>> "washington journal" continues. host: charlie spiering is here with us, senior political reporter with the daily mail, author of this book, "amateur hour: kamala harris in the white house." why did you write this book? guest: hi, thanks for having me. big part of why i wrote the book

is because there's two big reasons. one is that with joe biden's age as we go into this election, the question of whether kamala harris is ready to serve as vice president is sort of paramount among voters' minds and you certainly see this already in the campaign. you saw nikki haley talk about it a lot. also going to see trump -- former president donald trump bring it up, too of the with the very real possibility that kamala harris could be the 47th president of the united states if president joe biden runs and wins and whether or not he can serve a full term. so that's a big reason why i wrote the book and also because the behind the scenes democrats are very worried about kamala harris. they don't believe she has proved herself ready to lead and a lot of them have made comments behind the scenes criticizing the vice president and don't see her as the best choice for vice president and ready to lead.

host: who did you talk to for the book? guest: talked to different sources, some from her office, some donors, certainly a lot of behind the scenes people who work in washington. washington can be very cruel hyped the scenes. that's where they give you their frank and honest assessment of a politician. once you make a few mistakes on a national stage, you are quickly written off. it's a big part of your reputation as you go forward is a result of these conversations behind the scenes. host: what few mistakes do you think she's made as v.p. in this first term of the biden administration? guest: first of all, she struggles to communicate well. you see it a lot in some of her speeches and her remarks. a lot of conservatives describe them as word salads but even professionals in washington know that she puts too many dependent clauses on her -- in her speeches. she sort of spirals, spends a

lot of time talking, defining her terms too often. so you see this on the right criticizing these kind of moments that recall the hbo comedy show about the vice president, they compare her leadership style to that. even on a policy level, she also has struggled, certainly with the immigration issue. she really struggled to move the needle on that and several other positions as well. host: she was on abc yesterday and she was asked about the southern border. here is what she had to say. [video clip] >> did you watch that border video down in el paso and does that send a message to americans that the border is secure? vice president harris: we are very clear and most americans are clear that we have a broken immigration system and we need to fix it. members of the united states senate considered to be very conservative with others came it a bipartisan resolution, but

they're refuse tog put it up for a vote and in large part because we know the former president would prefer to run on a problem instead of fix a problem. >> as of right now is that executive action on the border still on the table? could we see that? vice president harris: that does not absolve the real fix is when congress acts. still on the table though. yeah, for conservation. -- consideration. host: charlie spiering, how did she respond there and what do people say about the border situation and tying it back to kamala harris? guest: in june, biden chose her to take a lead on the immigration issue and she traveled to guatemala and famously gave a press conference telling migrants do not -- if you come, i believe you will be turned back. this is what she said to all the migrants wanting to leave their country and travel to america. but it's very clear at this point that they did not lisp ant

take her seriously. she failed to live up to that moment because -- and srnl even in that answer she does not acknowledge the fact that she and the president have a big responsibility for everything that's going on at the border today. sort of being unwilling to admit that there is a lot they can do as the executive branch to tackle this issue without congress. host: when it comes to the vice president's performance on this issue, those in her office have said she's in charge of the root causes in central america. she's not in charge of -- the president did not put her in charge of dealing with all migration on the southern border. guest: certainly and you saw the president certainly saw this as a way, granted, your number one position is on the root causes but you are also expected to be able to speak about this issue in a way that can convince voters that you are handling the issue properly. certainly even the president

himself said that kamala was in charge of the immigration issue. she actually corrected the president in front of members of congress, sort of steering aside from this major responsibility, because she was unwilling to tackle this issue. host: kreked him how? guest: by saying i am only in charge of root causes. do not say i am the immigration czar, as republicans like to call her. host: what -- who did you speak to or did you get any positive critique of the vice president's performance? guest: i did speak to some people who felt that she has improved. most people admit, even her biggest supporters admit that she had a rough first three years with all the problems in her office. a lot of people will say those problems are fixed now as we head into an election. there is a political reason to be saying that, but a lot of her former staffers feel either unwilling to speak on the record

