>> well, we know anderson that scot peterson will join the hearing via zoom from prison, and the hearing really centers around this motion that his lawyers with the innocence project filed with the court. in that motion, they say that scot peterson has maintained his innocence for 20 years. and during that time, he's been working with investigators for years and has discovered what they call this substantial new evidence which you had actually referenced earlier. we don't know what that evidence is, but they say that it does support his claims of innocence. so there looking at the dna, they want some items tested again, retested, and then they also want some new items, new new items tested for dna, and they think that there's something there anderson that could prove his innocence. so we really don't know what to expect tomorrow. we know for sure that no doubt will see more motions filed, more hearings in this case before we know exactly if scott peterson will get a new trial. >> all right. randi kaye, thanks so much. that's it for us. the news continues to source with kaitlan. collins starts now see them wrong

>> good evening. >> i'm kaitlan collins, the source this coming to you live tonight from south florida where i just spoke exclusively with one of the central witnesses and one of the biggest cases, criminal cases i should note in american history, the trump classified documents case. until now, he has been known to the world as trump employee five as a mar-a lago valais in special counsel, jack smith's superseding indictment. he's referenced six times in it. he has never spoken out publicly until now. >> it always got brought up about biden and other people that did the same thing. and then there was one time he said we're all dirty, we all move boxes that is just one of the explosive things that brian butler told me about what one of trump's codefendants told him. >> he worked for donald trump

for two decades since he was just 19 years old. now at age 41 with his identity revealed, comes that incredible story. you're about. that's a here butler's take on how he says he unwittingly participated in the moving of boxes, which contains some of america's most delicate national secrets also, what he says he witnessed the possible obstruction of a federal investigation you are trump employee number five. you're a central witness in the classified documents investigation why are you speaking out publicly with your story now? >> well, i mean, it's it's been almost a year since fbi agents showed up at my house when my wife has at home and, you know, over the course of the last year, the emotionally it's been a roller coaster sure a couple of weeks ago with judge cannon says she's going to release the names of the witnesses you go from highs and lows in this and

instead of just waiting for it to just come out. i think it's better that i get to at least say what happened, then it coming out in the news, people calling me like crazy, i'd rather just get it out there. and the hope is at least i can move on with my life and get over this. >> having your whole life changed as a result of this, what was it like last summer to read through that superseding indictment and to realize you are trump employee number five i mean, i was out with my family out of town on vacation. i got a phone call from my attorney and he said, hey, they just arrested carlos and my heart just dropped time and i'm like, oh, my god, carlos de oliveira, who is not only the property manager at mar-a-lago, but well, my best friend, i mean, we used to talk every day. every day. i mean, we were always at least in some sort of contact >> and you had just seeing him a few days before that. >> think for days he was at my house. we played golf, we had a

great time and mustard shocked you too. >> you know it hurts. >> no contact since then >> and i should be clear. jack smith's investigators sought you out. how many times did you think you've have you talked to investigators now? >> a probably between 4.5 times. >> can we talk about what started all of this, which is the boxes, i mean, trump was clearly obsessed with these boxes at one point in the indictment, someone refers to them as his beautiful mind paper. >> what >> was known among the employees about about why he cared about these boxes so much for you guys. >> did you talk about them? >> i never talked about them. i really didn't even know what was going on until the investigation. i started reading in the news, employees were getting interviewed the indictment to june 3. he goes back home. he went back home. we had moved a bunch of stuff, the belongings, everything. >> that's when he's going from spinning his time in palm beach to spending his time in bedminster, new jersey that is correct >> so we are there to assist

