what was maybe even participating in it. some extent you had forest service worker and there was a lot of between, you know, there's a forestry and so there could have been some connections there. but again, i haven't seen anything specific around that. any other questions? all right. thanks,i would like to turn them

over to dr. patrick spero, executive director of the washing john presidential library. pat joined mt. vernon in june. comes to us after serving as library and and director of the library and museum of the american phyllis affordable society in philadelphia to a library founded by benjamin franklin in 1743 and home to more than 14 million pages of

manual groups, including franklin's personal papers. we are thrilled that pat is here with us and leading the special library dedicated to the father of our country, dr. earned his b.a. from james university and his ph.d. from the university of pennsylvania. he is the author of several books including frontier country the politics of war in early pennsylvania. frontier rebels the fight for independence in the american west. a winner of the winner of, the philadelphia atheneum literary award and a finalist for best book by the journal of the american revolution. his new book, botany and betrayal, andre michaud thomas jefferson and the kentucky conspiracy of 1793, will be released next year, prior his time at the aps, pat served on the faculty of williams college teaching courses on the american the american revolution, early american history and, political

leadership. pat will be joined on stage tonight by bret baier, who many of you know as the anchor and executive editor of special report with bret baier the top rated cable news in its timeslot and consist certainly one of the top five shows in cable news throughout his tenure at fox news channel, brant has played a critical role in every major event since joining the in 1998. brett is recipient of the 2017 salt ty chef award for excellence in broadcast journalism journalism, which is the national foundation's highest honor for a broadcast journalist. so now it is my pleasure to. turn the evening over to the program and into the capable hands of pat and brett. thank you.

good evening. i don't know if you saw the show, but doug was the real star. well, thanks for joining us, brett. and i also wanted to extend my thanks to thanks to dennis franks and joy ammerman as well for supporting this initiative, founding debates. i arrived just in june, and as soon as i heard about it, i just thought, what a great concept. the idea is to take some of the debates that define our founding era and that really still have enduring relevance to every year to mark the anniversary of the library, the of an event that explores those debates. i wanted to also thank joy and dennis for their support. this is a great, great project. i have to say. i can't imagine a better book yours for this year. brett and i had an email exchange yesterday where i told them some of the things i might ask them about, but then i got a

copy of his book and i read it. so i'm going to break some news right now. i'm going to ask you a whole bunch of different questions. good. you know what? that's what i do every night. i tell somebody, yeah, we're going to talk about this. but really? so now we talking there. yeah. take it easy on me, all right? no, no, but the secret is that, all of you will get one of the books. thanks to my publisher, the mariner. crazy part is that we didn't think they were going to be available, and we didn't know. and then the publisher said, know what? we're sending everybody book. and it comes out october 10th. so i'm really psyched that you're going to have it early and maybe you can, you know, type on amazon what you think about there you go the schedule mount vernon you're going to sign them to i will them afterwards personalize them for you if you want you know happy to stick around. so i thought i'd actually start with something you say in your

conclusion, which is if i remember right, it's something the lines of the current crisis we're in may feel like it's a new one, but it's as old as the republic. what do you mean? well, you know, i started this process about writing history books in by writing about eisenhower and i did a book called three days in january, which was about eisenhower's final days in office, his farewell. and then ahead of the kennedy inauguration speech, looking through his so distraught a moment and then kind of back and seeing how eisenhower had got to that that place and i just got addicted to the process and to history. i wasn't a history major in college. i was english and political science. and i was a journalist bouncing small market tv. but i really had a love for history and that started this process. and so then i went from that to three days in moscow about and gorbachev and then three days at the brink about fdr, stalin and churchill in tehran.

they planned d-day and really thought about the end of world war two. then i went and went to to rescue the republic about ulysses s grant and the 1876 crisis that we almost fell back into a civil war. and really, his leadership as president, which often didn't get talked about that really prevented as a country from falling back into civil war so that moment made me think maybe i should go back to the beginning, beginning and that started this process with the help of doug and all the staff here, the library and everybody that helped out here with documents and and research. we really dug in and tried to make a narrative about. the founding fathers and the most founding is the fathers. george that's not really a word, but but and how crucial he was to making sure had a country.

