i adam lazarus is an author specializing in nonfiction books featuring iconic and compelling figures in american history, including chasing super bowl monday, best of rivals and hail to the redskins as gibbs the

diesel the hogs and the glory days of disease dynasty. he holds a bachelor's degree in english from kenyon college and a master's degree in professional writing from carnegie mellon. please give a warm welcome to adam lazarus. thank you very much for having me. as you just heard, i'm a nonfiction from atlanta, georgia, with few sports history books out in the last years. but i want to tell you about my latest book, which in some ways is a sports history book, but about a lot more than that. as you heard from no doubt from the title there, two main figures in my book, the john glenn, ted williams. i want to open up and give you a little bit of on both of them. so who was john glenn. john glenn was born in cambridge ohio on july 18th, 1921. he was a marine corps fighter pilot in two wars, world war two

and the korean war. he flew a 147 combined missions, received 18 air medals and six distinguished flying crosses. he later became a military test pilot at patuxent river naval air station in maryland he helped create, conceive and execute something called project, which i'll tell you about a little bit later. he was one of the first american astronauts part of the mercury program, became the first american to orbit the earth in february of 1962. he later became the united states senator from the state of ohio, serving four terms and in 2012, he received the presidential medal of freedom from president barack obama. here's a photo of john glenn receiving his medal of freedom. but i want to give a little more background on john glenn's military career or major glenn, as he was known during the korean war. john glenn enlisted in the navy's v5 aviation cadet program march of 1942. he actually in the army air force program, but they didn't call him back in a couple of weeks later. he decided to stop at a navy recruiting station. and so history might have been a little bit better, might have

been a little bit different if the army air force had called him back. he earned his marine corps pilot's wings in march of 1943. he flew 57 combat missions in the marshall islands for vmm f 155 between 1944 and 1945 during world war two, his after the war, he earned his career marine commission in march of 1946 and spent the next several years serving at a variety of bases across globe in china, guam and texas and virginia. during his time at quantico in virginia, the korean war broke out and he was not sent to service. he was absolutely just apoplectic that he wasn't being sent to service during the korean war. he pleaded with his superiors to be sent and be given combat orders eventually writing months of letters to superiors. they told him to stop writing letters, but we'll send you to war anyway. so he received his orders for the korean war in the fall of 1952, and he arrived in early february 1953, at pohang at k3 a base in pohang south korea. there's a photo of john glenn

the day he left for service in the korean war with his wife and two children. david and lynn was, really interesting about this photo as it was taken port columbus airport in columbus, ohio, not far from john glenn's hometown, about a little more than 60 years later, port columbus airport was renamed john glenn international airport. the other main figure in my book is ted williams. so who was ted williams ted williams was born in san diego, california, on august 30th 1918. he played left for the boston red sox from 1939 to 1960. he was 19 time all star. he's probably best remembered for being the last man to hit 400. he had 521 home runs, won two most valuable player awards to triple crowns. he was elected to the baseball hall of fame in 1966. he later became manager of the washington senators and texas rangers a few years. he often said that his one goal in life was to be able to walk down the street, have people say, there goes the greatest hitter that ever lived. a little bit more on that later. he too, received his presidential medal of freedom in 1991 from president george h.w. bush, a photo of him receiving

his presidential medal of freedom from president bush. and first lady barbara bush. but a little more on ted williams background or captain ted williams. he was known during the korean war ted williams, enlisted in the navy's v5 aviation cadet program in may of 1942, just two months after john glenn, he earned his. two years later, he mostly was an instructor at pensacola's naval air station in florida. he did not serve in combat during world two, actually played a little bit of baseball, played outfield for a tune called the bronson bombers, a team in the naval air training, auxiliary bases, baseball circuit after world war two, he was discharged to the volunteer reserves. he promptly returned to playing baseball for the red sox, helped lead them to their first pennant in over 30 years, almost 30 years in 1946, won the mvp that year, but he was recalled to active service in the marine corps in january of 1952, at the age of 34, after doing all he could to get out of serving in combat again during the korean war, he finally realized he was going to have to go abroad and