with luggage, anything that needs to go to the plane. so in since i ran the car service, i had employees come to help with luggage and then we were going to bring it to the plane and then back up and then often new york, they went the other key thing about that is that was the day that his attorneys were meeting the fbi at mar-a-lago >> the day before one of his attorneys had gone in, searched the storage room, not knowing that walt nauta, the body man who is now a co-defendant, had been moving boxes in and out of that room the day before. did you know about that? >> no, i never do anything about that on june 3 walt had came up to me and asked me if he could use one of our escalates since i ran the car service, i pretty much kept control over the vehicles. i had loaded a bunch of the family luggage into a minivan and i was just going to drop private to the plane, loaded up and that's it. but during the us getting luggage, walt asked, hey, i need a minivan. sure. go ahead. and then he left and i

was i didn't think anything of it. it was a little odd the way he asked me. i mean, it's stood out now after all this but him and carlos were gone at that time and i didn't know because typically he wouldn't go get a vehicle, drive himself, and get luggage >> so it was unusual for him to make that ask of you? >> it seemed odd to me once i figured how everything went down the line, june, july, and august from what i learned, it kind of made sense. something was up, >> you weren't just pudding luggage on that plane that day. so >> i just had i only remember trump family personal luggage. >> and then >> what happened is walt left before me and he never goes directly to the plane. he's either in the motorcade when he goes there with the boss, which the former president and i remember telling him he left the club with i didn't know what he had in his vehicle, but he waited for me at a nearby

business and i told him i would tell him when i was leaving mar-a-lago so i left mar-a-lago. i texted him, hey, i'm on my way. >> he followed me. he pulled out and got behind me. we got to the airport. i ended up loading all the luggage i had and he had a bunch of boxes you noticed that he had been they were the boxes that were in the indictment. the white bankers boxes. that's what i remember loading. >> and did you have any idea at the time that there was potentially us national security secrets in his box and no clue no i had no clue. i mean, we were just taking them out of the escalate piling them up. i remember they were all stacked on top of each other and then we're lifting them up to the pilots. >> how many boxes was it? >> they asked me in the interview and i believe it was ten to 15 is what i remember. i know investigators. correct. >> and when you look back on that now, what i had no clue until probably the end of june, there's a few different things

that happen that kind of opened my eyes to something's going on here here >> you get that unusual request. did you ever think to yourself why were there so many boxes at mar-a-lago >> for me, i'm just thinking out of the former president and he has a lot of stuff he likes to lug around with them. i never would've thought it was anything like what we see on that day as you're loading helping load these these boxes unwittingly into the plane and handing them to the pilots. >> trump >> is back at mar-a-lago. >> and did >> you know that his attorneys were there that day? >> it's it's funny because i remember seeing this taller guy think, flick back silver hair. i think it was ever netanyahu, i now know to be evan corcoran and i saw a bunch of other people in the living room. >> i had no clue. i'm just seeing all these people. i have no clue what they're there for. i was on the cloister outside over by the bar. the former president was walking towards the living room like he was going to enter the living room. he was with secret service. i

remember he said hi to be hi bryan i'm mr. trump or president trump >> and then he went >> in and talk to them, but i had no clue who those people were. >> and it was evan corcoran, trump's attorney and members of the fbi, jay bratt, which i come to realize now, at the same time, he's going in there. the boxes are going from somewhere into a vehicle which are eventually going to the plane which i load with walt. >> do you ever remember seeing those boxes come back to mar-a-lago? >> i don't i do not >> and then in june, a little bit later, you get a call from carlos telling you that walt is coming to mar-a-lago was actually we we live literally 30 seconds from each other. >> your neighbors were neighbors. >> so we would always go walk and just on the walk, i remember him saying, hey, by the way well, it's come in tomorrow. >> oh cool, that's great i was like, okay wasn't until the following day when we're how walk and he's like, hey, by the