what i don't think anybody appreciates and i know i didn't before this process is how close we were to not getting it done to not having it all come together and it was because of washington in that it all did and i think that the message your question that i was trying to get to was he is the embodiment of the document. the us constitution. he is a person as a leader was the document that provides us in this country the biggest liberty. and i wanted to show that the person but also show he worked really in a common ground aspect to bring together to everybody had dissent and different opinions and that constitutional convention is the epitome of dissent, really tearing us apart on different sides. states rights versus, you know, all of these different elements of the constitution is there hammering it out.

and what i wanted to show was, look back. we've been in some dark spots in our country and it may feel like we're being ripped apart and we're very partizan and it's really dark. but we as a country have really persevered through a lot of tough things. the biggest was the founding itself. and that's why i went back to that first moment. yeah, that's great. and one of the themes throughout this book is compromise. you talk a lot about it in the constitution, but also as president and i was wondering, what did you learn about compromise from studying the past? and how do you think today our leaders might learn from from these lessons? well, i think they better start reading because because i think, you know, there's just a lot of division and playing to the base, playing to social media and, you know, getting clicks. we have this thing on special

report that i created called common ground, where i try to bring democrats and republicans and, you know, not talk about the things that they're fighting about, but talk about the things they're actually working together on. and believe it or not, there are a lot of lawmakers up there that are doing that you just don't hear about it that often. so what i learned was that washington really had a huge job as the head of the constitutional. his biggest asset was that he was already leader from being a commander. the revolutionary war. but a lot of people don't in the years and months and years after the end, the war, it was probably the most divisive time. our country has ever seen. it was coming apart. the continental congress was not getting it done. we just didn't have a fabric that made our country and it was all different parts and pieces and people wanted to go their own way and washington, i think, saw the hope of working and,

bringing people together. and i'm talking very different thoughts about how the country should be formed and he did was listen. he listened first. his biggest asset was being silent. and boy, we do not have. we have a lot of talkers and and everything else, but listening first to the other side is a really huge asset that washington deployed when he was talking to madison, his buddy, he was troubled by the chaos and he said, we are either a people or we are not. if we are not, let us no longer act of force by pretending to it. and this is in the wake of the continental congress, which essentially came up with the articles of confederation. it's great. so leadership is another big part of this book. and i think at one point you call washington ideal model for

leadership. and so you've now studied a number of figures. you were at the front lines of political leadership today. when you look at the attributes that washington had, what are some of the attributes that you think we need more of? and are there any figures within our lifetime that you think embodied some of washington's best embodied washington's leadership style? yeah, so i think his number one leadership quality was service. he always chose to serve. he didn't want to. he was kind of a reluctant leader, but he always chose to get in for the good of the country because he believed there was something on the back end for that. you have to credit people who choose a life of service at all, no matter where they are politically. you got you're in the game. so i think that that's the first step. but he did it time and time again. i mean when he came back here to mount vernon with martha, it was like, this is it. i want to just farm and run this

place here and finish my life here. but he was tapped again. obviously, in the the constitutional convention and obviously, as the first president for another eight years, i think his leadership style was again of all to listen to all sides let them argue in front of you and then make a decision. and he was decisive in his leadership wasn't wish wishy washy but he did let it play out in front of him. the leader who i saw do that most was president eisenhower, who did it many, many times. he set up the national security council system in the white house. so they do just that. what washington envisioned, which arguing in front of the president, the decider and, then coming into to a decision when kennedy ironically when he came in and won the election, he went and saw eisenhower and eisenhower said to listen, this system really works it is what the founders envisioned.

it means different ideas different playing out in front of you. and then you make a decision, kennedy said. you know what? thanks but i've got my brother and i don't need it. i don't need any help. and eisenhower said, i think you really do. you should use this system. and they left they parted ways. kennedy started his presidency he and then the bay of pigs happened. and the first person he called was eisenhower. and that's the front picture on that book. and they're walking at camp david up the path and kennedy turns to eisenhower and says, you know, i just didn't know it was going to be this tough. and eisenhower turns and said, with due respect, mr. president, i told you exactly this. four months ago. so i think that that leadership quality is to become in your own skin as a leader, to be able to hear even vicious differences is argued in front of and then make a decision.