serve. so they celebrated ted williams day at fenway park on april 30th, 1952, fittingly at a home in his final at bat, he promptly left, fenway park began retraining at a couple of different bases across the united states, learning to fly jets he had only flown propeller planes, mostly the f for u corsair world war two. and this was the beginning, the jet age. so he had a lot of catching up to do. he trained on a couple of bases and eventually was given combat orders. and he arrived. k3 pohang south korea, february third, 1953. just six days before john glenn is a photo in his hut they lived in these small tropical huts were actually from there were left over from world war two and they were for the tropical climate. and if you know anything about the climate in north and south korea in february, it was freezing cold. so these tropical huts didn't much protection from the warmth and. there were three men to these tiny little huts and were stacked next to each other. this is ted williams, his tropical hut. the one next door to his was was john glenn. so they weren't roommates, but they were neighbors.

i've been on a book tour the last months talking about this book, the wingman, and rather than just keep talking at length about book itself. i thought i'd share with you of the frequent questions i got astro in the course speaking at book festivals, on the radio and podcasts and things like that the first question i get asked most often is. where did the idea for this book come from? and it's very simple. it comes from this, which is inside the book photograph appeared on a twitter account about three years ago on veterans day. it's a baseball twitter account that shows photos of lou gehrig and willie mays and mike schmidt and on veterans day a couple of years ago, they decided to dedicate that day's post to baseball players that served in the military and. someone and the author of the the count posted this photo with a simple tagline something like did you know that during the korean ted williams served as john glenn's wingman and i am huge baseball history fan. i grew up knowing all about ted williams statistics and 406 so

my family visited cooperstown every year so i knew all about baseball history. i knew all about ted williams. this is actually a photo, that image of tedilliams was a poster put out produced by upper deck, the early nineties that actually hung on my bedroom bedroom wall as a kid. so knew a lot about ted williams. and conversely, i'm ohio. you don't grow up in ohio without knowing who john glenn is and my dad who is a big naca history space program fan used to sit me and my down to watch the right stuff as kids even though we didn't really understand it. and so i knew all about john glenn and so i knew a lot about both these men, and i had no idea about this connection. it turns out they flew combat missions together. they were part of a very small fighter squadron, both 25 pilots go in the air at a time only 40 pilots were in the squadron the time. and so i thought it was actually very remarkable to learn about this connection. and i did my research and did some reading and yeah they flew missions together some very interesting, harrowing including one in which ted williams crash landed. and this is all in the book.

but at the time i didn't know if there was a book there. i thought it was a very interesting story and. it was something that john glenn covered in his autobiography. and when ted williams died, reporters wrote about it in his obituaries. but i learned more about their friendship that had spanned decades, weren't best friends. they didn't spend summer vacations together with their kids playing in the front yard and going doing barbecues together. but had this friendship that lasted sort of ebbed and flowed over the decade and when i found this story that when john glenn back to space in october of 92, you probably remember at the age of 77 years old, 36 years after friendship seven, he went back to space. and one of the people he drove first, people he told about the mission was ted williams. he drove to his house in florida personally said, i want you to be there ted williams wasn't in very good health. he was in a wheelchair he'd had three strokes, but he wasn't to miss john glenn's return to space. so it was sort a heartwarming story about friendship to me when glenn actually launched up in his discovery shuttle, ted

williams was rising out of his wheelchair from the launch pad at cape canaveral. i thought it was a great story. he was going was bragging all about how he knew john glenn and served with him. and this photo here is, actually, they had a welcome home party for john glenn when he returned from his eight days in space. he was in cocoa beach, florida, and one of the first people to greet him, greet him there was ted williams and this is a photo of them seeing each other after. john glenn's first time returning to space another. i get asked is what is the title of the book mean? people who know their military aviation or any kind of aviation probably what a wingman is, but in the marine corps during this time in the korean war, squadrons were made up of groups of sections and a section is comprised of a leader and his wingman and the leader leads and the wingman follows. and whatever the leader does, the wing man's job is to respond. and john glenn long he ever met ted williams was writing a report for his superiors after the world war two. but before korea, he said in his report, the wing man's first and primary duty ahead of everything else is to stick with his