way, it's a secret. don't tell anybody waltz coming. >> and well, why >> well, he needs me, he needs me to find something out before he gets here. what's that? >> he needs to be done. you know, how long the camera footage is saved at mar-a-lago. and i'm like oh, that's that's odd. why why do you need the camera footage? why do you need to know how long it saved? and his response was, i think they're looking for somebody that was there said, oh, okay. i wonder who i have. >> so tells you that waltz coming that it's a secret that no one seems to know, and that they're looking to see along the surveillance footage goes back. >> that's what he needed to find out by the time walt got there. >> so >> that would seems really odd to me. and then not many days later when i receive a call from the corporate head of security at trump organization, thing, why didn't you tell me carlos moved boxes? i didn't really know he moved boxes. i never saw him move boxes on

june 3rd. i mean, i know now that that's what it looks like. what's going on him and what we're moving boxes and then he drove into the plane, but i had i had no clue why response was what did i move? did you see me on video moving something, but i guess he had gotten a call from the corporate attorney at trump organization and said saved this woody of video footage. and that's when he went the look at the footage and said why did you tell me carlos? i guess it's carlos was moving boxes >> this is really important. this moment about the surveillance footage because carlos has now been he was indicted in part for lying to federal investigators because he was having a conversation with another one of your co-workers about deleting that footage that trump had told him to have this server deleted did you in carlos ever have any other conversations about the surveillance footage? >> so sometime in august after the when i when i met with the

prosecutors, i said after the raid and they immediately correct me and said, well, lawfully executed search warrants. so after the lawfully executed search warrant i was on a cruise the day that mar-a-lago they showed up at mar-a-lago. i was going to a cruise and i had gotten a phone call. but when i got back like a couple of days from when i got back, i i reached out to a friend of mine who worked at another trump property and he said hey, by the way, your boys in trouble here, your boys in trouble, i'm like, what do you mean? and he's talking about carlos. carlos didn't do anything wrong. he's like, well, that's not what i hear. i heard he asked you seal to delete video footage and i said he would never do that. >> i mean you seals making that up. something's not right. so now i'm like something isn't jiving here and yuscil taveras is he was the it employee at mar-a-lago that in the indictment it says carlos had the conversation with about deleting the server. right. >> but that's the first i had

ever heard of. that is when a friend tells me that my friends and troubled basically. >> but when you started to think about the conversation you and carlos had about surveillance footage? and then you have this conversation. are you beginning to get suspicious? >> it's all like a puzzle in its little pieces here and there. and now i'm wondering, and i asked carlos, i said, did you say that to me? >> no. no, i didn't. i wouldn't i asked him about the video footage time for timing, and how long until it deletes. >> he denied to you that he had tried to correct. get it deleted? that is correct. >> but you gotta call from walt nauta after the search happened. >> what did he say to you >> so i was on the my waited my birthday weekend down at the hardrock and i think i texted him like, hey, i'm we'll talk at like in an hour, i was with people or something, so i called him back and he's like hey, someone just wants to make sure carlos is good. i take that as trump's wants to make sure carlos is so i reply.

listen, carlos is very loyal. he would not do anything to affect his relationship with the boss i've never seen him. he's never been happier on the job. i mean, he had a very close relationship with the former president. it was everybody saw it at the club. >> i >> mean, they were always interact. they would walk around the property. i mean so i told him no, there's there's carlos would not do anything to affect his relationship with the boss. >> why do you think you had to assure trump's body man? >> i really don't know. i i'm sure somebody i think the former president told walt to reach out to me. i don't know why. >> then did you later have to assure to anyone else that your friend carlos would be loyal to. >> the end of that call with walt? he told me it's like we're going to get carlos and attorney. >> it's like okay.