yeah, that's great. so whenever you write a book, you know, i know myself, i change, i learn things. did your perspective on the past change at all by writing this book or about washington himself? it did. i mean, i learned a lot more contextual history about him. the man, you know, in school hear about i did not tell a lie which arguably is a lie. you know it's just a story to make him sound pretty in the big picture but nobody can point back to that moment when he in school and he says that and i think that there was this there is this need and want to make him like a god you know but he was he faults and he had issues and he had problems just like like everybody else. and that i think is something that i think i learned from all of these leaders is they go through their own crucible of

their life in one way or another, either they grow up. poor reagan, an alcoholic father. fdr obviously fought polio. and they get through that, that khrushchev battle to realize something themselves. and washington had that, too. you know, he lost his father at age 11. he lost brother to illness. and there was death. obviously, kids that were lost. and he finds love of his life. and martha and i think that that relationship plays out in the pages of this book a lot more than i ever knew in in history. i just felt, you know, as i look at these, i have this great coauthor, katherine, and we work together in synchronicity and we have a researcher, sydney soderberg. and i first found her at the eisenhower library. long story short, i went there after i'm a golfer and i got invited to play augusta national. and it was the invite of all

invites. and they put me at the eisenhower cabin and i was really jacked up. so i poured myself a glass of wine or two and walked the eisenhower cabin. and i really didn't realize how much i didn't know about president eisenhower and i knew general eisenhower. i was committed to doing this thing, starting this process. so i went to abilene. i talked to them about a good book. there's so many books. eisenhower. what what do you think would be good? and they told me the three days of him kind of finishing his presidency to, kennedy's inauguration, i said, well i need somebody to help me research. and they said, our best researcher is a woman named sidney soderberg, who is the former mayor. salina, kansas, next door. and i met her and she said, i'm really interested in this book. i think it could be really good and i'm going to find you nuggets that you've never seen before and like little treasures. and she was so fired up about it. so i got fired up about and she

said, but i have to tell you one thing. and i said, what is that? she said, i'm a true blue kansas democrat. i watch show, but i'm a true blue kansas democrat. and i said, well, first of all, thanks for watching and second of all, that's good because i'm a news guy trying to write a history book. and i think about it as being a reporter of not a historian, really a reporter of history. and i want to write it in a way that is really readable for people, especially my generation and younger. i want my kids one day in a class to read this book and read and enjoy it. and so started this process. and she did find these nuggets each time that had not been uncovered at. the eisenhower book reagan library. i worked with people in russia for stalin, for churchill's. i mean, we found these nuggets that had been uncovered and.

catherine and i worked as like pieces a quilt and put it together as real time. i mean, this is history but it is in a narrative form that reflects back to quotes and diaries and other people. reflecting on these moments, it was tougher when you went back to washington because there were there were notes and there were diaries and there were moments that were in history. but we wanted to make it accurate to the narrative. and so we dug as much as we could. and i think we were really accurate to history. each book by the way, has this long notes section at the end where we document each one of these chapters and where we get that set up and my proudest moment in this whole now it's this will be the sixth book is i was giving a speech, the reagan library, and i'd finished the three days series three days in january was the middle of the cold. three days in moscow was the end of the cold war. three days at the brink was the beginning of the cold war. so it was kind of like star wars trilogy, a little bit backwards,

you know. but i finished and i was given a speech at the reagan library, and i finished the speech and a lot of big crowd and signing books at the end. and this teacher came to me and said, listen, i have an eighth grade class. and this next semester i teaching a three days class with all three books, and it gave goosebumps. and so i zoomed into the class and i talked them for an hour and i took questions and i don't care how successful of those books are, that moment is really what i was whole doing about writing these books is because it's in the next, the next generation who i fear is not getting our history, is not getting who we are as a country. and that produces a lot of problems in our country. i think we can back to history to learn where been so that we know where we're going to go, that fun fact, the population of virginia during the revolution produced how many great leaders james madison, george