section leader. so in the marine corps, during this time in the korean war, the leader always a career marine, someone who had much more experience, had had combat training, combat experience, someone like john glenn and the wingman was often a reservist, either was very young and didn't have experience or was a reservist and hadn't flown in years. ted williams so after a while john glenn and ted williams got paired together as a whole story about how that happened, it's in the book. but john glenn was the leader and ted williams his wingman. but there's another definition of wingman which i think maybe a younger crowd knows sort pop culture definition about maybe guys in a bar helping one of them helping his buddy talk to a talking.t he has no business webster's described it as a male friend or partner who accompanies and supports a man in some activity. and if you read the book, i think you'll see that john glenn ted williams, the sean glenn's wingman during the korean war in the air and combat during service. but later in life, particularly when ted williams really later in the early 2000s he was dying was in the hospital in san diego

and in florida. john glenn was by his side several times calling him, visiting him in the hospital. and i came to understand and this in the book that towards the end of their friendship john glenn was ted williams wingman people who know a lot about either man and especially about both men would be probably to learn about ted williams john glenn's. they were total opposites every way ted williams was loud. he was kind of a handsome guy with long, wavy hair. he was very conservative. his big supporter of the nra, republican big friend, good friends with richard nixon, even helped get both george bush's elected president. he was married and divorced. three times. he didn't have very good relationship with his children. he never met a four letter word. he didn't use very often and everything i just said was pretty much the complete opposite of john glenn. john glenn was married to the same woman for 73 years who he knew since they were together in a playpen he two children who he absolutely adored he was a

devout presbyterian. williams was something of an atheist or agnostic. he was a republican. john glenn was a democrat. maybe not the most liberal democrat, but he was a democrat and they were polar opposites in every way, whether it was their politics, their worldview, their religion, the way they had handled their personal life and their family. so friendship is very as the of the book suggests, unusual. so how did they become friends? and the simplistic separation is that they served together in this war and. there is this band of brothers mentality, a photo of them discussing some maneuvers or some situation on the runway at their base in korea. so i think their friendship was born of their service together. and if you read the book, see that they had at least one very harrowing mission. it was their first mission together, john glenn believed it was going to result in his court martialed. so their friendship had something of a baptism by fire. so that's how their friendship and these are just some details of their missions together. this one mission i outline here

where these stars on map indicate where their targets were and, the circled area in red there, the details of a mission that mission that wound up with john glenn, he was going to get court martialed. but what i learned was their friendship grew out some similarities and most people wouldn't understand and wouldn't recognize. and this book, i think, help outlines that ted williams was absolutely obsessive everything he did hitting baseball, fishing, hunting flying an airplane, all of his passions was if you've ever picked up his book the science of hitting, which came out in 1971, which players still read and is still a part of baseball training lore is so and academic and tech basically too complicated for a layman to understood. i understand half of it talks about the cosine and the angle and he breaks down the swing rip hip rotation elbows and rotation. he was obsessed about the

details and even his manager said later, one of the things that made him a great hitter was not just his batting practice and understanding the game, but he obsessed about how tight his shoes were and has his shoe laces and he broken his jerseys in his pants weeks ahead and broken bad months ahead time because he was so obsessed with the details and fine tuning everything. and that's exactly how john glenn went about his military career is nascar career, his time in the senate was actually something that hurt his political career. he was obsessed with the details, writing bills and particularly arms treaties was very active in developing the assault to arms treaty. and it really irritated a lot of his fellow senators because he slaved over the details, the the mundane, the nuances of things that most people probably overlooked and. i think this is something that maybe it's not something they talked about, but i think it was a sensibility shared and that they they understood one another that way. and the other thing that i came to understand how john glenn and ted williams grew in the years after the korean war. ted williams was really a

national figure. at the age of 23, he joined the boston red sox about age 20. he was probably their best hitter right away. he was other. than joe dimaggio. he was the best player in baseball. and very early in his career. and he was a national figure he was certainly a big figure from the day he joined boston red sox in the massachusetts in new england area. but he was on the cover of life magazine at age 23. this is this photo here is of him on the cover of life magazine. so for the next about 60 years, he couldn't walk down street without peleanting an autographr otograph or to shake his hand or to talk to. so he understood what it meant to be in the spotlight all the time. for john glenn, it was a little different. really didn't become a national figure until he joined the nascar program, particularly, he returned from his three orbits in space. he was 41 years old at the time, but here's a photo of him on the cover of life magazine, and that's sort of the way his life changed forever. and he was a national figure for the next 50 or 60 years because of his service and aca. and i think they both understood they belonged to the public.