>> so i get to the hardrock are right around the same time and walt says they add me to a signal chat group with susie wiles. and he says something to the effect like brian just can you put in this chat what you just told me? >> so >> by its type it up, i say, hey a little weird to me, but listen, carlos is very loyal. he would not do anything to affect his relationship with the boss. he loves what he does. >> and you don't have to worry about to that, to that effect. >> and for those who don't know, susie wiles is running trump's 2024 campaign. and signal is an encrypted app where your messages disappear here, correct so walt nauta told you that they were going to get carlos and attorney. what happened after that? did he get a call >> so i'd say within 30 minutes, i think it was probably a lot sooner. i'm with carlos. we're at the hardrock

by the food court and his phone rings and it's the former president. he takes the call where we're standing in the food court. i think we went to sit down and he i can't remember how long the conversation was, but i know at the end of the conversation when they hung up, carlo said he's going to get me an attorney. >> did he tell you anything else that trump said to him? i >> didn't ask and i don't remember him saying anything else, but i was just told not that long two long before we're getting him an attorney by walt and then he gets the call that he's going to give them the attorney who's paying for your attorney. >> i i actually had reached out to counsel before anybody came to talk to me just so i was prepared i knew it was coming. i just had a feeling. but no, i paid for my own attorney. >> why was that important to you >> something like this? i think it's better to look after yourself and take care of it yourself. even the voicemail by the attorney that called me. he

says, i'm representing former president trump. >> hey, brian, good morning. my name is john rally. i'm one of the lawyers representing president trump. it's my understanding that you got a grand jury subpoena would you please give me a call at your first opportunities? >> did you ever call that attorney back? >> i sent it to my attorney and let him here handle it. >> were you feeling pressure to stay in trump's world, carlos, i were very close was previously reported. there was a golf tournament, carlos. oh, you let me get you tickets. let me or i'm sure the boss would love to see you. in my mind, i would not step foot in any of his properties that again the attorney i think there was a lot of pressure there deal it got brought up multiple times. he mentioned to me why didn't why didn't you call him back? it's going to cost you a lot of money. i mean, you should see my attorney bills that i get. it's thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. >> i said, i'm okay. okay.

i'm good to not only did you feel pressure to get an attorney, you are also being offered tickets and facetime with the former president. >> that's what he said. he said he loved to see you. >> well did carlos ever imply to you given your close friendship, i mean, the fact that your neighbors, you knew his wife, you guys have had decades of friendship. did he ever imply to you that he might be in trouble? >> he said everything will be fine. that kind of attitude. i never maybe a couple of times i saw him maybe a little nervous, but overall, i think he feels like this is going to go away. >> did the two of you ever talk about moving boxes or looking back on that? >> yeah. i mean, there was one time towards one of the last times i was with them and we're talking about boxes and while biden did the same thing, you can't get. it always got brought up about biden and other people that did the same thing and then there was one time he said, we're all dirty,

we all move boxes and i said, well, look, i didn't even know what i was moving until i was at the plane and that's when i remember moving boxes there's more, a lot more actually, butler describing at one point the lax security that he personally >> witnessed at the mar-a-lago club. and what he wants american voters to know about trump for november. >> that's next news night with abby phillip tonight at ten eastern on cnn >> so would you get to nashville hot tenders and three mandarin orange tenders >> what about you? three classic tenders? >> for big butterfly, srand for of a kind. i went, oh, okay. >> he said, always a competition. >> i am the shra'im bought for nearly a decade. >> i served in the navy supporting guilty. today, i run sabo outdoors with fellow special operations veterans. our mobile app connects customers with hunting,

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>> trump employee number five. in a moment, you'll hear brian butler described the lack of security that he says was protecting some of the nation's most classified military documents when you do, it's important to remember this though, the version that donald trump himself tries to sell >> we had these things luck. we were surrounded all the time by many secret service agents. we secret service, all of them are hello, you couldn't take anything out >> what we do know from court filings though, is that some 48,000 guests visited mar-a-lago while these documents were kept there, only a fraction, according to prosecutors, went through security keep those nerves in mind. is brian butler describes the reality inside mar-a-lago you know, the property really well. and one thing that we wrote about in the indictment that the prosecutor said was that essentially there were thousands of guests that had come through mar-a-lago in the period that the documents were there, where they're kept in all kinds of public places. i