washington. thomas jefferson. george mason. we can go on the population of virginia that time white population is approximately same as scranton, pennsylvania. today. so where are all of our leaders and i just wonder if it's something that's missing in educational system. that's true. can virginia make another batch? yeah, that's right. well, so that's a great thing. so what if this was book was assigned in a if were a 12 year old, 14 year old, what would you want their one takeaway to be from this? i think the one takeaway is that there's hope that there's hope that. our country has been through so many tough things. and the toughest being the formation of the country in the wake of, you know, british occupation and fighting a war and different of our country that really didn't want come together in some way, shape, form. but they all came together. philadelphia, in that room and they hammered it out and they made compromises. and it's not a perfect document, but it is a document that is as

perfect as they could make it. and if you look back at it, there will never be another like the u.s. constitution and the bill of rights that obviously came. that was one of the big fights. and we have 27 amendments, ten of them are the bill of rights. and that was a huge battle that actually some people won and it changed the heart of the document and the heart of our nation after that. you know, in your conclusion, not going to give it away, but you talk about an experiment. the national constitution center did, that brought together progressives, libertarians and conservative doves and asked them to try and write a new constitution and the outcome is really revealing. we're not going to reveal it now. i read the book. i mean, you want to it's a good. okay, so we call that in the business a deep dish. coming up next. yeah, no bottom line all summer and summarize for you is that these three very ideological different groups were instructed

to redo the constitution or make changes to the constitution and they all come back with just minor tweaks because they realize that it's a really good document and it is a living and breathing of what our country can be. and we just need as a country to remember that, especially as we're getting into election. and another time where leaders are going to step up and say all of things. but looking back to that document and where we were at the beginning is really instructive. no matter where your politics are. great. well, i we can turn things over to your all star panel, but i want to ask you one last personal question. you're the greatest job in the world. i do. what was plan b? great question. that was that i would probably use. plan b was was doing with people and interacting with people who would probably be sales of some kind if it could be sales and

golf. i think it was going to be really good. probably sell something in a pro shops somewhere but it really is a joy for me to go to work. i just got back from saudi arabia and interviewing the the crown prince over there. and literally as i finished that and we didn't know it was going to be in english, i actually had a similar tennis translator in this box ready to do arabic and real time, and he started answering in english. and then the third answer came in english, and i, holy cow, this thing's going to be in english. and but what he said and how he said it, i think, was just introducing a figure in the world who's going to be there for 30, 40, 50 years. and after finished that interview, i went to the airport waiting for my flight and bibi netanyahu called and said, i need you to to new york and i'll do an with you and. i changed my flight and i flew overnight 16 hours and i did the

interview and so i really that those big moments are things that you know in my career are really what i look back at and just say wow. if you're in the middle of things that could change the world and just being able to report on it is a real blessing so i love it. well, you for coming, bret. yeah. thank you. thank you so. let me introduce my panel here, charles hurt opinion editor for the washington times. come on up. and susan page, washington bureau chief of usa today. okay. that's great. thank you. and we just got doing this panel on done and doing the panel on special report. so this is yeah, this is the history version of the candid one. yeah. yeah, yeah, we will. because we're history x. absolutely. we won't do. canada casino here you know

listening to that and i gave you guys book tonight so i know you haven't read it but but you can reflect on being here at vernon and how much the constitution does does not play into what you we report every day and how lawmakers look at it and big picture first you know, i think if you look for common ground in the united not just among leaders and legislators, but among americans. when you go out and talk to voters, it's reverence the constitution. and that's true for liberals and it's true for conservatives. it's true for libertarians. now, people have a different opinions about what reverence for the constitution might mean. but americans love the united states and they love the constitution. and i think i think if you are looking for common ground with americans, that's we should start. yeah. you know, charlie, big picture. first, your thoughts. well, first of all, i like to thank everybody for here and

thank the mt. vernon ladies association. it is it is. honor. i have the unusual pleasure of actually being on the board of visitors at gunston hall and everybody here probably remembers george mason and george washington had a few of their disagreements. my but i think we i think we'll be able to patch it together here. but it really is extraordinary what the board of regents at gunston hall and what the mount vernon ladies association here does. if you want something pretty and preserved, put women in charge of ha ha ha ha, they will protect it. and i loved what you, said kate, about the fact that it's all private. the government can shut down and this will not be affected by that. that's a big big it's a huge thing. and and you were talking about george washington wouldn't want to come back here and because he just wanted to form, he was