john glenn's daughter told me one time that they were in africa. many years after the friendship seven mission in a small village. it didn't have a lot of electricity, no television, very little news. and even they recognized there. so neither one of these men could step out of their house without being being having the spotlight shown to them. now, how they handled that was a completely different story did not get along with his fans to not get along with the press. i think he did not like being in the spotlight. john glenn turned down a handshake in an autograph and he was certainly a man of the people. but i think it was something that they really saw well, in one another. this common thread i'm often asked what type of research i did for this book and a lot has been written about both men john glenn and ted williams ted williams, wrote an autobiography came out in 1969, told his whole life story up until the time he was about 40 years old. 50 years old. but many other biographies have been written about him full length, 800 page biography by ben bradlee junior out a couple of years ago.

that was very helpful. me same thing with john glenn. he wrote an autobiography towards the end of his time in the senate several books have been written about john glenn's career and his life. you know, newspaper articles, articles and those were all good for understanding the structure of the story. but i was able to cover uncover a lot of very original archives and details. one of them was i collected two or 300 letters written by people serving in the korean war at the base that john glenn and ted williams served. some of them were written by pilots who served with john glenn ted williams writing home, telling their families, oh, i saw ted on the base today. i flew this mission with ted williams that helped me understand the life over there. what ted williams celebrity was like. i also was able to get about 20 or 30 letters john glenn wrote home to his wife annie and his children the war and then helped again paint of the details about their missions and, what life was like over in the base and. ted williams wrote ten or 15 letters to his mistress during the korean war, and i was able uncover those.

so all these firsthand details of what they were thinking. when i go forward this is actually a letter to jn enn wrote home toife in may of 1953, ted flew my wing this morning and was all bubbling over when we got back. what a character kind of summed up john glenn's impression of ted williams some of the other neat archives that i uncovered were command diaries or unit diaries from the korean war marine fighter pilot, the squadron they were in, they kept very meticulous notes of every mission. what planes flew, what pilots flew, what targets they attacked, what weaponry they were carrying, who the missions, whether it was successful. they hit targets. there was a crash, anything like that. so those were really useful for me to what happened on every mission ted williams and john glenn flew. but the missions, they flew together and actually, i was really fortunate to hundreds of pages of navy and marine corps personnel files of glenn and ted williams ted williams underwent some serious health problems during his time the korean war, and these declassified mirroring

marine corps and navy files helped me piece together what was going on with ted williams. so those were all really neat archives, but the best resource i had for at least the korean war time was was able to interview three pilots who flew with both john glenn and ted williams in the korean war. they were still alive. they were in their late nineties, they had very colorful details and colorful and shared a lot of their unvarnished opinions. one of them that really did not like t williams very much. and all those details are in the book. but one of them was a man named woody woodbury, was very inresting. he was a cedian he had some success in hollywood. he hosted one of the talk shows, one of the game shows that johnny carson hosted that he left to go host the tonight show when left, woody woodbury took over he had some gold albums in the sixties, comedy albums he and i had many conversations. this is a photo of him in the middle during his service in the korean war on the left is a photo of him attending a birthday for ted wilams many years after the korean and on the right is a photo of him with

john glenn at some kind of event the mid sixties. so talking to woody woodbury and a couple of the other people who were actually on missions with ted williams and john glenn was a really great resource for me to recreate these images of these two men flying missions together because i'm a sportswriter by nature and a big history fan, there is a lot of baseball history in the book on later part portions of his career, sort of the post korean war years of his baseball career. and i have been asked i mean on podcast, this baseball sports podcast is ted williams the greatest of all time. there are other claimants, babe ruth, everybody here knows would would certainly be considered the greatest home run hitter, arguably the greatest hitter of all time, barry bonds, who steroid aided made a lot of recos d broke t he run record and actually broke a lot of ted williams records for walks and on be percentage or to theouer fans like my kids, maybe who wouldn't know their baseball history.