in support of her or just ready to move on. host: and why? guest: i think it's a mixture of different reasons. certainly staffers in washington know that if you are working for a politician, either the environment is too toxic to stay or it's not seen as a path to success. i think that a lot of former staffers of the vice president don't sear her as -- see her as having a successful vice-presidency that will move forward up into the executive branch. so i think a lot of them are leaving the office because they are unwilling to take that chance. host: we are talking about kamala harris, new book by charlie spiering, "amateur hour: kamala harris in the white house." we want to get you involved in this conversation. democrats, 1-800-medicare. 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independence, 202-748-8002. you can text us, include your first name, city and state to

202-748-8003. join us on facebook.com/c-span. the roots angela johnson had this to say about your book. while other news outlets have reported on dissension in the v.p.'s office, it's important to note that spiering was a political writer for the washington examiner before moving to brightbart where he worked as a white house correspondent. so he is probably not the biggest fan of the biden her harris administering. as you can possibly imagine, the fox news crowd is ready to pick up everything is -- no matter how you feel it's no coincidence this book coming out in the middle of the republican primary season is describing the country's first black v.p. female who happens to be a democrat as difficult. but to imply that a former district attorney who represented california in the

united states senate, where she served on the senate select committee on intelligence is not qualified for the job of vice president is laughable. guest: it's certainle not laughable, because it's not just conservatives who have problems with kamala harris. her approval ratings are in the low 30's. there is a huge portion of the democrat base that view her as unsuitable for office. i think the daily mail ran a poll in september of last year and she was found to be the most unpopular vice president in the last 40 years. that's not just conservatives that are saying that. that's people on the left and certainly people on the right, but when you have approval ratings that are the lowest in modern history, it's not just a product of racism and sexism. that's only if people like to dismiss that as i think there is valid criticism from both sides and who have found her wanting in the first three years. host: we want our viewers to engage on that part, valid criticism here of the vice

president. here is the disapproval ratings of kamala harris since january, 2022, to current times. disapproval rating hovering around 52.3%. willie in georgia, democratic caller. hi, willie. caller: good morning. how are you today? host: good morning. caller: i don't understand the gentleman's criticism of the vice president. how will he rate the former president of the united states as an amateur or someone on kamala harris' scale? kamala harris, former prosecutor out of california, and now you criticizing the vice president of the united states? i don't understand the timing of the book and i know everyone writes a book and wants to get on the new york bestsellers list

but this is one of the most disgraceful things that one could have written. the former president of the united states, domed trump -- donald trump, how did you rate him as a world leader? some of the things he did. host: got it, got it. guest: thank you, willie. i certainly see -- i can see that your point is correct, that former president of the united states donald trump was an amateur when he came into politics. but he spent the first four years leading the country in a way where his party, even though he was unable to win re-election, his party is ready to put him back on that platform. i don't think that would happen with kamala harris if she was to run today. i don't necessarily think she would be the number one choice as the best running mate for the democratic party if biden were to step down. i would concede your point but i would say there is enough concerns in the democrat party that are not willing to see her as the future of the party.

host: the caller brought up her 10 years district attorney. you write about that in the book. as district attorney, harris' vow to be smart on crime appeared to be smart on politics as she threaded her narrative to appear competent but progressive. it had mixed results, often giving hand on attention to important issues, she typically allowed issues to fade out when public attention waned rather than tackle monumental change, she appeared better at proposing and promoting new ideas rather than achieving results. when things wept wrong in her office, she feigned ignorance blaming her staff for not keeping her informed. she became an expert at pandering to activists but finding new ways to burner her role as a tough law enforcement figure in california as she prepared to further her political career. where does that reporting come from? guest: i think absolutely, when she was a prosecutor, she was -- she focused on branding herself as a top cop and not a progressive prosecutor as we