like, yeah, this is good. this is all important. but it wasn't his life. it wasn't what he wanted to do, what he wanted do was go home and live with his family and and produce things and make money. they love the private enterprise that this country offered and and the other thing that i think people forget about these and you write about this is fact that for them they had been british subjects for hundreds of years. when they decided to do this, they were british subjects and and it was a it was an incredibly dramatic thing that they did. but what they but they did it with such wisdom. and when you talk about the side, i love to think about that, about george washington's use of silence, which of course does not happen anywhere in washington today and we won't get into this but we could i could complain c-span and what it has done by way, you're on

c-span now, what it has done what it has done to encourage the the the the politicians in washington. but the the long view that these people took and the only way that they were able to create this extra ordinary document and if they were alive today, have no idea what they would think about people. but they would have recognized these issues and they would have recognized problems that we face. and they would have recognized how the constitu lution and the bill of rights is still roadmap to solve. yeah, it is amazing. if you look at one of the other amazing things about washington is the farewell address and today it is referenced by politicians on both sides of the aisle in. the book, it's published in the back in its entirety. it's it's a little tough to read because of the language that he uses, but you get the gist of it. and there were a lot of things in there that washington wanted

to leave. and one of them he talks about at length the dangers of political and part partizanship. yeah, i mean, holy cow. that that factors in right now for depression. when you talk about the dangers of hyper and the thing you know you talk about having hope, which is a good thing and you know you don't have some hope i think you have more hope than i. i will try to adopt of your hope. you know, one thing that strikes me is the founders seem to be having these fierce debate, which they had about the biggest possible. and i look at at the debate over the shutdown, which is going to start start in 24 hours. and i this debate is about very small issues in i don't even know what that debate is about. and they're going to shut down the government. so i do see i do see some contrast in the fierce debates between then, then and now. yeah. the other thing you talked about, charlie, was avoiding foreign entanglements. as we're in the middle of, you

know, the funding debate and these factors into the government shutdown debate, the of ukraine and a real split in the republican party about whether we should be there what we should be doing. you know and from the beginning, you know, not only were they worried about foreign entanglement. but of you know, we have discussions today about trade. they were the first we had these fierce about foreign trade and using that and not abusing it in a way that would hurt the private enterprise of of the country. but i also it's kind of interesting, you know, and people often seize on the hyperpartisanship and obviously it's a problem. but but if you go back and you read constitution, there's nothing to prevent partizanship because there's you can do about partizanship except on an individual level elect good people who are above partizanship and hyper partizanship and look out for the greater good.

it's the only way to do it is can't ban parties. you can't ban partizanship the only way to do it is you have to remain engaged and elect people who will see above all of that and consider the long term instead of their own. you know, near term personal interests, over the country's interests, other things in their valuing education. i mean, for that, i'm endorsing that. and god bless you for writing a book. i mean, these books are important and i'm not kidding. that stuff is vital to that. balance. what do you do? what do you do? get up at like 2:00 in the morning. yeah, i don't. i actually write at night, so i finish special. i go home. i do have a glass of wine and i do this bounce bouncing back forth with katherine. we get the stuff from, sydney and it becomes this match until we get, until we get a finished product at the first book took three and a half years. this process now is about a year

and a half. wow. but it's really for me, it's really fun for me. the other thing he about is balancing the budget. we have not. fortunately, we've done that. yeah, right. so now it's no longer problem to cuts cuts in washington now have been slowing of increases of spending. well we it we had a balanced budget for a couple of years. we've lost we've lost that. and i think, we've lost any hope of that like is there you're such a hopeful guy. do you see a balanced. i don't i don't i don't. but i do think that is a way to take the reins and stop some of the crazy you know, i think the the the big picture on washington washington and on the farewell address is commonsensical. it is. yeah, right so maybe you can't have a balanced budget. you could move toward it. you could try to impose in fiscal discipline. you invest in education. that would be something you can try to moderate some of the

partizanship in the country. it's a it's really a very he's pragmatic. yeah. and know at a time where he's stepping aside is the biggest move that any could do and take the last you know the last chapter of your book think it's the last one is the gift of a peaceful transition and that is something we did not experience the last time around. no. and that's a good point. by the way, when i writing to rescue the republic about the craziness of 1876, january was happening. i was holding the book. that's the intro to that book. wow. okay. there's going to take questions throughout it. so write some questions down if you want this one, charlie, is who is the next george washington? i mean, like a life like that in politics right now. wow. i bet i don't think it would be anybody that we would expect. i think it's somebody who probably has devoted his life or