someone like shohei ohtani you know plays for the dodgers, lots of other clemens through baseball history of who was the greatest hitter of all time. but i want to make the case for ted williams. ted williams, in his rooki season in 1939, hit 31 home runs. he was 20 years old, hit 31 home runs, hit 327, had 5 rbi, which is far still the record for any rookie baseball history. he had 4 in 1941, the last man to hit 400. and no matter anybody tells you, no one has come anywhere near close to surpassing or reaching 400 in the years and the 80 some years since. and not tony gwynn, george brett, not rod carew, the long way from 400. ted williams. and this is his most remarkable achievement opinion. he had three 8816 years later in 1957, at the age of 39 years old, he's still oldest man to played all of baseball and hitting. he had a career average of 344 which is third highest of all time. and the of anyone born in the 20th century at 521 homeruns when he retired it was the third most he won two triple crowns.

he missed a third by mere percentage points in the batting crown raised i1949. he six batting titles he would have won seventh if not for that mere percentage point winwo mvp's. he really should have won five, but he didn't get along with the sportswriters to the more modern, sensible fans. his career ops which on base percentage plus slugging percentage was 1.16 second only to babe ruth. and of course he missed five full seasons during his service in the korean war and world war two. he may have hit 700 homeruns. he may have hit more than 714, which was babe ruth's record for many years, had he not five years in the war. so was ted williams greatest hitter of all time? i think glenn would say yes. and conversely, i make case in the book that john glenn is the greatest aviator of all time, or at least in american history. and i'm still for a very angry email, someone or someone to come and tackle me in the parking lot after one of these talks to tell me how wrong i am about. that largely because there are

other claimants just as well, someone like charles lindbergh compled e famous transatlantic flight in 1927. i also helped the american miliryviation during world war two a great deal. chuck yeager in 1947 broke the speed sound barrier foughin world war two korea and helped out in vietnam or someone like ilrmstrong, who was a great korean war pilot, navy test pilot, and of course the first man to walk on the moon. but i want to make the case for john glenn is the greatest aviator all time in world war two. he flew 57 combat missions two distinguished flying cross seven air medals during his two years in the air islands, just during his time with marines in the korean war, he had received four distinguished flying crosses, 11 air medals, led many missions during his time there at the end of the korean, he went on temporary assignment with the air force, which iseally a dream for any marine corps pilot to fly, something called the f-86 saber jet, which was much perior to f9's panther. he was flying with the marines

and was in june of 1953. the war at the end of july. he really start flying missions until late june. 53. and in a ten day spanish shutdown, three soviet migs. you need five to become an ace. he have been just the second marine corps ace during the korean war the minute the war ended and he didn't have a chance to get those two more. in 1954, he returned, became a navy test pilot, and he broke something called the in jet record. it was it was an unofficial record at time. they were trying to see how fast pilots could climb to 10,000 feet. he went to an air show in ohio one day and someone broke the world record for this thousand reaching 10,000 feet in the air and someone done it and i think 2 minutes and 7 seconds he saw that. he said, i can break that. he went out in his jet the next day, in one minute and 59 seconds. that was just if, you know, try to take away anything from john glenn. that was john glenn a couple of years. he conceived and designed and then executed something called project bullet, which was the

first transcontinental supersonic flight history. he flew from southern california to brooklyn, new york, in 3 hours and 23 minutes, which meant he supersonic speed. no had ever done that record before. and it was a real marvel of modern aviation and it was really all his idea and it required three midair refueling over three cities across the globe, across the states. it was a very difficult and harrowing assignment for him, but it was part of his nature and he achieved it. it's one of the things that really got him on radar of nasa when they were choosing nasa's in the late fifties and helped him get on their radar and become one of the first seven mercury astronaut. and again, five years after that, he went aboard friendship seven three orbits around the earth. first american to do so really got us back in the space race against the soviets. and then, as i mentioned, 36 years later, project stars 95. the discovery he went on board and this not some space tourist cruise like we see today people going up into space for 15