mean, how secure would you say mar is >> well, i mean, there's been some very public instances of people sneaking on property look i think it's secure, but there were definitely a lot of gaps where people could get in very easily >> didn't who had access to the rooms where the documents were kept? >> i i don't know if a master key, but i mean, like i couldn't win and got a master key to all the rooms for check-ins. i ever saw all the check-ins with the valets, all of that so i mean, these oblique at night anybody could who made the call where these boxes were kept? >> the piezo in the pine hall was always guarded you didn't have to worry about any security breaches for pine hall, but definitely the lake room, which is pretty much above close to almost above pine hall. i mean, anybody could just go around the spiral staircase, turn left and there it is. >> anybody could access that

room? >> well, i'm sure you needed a key, but yeah. i mean, there were multiple ways to get to the lake room >> how many people how a queue if you had to guess, i'm assuming they didn't change. >> if they had the same lock. oh, my gosh but it probably over ten keys, 20 keys. i don't i mean, all the managers, kit kat, master keys. >> do you view trump as a national security risk >> i personally would just say i just don't believe that he should be a presidential candidate at this time. i think it's time to move on. >> does it concern you that i mean it should concern yeah, absolutely. i think we can do better. >> you're obviously a central witness in this case. if it goes to trial, are you prepared to testify? absolutely. yeah. absolutely. >> his attorneys are trying to get it pushed to pass the election. do you believe that this trial should happen before the election? >> i mean, i think the american people have the right to know the facts that this is not a

witch hunt. i mean, he can go on and tv and say this, that's one of the reasons for doing this and quote the pra says this and that i it's all bogus but people believe him >> you think it's a fair investigation? i absolutely. i mean to me, you have the law and order president attacking agents, the special counsel, on an almost a daily basis. when these people are just taking their sworn sworn oath, they took a sworn oath to basically follow the laws of this country. and now you have somebody attacking them. i don't think that's right. >> let's feel like you're choosing between loyalty to these. do you friends telling the truth >> absolutely. and there's no person that wants loyalty more than the former president. i mean, he says it all the time, given how other people who have

been in trump's orbit. and left and told the truth and how they've been treated, did it ever make you hesitate to know? >> look, i was always going to tell the truth but after one of the interviews with the justice investigators on this case, you know, i think it got real win at the and it was either my second or third fourth time talking to them where they said at the end of it, oh, by the way, all of your grand jury testimony and witness testimony has been turned over to the trump defense at that point, you're like boy you >> did it make you nervous? >> a little bit but, you know i don't want to live in fear. >> i mean, >> we're only here for finite time to me, i refuse to live in fear like that. i mean, yes, cautious. but i'm going to tell the truth >> and those investigators had actually encouraged you to not talk to carlos de they did did

they what were they worried about? do you think? >> i remember one time one of the members of the special counsel's team said, they worry about maybe he records you are maybe he's going to use stuff against you it was a tough time. i mean, i remember we were so close, so i remember he sent me a text one day after i had kind of avoided him and it's like you know, you never called me back. what did i do to you or something like that and it really it really hurt. i i literally said, are you home? and i went to his house and i said, look, i've been told really we need to keep our distance and i think is responses yeah, i know i know you've changed and this than that, but you know, i'm torn.

i'm trying to do what they say, but i'm also trying to be a friend to my best friend. and i'm not trying to hurt him by giving testimony or anything. i mean i mean, this is the thing i see. this guy has the former president is to divided the nation. like i've never seen before. and he's now divided like my best friends since i was 19 years old, almost we've been friends for so long and just think now you're just it's i don't know. it's just very it's sucks >> well, the two of you are so close and to go from having that into having it. now where you are, where you can't speak i may remember this you know, something that trump's attorney general, bill barr once said to me, which was that trump kind of leaves this path of carnage in his wake of the people around him that become wrapped up in these investigations. and scandals >> is that what you feel like?