her life to private industry, to private something outside of washington. they're not they're not drawn to politics like a moth flame. that's not what they want their career to be. they wanted to do something, but they care about their country. and it is interesting, you know, when i go around the country, i talk to people who have private businesses. it's amazing to me. i go to these small towns you go all over the country, you meet these millionaires those in small towns who do things you never heard of and those are the people that, you know, our founders, i think would appreciate the most citizens and and there's but they love their country. yeah. and they're they're devoted to service and. so i think it's probably not going to somebody we find across the river right here. it's going to be somebody over here probably from virginia because virginia is the only state that can produce a president right. there is something, susan, about

getting in the game with all of the media. we're, you know, part the deal how we how we cover it that you're in their face, you're in their families. you're in every aspect of their life. you know, a lot of people say, forget it. i'm not doing it. well, there's a scrutiny. but i also there's the ineffectiveness of government. so often the dysfunction of government. i think that's even more description. i think that's why some of our best our most promising political figures choose to run for governor not for senator or the congress. i mean, if you if you're looking for the most interest eating political leaders in the country and the ones who are most skilled at working across lines, it is, i think, by necessity, tends to be governors because, number one, they can't just talk. they got to do things. and number two, in most states they have to deal with somebody from across party lines and along with that, you know, talking about the balance that we don't have in washington, you know, they're all across country. there are states that balance

their every single year. most. them. yeah yeah. and and and they do it through you know sensible negotiation and compromise and as you point out, they do it having to deal with people from the other party and the answers are there and and i also think the founders recognize that that the states would produce a lot of answers and a lot of the state governments would produce a lot of the answers and a lot of solutions. and there and i they're just kind of out of the out of the battle. yeah these days, which i think is a real problem the laboratories of the government, they're being ignored. yeah. whereas they should be the they're kind of leading the a lot of the common sense solution. well we can do a little can do casino $100 in chips we have prepared. for this for i know and then there was we didn't get time for it but when it when he said there weren't going to be a candidate casinos he began to cry. you know, he was going, oh, no,

i want to bet you can put one more black chip on trump. thank you. so i say this is a different $100 in chips, whether virginia governor glenn, you can gets in the race or not. susan, you i say i say if possible but likely not. so you got it. 60, 44. so i would settle for your coward. i would go i would go 80, 20, 82 against against. i think it's i think it's unlikely i think it's probably too late. i think he's going to have he's got to get to these state legislative elections. i think there's always this point and and often at this time where everyone is unhappy with all of their possible candidates. they start looking for somebody else on a white horse going to come. and glenn youngkin, is that for some republicans now? i just i think it never think it never works out. yeah i just don't know where the support comes from of the seven people who were on the stage we couldn't really hear everybody on the stage because they were

talking over each other. but charlie, your $100, i would probably around 80, 20 against as well. i think that. but i do i would put glenn ahead of a lot of the people that were on the stage. but i also think that there's an entirely you know, we don't know what's going to happen with. trump and these efforts to to sideline him, which is the only sort of remaining obstacle for him my mind but but you know, a guy like doug burgum is somebody who made a fortune on his own in private enterprise and has come to north dakota and has done tremendous things. i could also see so, so the seven people on stage say one of them is the republican nominee, because for whatever reason, trump is, who do you put your chips on of the people who trump got in the picture? trump's, trump's and you've got

france let me make sure we use your is your question really you've only got we've got those seven contenders nobody else i know i don't know but i but i but i am certain that the big money and donor class is desperate for. nikki haley to be that person. and i think that the class what is this mean donor class they donor class would be people who care a lot about their i don't know what the question oh just because it contempt or no i'm trying not to express to but i no not at all because they're wonderful people and they love your country and they want to save the country. but i but i do think that they are often very bad at picking the next president mitt romney, let me just disagree. let me just i don't disagree with you about republican big of both parties, but i would say the person who had the best debate both times was nikki haley. okay, here we go. real quick finishing can canada

casino. president biden is the nominee of the democratic party. i don't i would say. $75. i think there's a chance not i would i would bet on unripe bananas before i would bet on joe biden at this point. but that said, he is the nominee. i mean i mean, at the end of the deal, something bad could happen. and he's not. but right now he is the nominee. the democrat party has all kinds of he doesn't he hasn't claimed the nominee. he goes to the convention. i'm saying by the time you get to the convention, he the guy who's going up against, whether they like it or not, he is the guy and the democrat has every firewall place to protect who party leader party leadership wants firewalls. bernie sanders. otherwise, bernie sanders would have big things happen in 2016. i'm just saying we think we're heading toward a rematch of the last election and maybe we are.