minutes and just being aboard for the ride. john glenn spent eight days in space as a working on this mission as eight days at age 77 years old. he was something of a human guinea pig getting blood taken every 10 minutes and monitoring sleep. but he he achieved that. my favorite john glenn statistic was he learned he really learned his pilot's license in the summer of 1941 before the bombing of pearl harbor and his enlistment in, the navy. and he really didn't stop flying until he was 90 years old. two 2011, when his insurance carrier finally said no more, he he continued for four years, he piloted his own beechcraft baron from home in maryland when he was serving in the senate to home in ohio when he was on when the senate was in recess or in the home they owned in colorado just the image of 89 year old john glenn flying cross-country, annie and in the seat next him 70 years of flying that clinches it for so i think ted williams that agree was john glenn the greatest aviator of all time. i think he would say yes.

i just want to give my great thanks to the savannah book festival for having me and for all you for for listening. and i'd be more than happy to take some of your questions. so my husband's a naval aviator. i'm sorry. my husband. a naval aviator. oh, okay. so he's best and i am curious, in any of your books have any of the family members of your subjects asked you not to write the book or refuse to assist you in any way? that's a great the aside from a few sort of smaller characters in my other books, this is the first book that i've done where the principles no longer alive and. i was very fortunate. i'm not sure i could done the book without john glenn's two

children. his daughter and his son were very and very helpful and they didn't give me unfettered, constant access, but they were supportive and they knew i was telling the story in many ways of what a hero their was. so that was four for the john glenn side of the book, i was very fortunate that they did not ask me that ted williams had three children that were, you know, sort of sole remaining family members. only one of them is still alive. i was able talk with her. she wrote her own book about what it was like to be ted williams daughter, but not a lot about the john glenn friendship or really his time in the military. so, you know, this was a new angle when you're writing about people who have had many biographies or books or lengthy magazine articles, biopics or documentaries about, them. it's hard to do that without just retelling the same story over and over again in this book, in a way, was shedding new light on both these men. it was largely focused on, their military career and this

friendship, because it was sort of covering new territory. i think they were. you know, that's an interesting angle of the story. so they were supportive of it that way. and when you go on a mission, this what do you how you begin and get into the archive. and if you're fortunate to have people that are alive. gentlemen, earlier was talking i was writing a book on people have been dead for a couple of hundred. so how do you go about getting with the family, getting the archive, the pictures, put it all together and then you got to start writing it? yes. well, once you have idea and you know, you structure how the book's going to come out and what things you to pursue and what pieces of research you need to uncover getting the family cooperation is always, you know, someone like that or getting it's a big interview i've done, you know, some other sports books. i did a book on joe montana and, steve young, famous football players, just getting to them, getting in front of them to say, hey, i'm writing this book about you. i want to do an interview is always challenging.

it usually requires groveling and calling in a lot of favors, and that's sort of how it happened with. getting in touch with the glenn family, ted williams daughter. but fortunately, at least for john glenn and i told this to, his daughter, i said, i hope i don't mean to offend you. after when he had one of our conversations, i said, were your parents like pack rats? are they hoarders? and she started laughing. she said that was mom and dad because not when they died, but when john glenn realized he was getting up in age and had already retired from the senate. he started to donate much of his archives to the ohio state, and he helped found a school there, the john glenn school of public affairs. and over time, they collected virtually every piece of paper he ever encountered in his entire life. there. probably 5 million pages of fliers and documents and orders and times the senate briefings and photographs awards. he received hundreds and hundreds of banker's boxes are in storage at the ohio state university. and i was able to go through

those and just the korean war stuff. there were, you know, boxes and boxes, the things he saved the menus he received from restaurants. he went to while an r&r in korea brochures from the silk factories that he went to. so he saved everything. so it was not hard. and i developed a good relationship with the ohio state people. it was not hard to request things and they have tremendously and cataloged. so i would just say, you i need box 118 dash one, dash 2-a would you send this and that was it was very fortunate this is during so they were good about you know scanning and emailing me many things. so that was the best way to get. archives, first hand archives from john glenn, ted williams was a little bit more challenging because a lot of his archives, he didn't keep the of records in archives that ted that john glenn did but the baseball hall of fame had a lot of his stuff. and as i mentioned earlier, i filed a freedom of information requests, mostly with the navy and the marine corps.