saw. her first district attorney race, she ran against a progressive who was considered the anti-rudy giuliani so she ran as a tougher, more to the center on issues of crime than the more progressive candidate. even as attorney general, i think especially during the protests of black lives matter, the activists wanted her to do so much on these issues to investigate police shootings, to take these issues seriously, to make it a priority. but she didn't step out of her convenience of her political approval ratings, and really just focused on her own career rather than taking serious risks for reform, issues of reform. host: in that analysis, criticism comes from democrats? guest: exactly. you saw a lot of this during the campaign especially on social media. they saw her as a police figure, as a top cop, rather than someone that represented change. part of the establishment. so you certainly saw that as a major issue during the campaign.

that's part of the reason why her campaign didn't do so well. her primary campaign in 2020. host: presidential bid. guest: right. host: new jersey, he ward, a republican. -- edward, a republican. caller: yes, how are you? good morning. host: good morning. caller: yeah, i am calling about kamala harris. she hasn't done nothing for this country. she didn't do nothing at the borders. she's there with biden to be a yes man and nothing else. what did she do for this country that's good? host: all right. edward there. charlie spiering, you write in the book, in the beginning americans wondered if harris would be secretly controlling biden from hyped the scenes but the opposite was true. harris was essentially frozen out from the president's inner circle. biden and his team had achieved their goal of winning using harris' identity to make history and inspire voters to pull the aging presidential hopeful across the finish line but when they took office harris was sidelined despite biden's

promise to make harris a full partner, harris began the job literally standing behind biden. give us more there from your reporting. what do you mean by sidelined? what did you learn? guest: i think when she first became vice president, they had her standing -- this was during the pandemic, they had her in the room for multiple speeches standing behind the president masked and silenced being a symbol as the president took the majority of the workload to address issues of the coronavirus and wearing masks and everything and she was sidelined. i think a big part of her mission, they tried to get her on television to encourage communities of color to get the vaccine, to wear their masks and i think that was where they saw her strength. host: any other evidence that she's been sidelined? guest: yeah. i think that during important issues, certainly when the afghanistan issue was happening,

the withdrawal from afghanistan, she was either unwilling or they were unwilling to step up. she was expected to be in the room for the president's speech about the withdrawal and she eventually decided not to do that and stayed in a separate room. i think she went relatively silent when the issue of afghanistan withdrawal went sour and really spent time hiding from the cameras that point. host: on the abortion issue, she has done -- she's been out across the country talking about the issue from your reporting what did you learn about her role there within the biden administration? guest: i think activists were frustrated when the decision happened in june, and the biden administration did not have any serious response to the overturning of roe vs. wade. in my book, in some of my reporting i show she was not ready to talk about the issue of abortion. most abortion activists can see

she sees the issue going forward into an election and has driven home the point and really made that a central point of her messaging, where biden is uncomfortable talking about abortion, certainly kamala harris is comfortable and has done a remarkable job emphasizing that issue and the biden people see that as a strength. host: she's an effective communicator on that issue? guest: she's an effective communicator but as far as getting anything done, there is a lot of activists that are upset with the administration for their failure to wrestle with the issue in a serious way other than just accepting a message we need to elect more democrats in order to make change happen. host: we will go to graham, north carolina. luke is -- luka is an independent. caller: hello. thank you for c-span. i appreciate your work. quite frankly, i am concerned about the way that the book is being played and at the time it's being played. there are plenty of amateurs. the only difference i see with

regards to kamala harris is she doesn't look like or is not the same gender of the political leaders we are used to. i have seen incompetent amateurs males lead this country ever since i have been around, and so for you c-span, i am a little concerned because i watch you because i thought you were nonpartisan. but this looks like a partisan hit job, and i want to ask you the question, your decision to even put this book up for review on c-span. thank you very much. host: all right. we are talking to charlie spiering and getting all different perspectives as we always do here on the "washington journal." you may not agree with it, but we are presenting different perspectives, different reporting, different ideas and then you get the opportunity to call in and question and discuss what the topic is for today.