but i'm saying the reason we are employed in journalism is because happen to make us because we're not afraid to embarrass. i'm more 5050 on both both of them. oh, you see i am more more open to the possibility. so lame. it is lame. it's right the middle. all right, here's another question. is eisenhower's pronouncement of the military industrial complex as significant as washington's foreign entanglement warning? you know what? i'll take this. i think that that his farewell speech, by the way, also had a lot of stuff, much like washington's farewell speech about, balancing the budget, about doing things that we agree on first and then arguing about what we don't agree and also what got covered a lot was the military industrial complex part. and i do that. that is a signal if a giant warning washington's was more in the of you know the french asking us to come fight their battle in but big picture yeah i

mean that's a significant if you think about the machine of the military and the machine of of the defense contractors it's as much prevalent now as it was then. and and they can and they can defend it, too, by saying that a robust military is vitally important. and i completely agree that. but but but so slightly related this i do think it's kind of interesting that i would have given save ramaswamy a lot more of a chance after your debate than i do now because. he started with that debate accusing, nikki haley, of being in it on the payroll, the defense industrial complex. and then wednesday was talking about reagan's 11th commandment, which is kind a hard one to square. and i think that, yeah, the the one that maybe was more effective was when he was going after going her for that right

you going from bought you're all bought paid you're all you could be in my cabinet specifically to her talking about enjoy your job on raytheon. yeah yeah exactly where do you see this country 30 years from now. it's a great question. would you see somebody said i'll be dead. okay well, that's one way to look at it. you see, i i'm actually you know what? let's go ten years. i am actually i'm i'm pessimistic our short term situation because, i don't quite understand what's happening. i'm optimistic our long term situation. and part of that is because i see this rising generation as i mean, they could learn more about history, no doubt about that. but i think they're interesting. they care about big issues. i think about like the, you know, my own kids, i've have a

lot of i have faith in their energy and their ingenuity i think we'll be in i think we'll be in a better place in 30 years. but i don't know what quite where that it'll be different. so you think about how much changes happened just in our lifetime, right. and what you know from a cell phone. never had a cell phone. unlike, like our kids, you know. yeah. so, so when i think about death, i, i think about the fact that i think god lets us live to be older because he has a sense of humor and then he lets us die because he has mercy and that said my daughter is here, she just graduated from college and is off the payroll. she's actually she's actually paying me rent because she's renting a room from. her mother and me in our apartment in d.c., which is i mean, to go from paying it tuition to getting extra couple an income stream. yeah, it's fantastic.

but. but i agree with you, i do have a a lot of hope about the future, but mainly because all of problems that we face today are not that complicated. if go back to the founding principles and apply them the the question is do all you in this room and all of us as reporters, you know, in our effort report on on politics, can we create a situation where we back to electing good people who understand their role and carry out those duties and. that's the only way forward that gives me great hope for the future. yeah. so that's the next question really is are voters enough to understand democracy technically? i mean, are obviously we are a representative republic whether they are or not, we're stuck with them. so get to work. yeah i think voters are are

really smart. i think voters repeatedly understood things before the reporters who were covering the campaigns ever understood them. you know, in reagan be one example. that was the first campaign i covered in 1980. i was working for newsday newspaper on long island and voters saw a quality in ronald reagan that would make him an effective president. when reporters were contemptuous of ronald reagan and refused to accept that was a possibility. so, you know, give me give me the wisdom of voters. absolutely. over the wisdom of us. i agree. and i think that the pendulum swings and voters make decisions know covering the 2016 race when we were just a quick story we were covering hillary clinton nomination at the convention in and fox didn't have the best positioning surprisingly at the dnc. we were out in the parking lot in a tent anyway. so we finished the show and i