and they sent me hundreds of pages of his personnel files. there's also something called the korean war project, started by a father and son, have cataloged every squadron and unit and every branch of the military during the korean war. and they have that source. so it was easy for me to access so a lot of different avenues and then yeah for the people the three pilots who i was able to track down i you know people were interested in their stories. the articles had written about them in the marine corps leatherneck magazine. so i tracked them down and people were it's something i've learned during the course of writing these five books is that if you tell people you're writing about them and it's not a hit job. and it's you're telling a new angle. they're usually pretty open to talking about it, talking about their past, and sharing their history. because does don't forget, there's another side to ted

williams i'm sure you have some internal information about that kind of tender heart. you read the book, maybe teammates. so maybe you could just talk a minute about that other side of ted williams sure. ted williams reputation and i've been asked many times by people was as big a jerk as people said, and i on some days, yes, he was as big a jerk as people said. but i what i learned him over the course of writing this book was that he had a terrible temper. he didn't get along with. he could be cruel and mean some days, but he had a big heart. he cared about people. there are stories his daughter told me this and i've heard other stories he would hear about an old ballplayer played that he knew he was never a big who couldn't pay his medical bills or wasn't was having trouble paying his mortgage or rent. he got the person's and he'd put a check in there or cash. so it was anonymous. he went out of his way to help people all the time. and if you know your boston

history, he was instrumental, helping expand something called the jimmy fund, which is a cancer research center in boston for children. it's that how it's helped thousands of young children from cancer over the decades. and he did everything he could whether it was financially of own money or helping raise money or appearing events or just visiting them in the hospital, spending time with them, donating things, he had a big heart, cared about people and he was rough around the edges and he said the wrong thing at times. someone told me a story that he went to with some friends and family and they just got tired of of everything and walked out in the middle of the meal, didn't check. and that's kind of sums up ted williams is but there's these stories about him where it's clear that he cared about people. and i think i developed a good amount of respect for him. and i think i don't know if it's something john glenn ever really thought about or in him, but there's a probably the the centerpiece of the book is section. later in the book, when is being honored by the jimmy fund boston

in 1988 and they had this event him to celebrate his it was sort a it was sort of a half celebration of he had done for the jimmy fund and a half birthday party for him that the public was invited to and john glenn was one of the six or seven speakers there and think john glenn that that if you didn't already know saw something ted williams about how big his heart was and how much cared for other people and gave back to his community there. there's also a story not to get too far into history, but the -- league players didn't get their attention and the color barrier wasn't broken until 1947. and when ted williams gave his induction speech at the baseball hall of fame in cooperstown. in 1966, he used part of his speech to say we should find a way to honor the -- league players who aren't in the hall of fame only because they were excluded he meant satchel paige and josh gibson. and his announcement that day sort of helped pave the way for a lot the -- league players to get enshrined. and i think five years later

josh gibson wasn't and not long after that satchel paige. so for all the things that ted williams wrong he he write it off a lot of them. yeah. for the book did you talk to of ted williams is red sox teammates or any of the players he managed with the washington senators and did you talk to any of john glenn's colleagues in the senate? yes, i talked to most of john ted williams teammates are no longer alive. i did talk to a few there was one who there's an interesting story in the book ted williams was playing a game in washington when when john glenn was as part of the early days of nasa and he went to a game, griffith stadium in washington. and ted, john glenn was there, the locker room. and i found an article about someone who was there and pete he said at the time he said a couple years after this happened. but right john glenn went to space.