albert in chicago, democratic caller. hi, albert. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: yes, as far as your guest, mr. spiering, i would like to ask him a question. every republican was onboard with the trump tax cuts, so we are going to set that aside. i would like you, mr. spiering, to name just one accomplishment that mike pence had while he was the vice president. how would you rate his job performance? guest: yeah, i think that mike pence had a lot of executive experience when he was showsen -- chosen as president trump's running mate and he stepped up and really led the country during the period of the coronavirus. that was the number one issue that pence tackled and handled and i think that a majority of especially people in washington felt that he was an effective manager of that situation during the crisis moment when it was happening.

pence took the leadership of a very difficult, very thorny issue and did a fairly good job. you may not disagree with him turning over control of the pandemic to dr. fauci and the way they handled it, but most people saw pence as an effective communicator on the issue even when he was able to get out there and talk about it. host: lucy in new york, republican. hi, lucy. caller: this is such a light topic and a light book. it's a poor attempt to try to make money. the vice-presidency, they don't do much. they said the same thing about biden when he was vice president to obama and for him to talk about the way kamala speaks, he said should have proved. the correct way to say it should have proven. so you are not that articulate yourself. host: let's talk about the job of the vice president. the role that they play in any administration.

guest: right, the role that a vice president plays is really -- the number one job of a vice president is to support and defend the president. i don't think that anyone would suggest that kamala harris has run forward and taken a lot of the heat off of president biden. there has been multiple attempts where she's steered away from controversial issues, unwilling to be the point person on thorny issues in the administering. and certainly there's been incidents where she refused to goen -- to go on sunday shows, refused to take the heat off joe biden, that is the number one job of a vice president. host: david in cleveland, independent. caller: i just want to say, i have not read the book obviously, but it appears the title is very appropriate. whether you are talkling about -- talking about immigration or in particular the situation in the mideast, it doesn't appear that she has a good fundamental grasp of

international and world affairs. she seems to be very superficial and doesn't possess the deep consideration and insight from a historical perspective whenever she speaks. it appears that she's trying to go for the moment instead of understanding the broad picture especially in international affairs. host: all right, david. let's play a little bit from yesterday's abc interview. you mentioned foreign affairs. here she is suggesting there could be consequences for israel if it moves ahead with a planned invasion as -- in its pursuit of hamas fighters. take a listen. [video clip] >> netanyahu appears to be flat-out ignoring president biden's warning of an offensive in rafa health career. is that a red line for your administration? vice president harris: we have been clear in multiple conversations and in every way that any major military

operation in rafah would be a huge mistake. let me tell you something. i have studied the map. they have nowhere for those folks to go. we are looking at about a million people who are there because they were told to go there, most of them. so we have been very clear that it would be a mistake to move into rafah with any type of military operation. >> a mistake but would there be consequences if he does move forward? vice president harris: we are going to take it one step at a time. we have been clear on whether or not that should happen. >> are you ruling out there would be consequences from the united states? vice president harris: i am ruling out nothing. host: charlie spiering to answer the previous caller's question after listening there, what did your sources say about command of foreign affairs? guest: right, that she doesn't have very much experience on foreign affairs when called to serve in the messaging role. she struggled in the beginning.

i go back to the immigration issue when she was asked if she would go to the border, if the administration would go to the border. she said we have been to the border. when lester holt said you haven't been to the border, she sort of laughed and said well i haven't been to europe either. while investigating that story, it turns out that she had been -- received media training including an answer on that question, why haven't you been to the border and she apparently forgot or did not want to use the prepared talking points she was given by the administering. she fell flat in that interview. certainly republicans made a great deal of that interview, pointing to her as someone who is not serious about the issue. host: steve in florida, democratic caller. steve in florida, democratic caller. you are up. caller: yes, yes, sir. i wanted to make a point of the difference between kamala harris and joe -- donald trump and mike

pence. kamala harris is an intellectual elephant and donald trump and mike pence are fleas. host: what about her intellect? guest: i think she has plenty of intellect. she's served as attorney general and she did a very good job representing californians in the senate. i think that when it came to running her own presidential campaign in 2020 during the democrat primary and certainly in the campaign afterwards, i think that a lot of voters were not pleased with ha they saw. that's why she sort of started at the top when she announced her run for president and then ultimately had to withdraw from the race before voting even began in iowa. i think that's a big tell of how if -- that you are not ready for the national platform of the executive branch. host: we will go down to houston, texas. tom is a republican there. good morning, tom. caller: good morning. good morning.