walked out of the tent and the tent had been put up by the union guys. and so this guy, the tent is in a purple shirt and on the back of it says, i'm with her, meaning hillary clinton. and so i walk out of the tent, he goes, hey, listen, brett, listen i need to tell you something, okay? i'm with her and and i said, wow, okay. well, how are you? are there others like you? and he said. yeah, yeah. come on. so he goes back. we walk about 150 yards to the lunch area and there's picnic tables and there's 150 guy purple shirts. all of them say, i'm with her. he stands on the picnic table and he says. hey, yeah, you guys, how many guys with her? no hands. how many are you guys with trump? under 50 hands. so i to him. wow, that is really your union. i mean, you built the thing you've got the t shirt. can i ask you about this? the show is like, yeah, i can't

do that. but that was another example of i covered things around the 2016 election that i knew was different and voters were changing and the, you know, we couldn't really pick it up in any polls like. i could pick it up just talking to people that. and so in that sense you're right, voters do make make the difference. charlie word no that's that was quite a rollercoaster in 2016 and you know and i always go back and think about another thing that we're missing as a country, of course, is charles krauthammer. because during that entire time, his his and his sense of humor is hilarious. sense of humor brought, such balance to to and sort of, you know, heft and balance to to your coverage it and we miss him

every day. we really do. charles was a you know both of these folks, you know, worked alongside him different panels. but he was he could speak in verbal op ed as his normal talk. well, it's funny because, you know when he i often heard him say that he would he wrote his columns for a dad at home tear out and put in an envelope and send to his son at college so that his son wouldn't get destroyed by university professors and would have a better sense of. well, what's funny about that was i was that i got i went away to high school to even back in high school. my dad would send me his columns and then along came donald trump. dr. krauthammer wasn't a huge fan of donald trump. and first he called him a rodeo clown. we'd tamp that down. wow, charles, you got to more analytical and then and then

needless to say, you know, he's a great man. you know, it was hard to find people who had come on the panel and argue with charles krauthammer about donald trump. and there was one dumb guy who was around a lot who was what was his name? i can't remember his name. charles red ran and dr. krauthammer would sit there and kind of look at me like. i was one of his patients and be like, this is nuts. but but, but, but i'll never forget, you know, sitting there know he was an idol, a idol. yeah. and there was no he did candy casino back then. and would never put money on trump. he put like five bucks on him and it made trump infuriated and he would call and say, brett, what the deal with charles skin you know okay why doesn't he put any chips on me okay charles is the worst huge, huge problem.

i don't. i don't get to do that on show that much. but i will say as time moved on added more money, he always five bucks for one women and song and but he would put more money on trump and then at the end you're getting to the nomination it three black chips for donald trump on candidate casino and i sent trump a picture of the graphics and said even dr. krauthammer came around but anyway with that we're going to wrap up here. it's really a joy to be here. and i hope you enjoy the book. i'm willing to stick around and sign them. whoever wants to get them signed, please give a round of applause to susan and charlie because. they and their and let's get a

big round of applause for brett. well, those of us i've is trump before and now before everybody up and goes we got to give a little bit of a a mount vernon gift to you all. thank you. thank you very much. the only requirement is you have to open it. oh, okay. got it. it's okay. open it here. you're going to get a necktie. this is fantastic. you see? we'll see. we'll see. see? i'm afraid. this is historic paper here. yeah. you tear it up. okay, more. i'm a little worried worried. should. all right. wow, you are still wearing neckties? the necktie. this is the tie. that's the george washington presidential library tie. there it is. oh, not in the scarf.

and russian presidential library scarf, susan, for everybody to circular, you will see this on the show. i right. yeah. and i love to hear it. thank you very much. okay, so when what i'd like to ask you all to do take a lesson from george washington, be patient and because we're going to get bread so he can get to his table somebody is going to get him a glass of wine and nice. and then we books up there somewhere. i've no idea but he'll he as he said he's willing to stay sign books am but let's get him out of here first before you all ma'am thank you very much. yeah.

hi, everybody. afternoon. i'm john o'brien from the department of english and i'm happy to kick things off. today's lecture is part of english department lecture