so everybody knew john glenn was and he said something like this this guy was coming telling taiclet terrible about this space stuff and we had no idea what he's talking about. he sounded like a crazy person and i was able to interview him and he shared lot of his details. but because know ted williams rookie season was 1939. so the guys played with him aren't really still alive. did interview a couple guys who he managed with the senators and the rangers, but i didn't do much in the book about his time as a manager. a lot of been written about that and it wasn't really central to the story. his friendship with john glenn, although when he was managing the senators in washington one year john glenn in him went to dinner and they spent some time together and that's in the book. but again, i didn't want to retell a of the baseball story. i think i go through in great depth sort of his post korean war years and how they're overlooked because most people who remember about ted williams either remember the 406 or his homerun in the all-star in 1941 or his homerun that ended career

in 1960. so it was to me to showcase this era particularly 1957 when he gets 388 at the age of 39 years old. and didn't want to do a baseball book because so much had written about his baseball career. but that was kind of the portion of his baseball career that i focused on. i had a great older friend who served with glenn and in the korea war, and he told me so i don't know if it sounds accurate, he told that they would fly their planes to get washed in japan. and over a weekend. and if there were 25 guys in the squadron, 24 of whom would take about 5 minutes upon arrival, shower, shave and hit the town, there'd one guy reading in that navy manual and they'd come back sunny afternoon to.

the same guy would be there. that was john glenn. well, that's about right. i would say that that's probably little bit of an exaggeration in the book. if you pick up, there's a whole chapter on aunt russian recreation, which had another name that i won't share in a church but if you read the book, you'll know what i'm talking about. they did go in order. ted williams and john glenn. there's a really neat story about that, but it's my understanding that john glenn i read the letters he wrote home to his wife about his time in. and even one of his trips on r&r. that's a you bring up an interesting point which was something that sort of dovetails the earlier question. i think american history has of cartoonish images of both john glenn and ted williams like we do with a lot of ultra ultra celebrities from the past. john glenn, not he hated being called, you know, a boy scout like he in the right stuff. dudley do. do-right harry hair. sure. mr.

mr. maureen was with the other astronauts sort of called derisively he wasn't as clean because he didn't you know the image was he never drank. he never smoked. he never swore. stoddard told me that wasn't true. and i even found out there's again, i'm not going to say in the church, i've done one case of him swearing, talking about some some rifle women who tried to shoot down his plane in korean war and he drank and there's even the photo i showed earlier is of him holding a pipe. so he smoked. so he wasn't as quite as clean cut as as history remembers that he would never go out on the town one night during the korean war. i think he was very loyal to his wife. i think he didn't do anything wrong on his our that way. but he was not as as straitlaced as everybody remembered. and he had his ties fun on our i'm sure there's a great about him the he woody woodbury and him decided they needed a new

piano in the in the officers club because woody woodbury would entertain the guys the officers club at night and the piano wasn't very good so they next na na will go over and buy a piano in japan and. it's a great story. what he would write tells it's in the book that they were going. they were waiting for the piano, the waiting for arnold to end. and the plane didn't come back for several days. and john glenn had to just sit guard this piano for three straight days. and he was so angry that he was missing missions and his superiors are going to be mad at him. but i think he probably had a nice time. although, again, i what was remained in the archives of his time in r and r was a menu and a lacquer factory brochure and a china dish set brochure brochure and so factory brochures. and one of the letters home, he wrote to arnie was like, i thought about buying you this. so he was i think he probably did spend most of his time shopping for his family. there's a really neat story. again, there. very not to take too much time. there were a lot of very poor

korean, needy and poor children in korea near their base, which they saw who they saw every day. and one of them made friends with john glenn. and he didn't speak english very well. but he told john glenn that he didn't have enough money to buy a suit for school and he couldn't attend school. he was a little bit older. he was in his early teens. he, john glenn, went to the next he said, next time i go to r&r in japan, i'll get you this suit. and he he and another marine bought the suit for this for this poor korean boy. so he'd go to school. so he was busy during our in our. but i don't think he was sitting reading his book for straight days while the other guys were out on the town town. well, thank you very much. and.

james swanson is the author of the new york times best seller manhunt the 12 day chase for lincoln's killer. he is an attorney who's written about history, the constitution and popular culture for