>> i felt like it was a total no win situation for me. i mean they're asking me questions about my one of my best friends i'm being honest, but i also have a bad feeling that what i'm saying is getting him into trouble. it's just not nobody should have to go through that and, you know, for him to get out up there all the time and say the things he says about, you know, about this being a witch-hunt and everything. it's all it's just he just can't take responsibility for anything. >> it's really notable to hear this coming from you because you are someone who was loyal to him. you worked for him for forever, you know, him really well and so i just wonder, you know, that once this is public hill tried to distance himself from you or downplayed your role. how will you respond to that? >> no, i look, i expect nothing less. it's fine. i know the truth. i look, i'm not saying him and i were best friends and talked every day, but he knew who i was. i knew who he was. >> how do you view trump as a

person now? >> unfavorably would. be would be to put it easy, mildly, how important is it for you here to tell the truth? >> no. i mean, that's all we can do. i haven't tried to skirt anything with investigators or anything i just i feel it's the right thing to do. right thing for the country. this is so much bigger than me. it's bigger than carlos you know, this is a nation that needs to decide who's going to be the next president >> ahead more of our interview, including a disturbing story that trump employed by brian butler heard with his own here's what he says. donald trump told a foreign billionaire about classified information, plus a former trump defense secretary, and a former justice department attorney we'll break down these explosive details with us, right after a quick break

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>> i don't have to choose between a query helix and the grocery store >> closed captioning brought to you by mesobook.com our firm has offered a free book about mesothelioma for over ten years mesothelioma is really all we do. >> 80087 to 4901 our exclusive interview with brian butler offers really one of the deepest looks yet at the inner workings of >> mar-a-lago during the time that prosecutors say donald trump was seeking to hide classified documents from government investigators? >> i >> want to bring in donald trump's former secretary of defense, mark esper, and former federal prosecutor elliot williams to break what we've been listening to down on this remarkable interview and elliott, it's one thing to read these kind of vague details and an indictment with no names. but to hear brian butler talk about how unknowingly he was part of this effort to move boxes to trump's plane the day

that the fbi is meeting with trump's attorneys about getting these documents back at mar-a-lago. i just wonder what you believe that could mean for trump especially on the obstruction front of this case. >> look, that's the power of live testimony in court. you can read a tramp conscript, and certainly the same words might be the same, but hearing somebody who witnessed something saw something is immensely powerful for juries. and you have a witness that can act as i've heard it, called a tour guide to walk through the facts as they occurred at trial. so it's powerful yeah. >> and secretary esper, when you listen to this, obviously you're someone who was the pentagon chief as the time when donald trump was in office. and i want to just remind everyone what trump told me about these documents. >> has every right to under the presidential records act, just so you understand, i had every right to do it. >> i

>> didn't make secret of it. >> secretary, if you think that, you know, you're allowed to have these documents as trump is maintained for months now, why would they be moving them at the same time that the attorneys are there to meet with the fbi about the very documents that have not been returned to the federal government well, first of all, kaitlan, what, what's interesting about your interview was how casually of course, the documents were handled. boxes from the storage room, from the storage room to a business room. from business from the plane? >> they're >> just casually being carried around by people with no security clearances the boxes aren't marked according to what he said. and so it's just as casualness with highly sensitive information, which if you are in the pentagon, it would have to be in a scif, which is a secure compartmented information facility which is under locking key. it's alarmed, it's got special walls to prevent electronic

eavesdropping. i mean, i see you're showing pictures. it's kept casually, carelessly, recklessly in a bathroom. and as, you know, in an auditorium. and that's what kind of caught my attention. first of all, it's it's just more of the same but look, getting back to your question the only reason why you'd be moving documents around is is if you if you're trying to hide them from somebody, which of course undermines the president's argument that he was allowed to keep them, that he had declassified them and that they were his if he had properly declassified them, then he wouldn't need to move them around and keep them out of the eyes of lawyers of the fbi, whoever it conducted searches >> elliot, the other part that stuck out, what was about the surveillance footage and what brian butler witness to that degree, which he described it like a puzzle that he was only really able to kind of put it together after the fact and after he he saw the indictment and saw what these things that he was privy to really showed.

and the fact that he was getting calls. and they were just trying to look to see how long the surveillance footage server kept that footage, which we now know they stand accused of attempting to delete that footage. the other two the two co-defendants in this case yeah. >> kaitlan, we've been doing quite frankly, been talking about this case. i think seven or eight months now. and a point that i've made before is that the obstruction charges are some of the most damning the. president trump, is facing even to some extent, far more than some of the documents charges, which can be hard to prove, depending on the nature of the documents, what you have here are individuals who number one knew that an active investigation was going on. and number two, took affirmative steps to conceal records in connection with with that investigation that is on its face, pretty plain obstruction of justice and with a witness that can testify as to number one, what he saw. a number two, what he heard about like we were saying a little bit earlier in the segment that has a certain kind of power that

transcripts even photographs simply do not >> secretary, that's what i've seen some former prosecutors talk about, maybe the risk here and having a witness, certainly a central witness come forward and speak, but i think it's important to remind people that brian butler is one risk of his name being exposed anyway, because trump's legal team is is fighting to have the names of witnesses released publicly before that goes to trial. but two, he's concerned that it may never make it to trial and he feels that voters have a right to know this information, to know what he saw before they actually cast their ballots in november, what did you make of that? >> yeah good for him, that he is taking that perspective. really a macro perspective of what's at stake. i think the reporting has been that he expected it would be at trial by now. i think many did it originally, if i recall a date was possibly around may at this point in time, i think it's been pushed off, although the jack smith and his team want to

wanted to be held this summer in july, but, you know, part of the trump team's team's strategy on all of cases to push them off, keep pushing them off until after the election. and as we know from polling, if you look from the political side not to legal cyber, from the political side, we know that there is a segment of the republican base of likely republican voters who said that if trump is convicted they won't vote for him. that that will make a difference for them. so i think all these legal and political factors are in play right now, which is arguably a reason why he decided to come forward >> secretary s for elliot williams. thank you both for joining tonight >> thank you. let me up here on the >> source more of that exclusive interview with the longtime mar employee, brian butler, will talk about whether he ever witnessed donald trump carelessly throwing around those national security secrets at the secretary reference there. one very vivid story came to mind involving this foreign billionaire on the

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to europe to >> in our exclusive interview tonight, the former mar-a-lago employee who worked there for two decades, brian butler told me what he says are other secrets that he believes former president trump, that he overheard for president trump was discussing with pratt >> were there ever any instances when >> you were still working there that you witness for trump was in your view, carelessly throwing around national security information >> you know that it's really, you know stood out to me, but i believe it was april of 2021 there was a member, anthony pratt, who he was coming. he he flew in the night before. >> he's an australian billionaire he finishes his meeting with the former president, gets in the car and his cheapest half says, how did

the meeting go? pratt without saying just says he told me and it would be us military classified information of what he told them about russian submarines and us submarines and that's really all i remember hearing and i went what i'm thinking this i'm in the car. i'm like that. i just hear that. so it wasn't like oh, the meeting went well, we talked about it was he went straight to the point he told me that the us subs and with the russian subs and, you know, something that would prompt more than likely in my mind be classified. >> so it was clear to you that he was basically seeking access to absolutely. absolutely i've been a red flags went up in my mind years before that. >> so anthony pratt, this i'll show him bullying or that you're talking about >> he would >> pay a lot of money to come and have these new year's eve party it might cost $11,500 per

person. he was giving $1 million >> and i think at the height, he had 30 or 40 people there so something that would be 50,000, let's just say max 50 here's a guy that's just buying access. it's very easy to see a stunning revelation from trump employee five, brian butler about that disclosure of >> classified information at trump's mar-a-lago club. i want to bring in cnn's senior crime and justice reporter, caitlin poland. we broke this story together. she is my reporting partner in crime and kaitlan, it's great to have you here just to talk about that moment specifically where he was talking about what he overheard anthony pratt discussing with another staff are about what he heard from trump and just speaks to this entire investigation in the classified documents aspect of it, but also just the willy nilly nature that the classified information was apparently treated with a mar-a-lago that's exactly

right. >> kaitlan, brian butler in that interview, he's he's talking about a specific moment in the car with anthony pratt where prac comes out and that's the first thing on his mind that he shares with his chief of staff and with butler, the trump told him about nuclear submarine secrets and russia and that is not just an anecdote that we should care about because it's about classified information potentially or secret information. it's putting his finger on why cases like this are charged. >> and >> if you look at all of these filings that prosecutors make in this case when they're arguing to the judge about why this case should go to forward for trial. why this case has been charged. they talk about the mishandling of classified records potentially in the wrong hands and in front of the wrong people that it jeopardizes national security. that's what's important thank you >> we know anthony pratt has spoken to investigators kaitlan. you obviously know this case better than anyone standby because i want to get

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the flavor. the future of sodas now, it's called poppy news night with abby phillip. next on cnn closed, captioning is brought to you by audio book network. tell your story, produce an audio book with us. >> what earn more profits and find a new audience for your published book, produce an audio book. we handle narration production, and digital distribution. >> color scan, the qr code. now back now on the source, cracking the mystery of who is trump employee number five, and bringing you an exclusive interview like ours tonight. doing that requires a team and

i could not have done it. we could not have done it without my friend and my colleague, kaitlan pull into his bid on this case. since the beginning, and kaitlan, you knowing what you know about this investigation and how it's progressed, and what we've learned about all the people that the special counsel's office has talked to what stands out to you about brian butler the most it and his central role in so many aspects of this >> kaitlan. brian butler is not going to be the only person it's been called to testify at this trial. they're going to be a lot of people that would be on the witness list to flesh out different aspects of the story, prosecutors will want to present to a jury about donald trump and these classified he records. but the area that he flushes out the most and it's so striking when he tells his story. and in the way that the indictment describes him as trump employee five is the he's the window into the alleged cover up he's the one that hears the call trump makes to carlos about getting him an attorney. he's the one who is hearing from carlos de oliviera about walt nauta as interest in

surveillance tape all of that pieces and aspect of this together that makes this such an important criminal case. it's not just about what happened to the documents after trump left the presidency there's this obstruction angle to it that really sets it apart. and so you're likely to hear from him on the witness stand but that is what he's doing, his piecing together, not what trump was doing, waving around the document investment bedminster, he wasn't there for that. but he can tell you about the conspiracy down the line or the alleged the alleged conspiracy against walt nauta, carlos de oliveira. and of course, trump at the time top he also mentioned there at the beginning when we you and i first sat down with him about judge cannon and this effort that is underway to >> reveal the witnesses does that could be called to testify? >> i mean, that's a big part of why >> he is coming forward now >> yeah. kaitlan, we are waiting to see what judge

cannon does there. if she does want to reveal witness names, it is a possibility she has already said she was interested in doing that, but one thing happening here is the trial date that's the other thing hanging over this case. it's been 11 days since she visited that with the attorneys. when will this trial be? will it be scheduled before the election? we don't have an answer yet. we're going to be in court with her again on thursday, watching the parties and to see exactly what the judge here does for the trial. >> katelyn polantz, no one else. i would rather break some news with a dual reporting wood. thank you for this amazing team effort >> thank you. >> and thank you all so much for joining us for this exclusive interview here tonight on trump employee number five, we'll continue to monitor the fall of that and watch closely to see what judge cannon decides if she decides to trial date here. in the meantime, cnn newsnight with abby phillip starts right now