thanks for taking my call. i have been a republican, i am 85 years old, been a republican a long time. i am leaning towards voting for president biden and vice president harris. look, this guy that you are interviewing now, yes -- host: yes, we are listening. you said about this book? caller: i have seen -- host: tom, i am sorry, you are breaking up. we can't hear you. we will go to ohio. gus, independent. caller: i would like to ask charlie here, when he did those polls on kamala harris, do you ask their party affiliation or do you try to poll 50/50? because that's number one. number two is why don't you write a book about marjorie

taylor greene? that would be an interesting book, you know? thank you. guest: that's a good idea. maybe i will call her office and see if we can get started. but as far as polling goes, i think most pollsters try to get a representative slice of the country, half democrat, half republican and try to weigh it in a way that makes sense professionally. there are a number of different polls that have pointed her out as the most unpopular vice president in modern history. more unpopular than dick cheney, mike pence, al gore, even dan quayle who was ridiculed by the media for her amateurish antics. host: why do democrats you spoke to say her poll numbers are low? guest: a lot of them like to ascribe it to racism or sexism but others will admit that she's just not ready for the job. i think when president biden chose her, there was hope among the democrat party that she would ultimately become the hare parypt to the party.

a big wherein why joe biden is running for re-election is because kamala harris is not ready. the donors and people in control of the party don't view her as ready and are not willing to put her up to face donnal ald trump -- donald trump. host: are you suggesting that in your reporting, that president joe biden was planning to only serve one term? guest: i certainly think there was a lot of democrat advisors and democratic donors who felt that when he made that speech in i think it was in 2020 in michigan, when he made that speech describing himself as the bridge to the next generation of democratic leaders, i think that a lot of people saw that as someone who would only run for one term. even when he was running for president, there was a lot of noise made by his advisors and supporters that this was a one term thing, to beat donald trump and open the door to the next generation of democratic leadership. i think a big reason of why he is running again is because kamala harris is not ready.

host: bob in raleigh, income -- north carolina, democratic caller. caller: charlie, what was startling to a lot of democratic voters during the primaries was that when the allegations of sexual allegations against president biden were brought up, kamala harris said she agreed with them, that she believed those allegations and then she ended up getting less than 1% of the primary vote. the only reason that she was vice president is because of the promise james clyburn made to biden. i really -- i don't understand it. but when she supported those sexual allegations, i know a lot of people's ears flapped. host: ok. couple things there, but also this clyburn deal, do you have any reporting on that? guest: certainly with the allegations, when people were sort of alleging that joe biden

was behaving badly, i think kamala harris was one of the candidates who said i believe the accuse irs -- accusers. certainly during the primary debate, kamala harris was also one that attacked then candidate joe biden about the issue of busing and raising questions about his ability to handle racial issues. it was surprising that they ended up selecting harris. there was hesitation even within the biden family that they would choose somebody who had attacked him on these issues. i think my reporting found out that jill biden, the first lady, famously favored susan rice over hairs -- hairs hair. there were others in his circles kamala was not the first choice. they went forward with her because the president's advisors and certainly former president barack obama did a lot to defend kamala harris even though he made sure that it was joe biden's choice to make. host: nate in tallahassee, florida, independent.

caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i only seem 0 get on when you are on. i just listened to the young man, to your right there. it seems to me that for some reason c-span is making this program today into an extension of fox news. this man has nothing to say positive. though i will admit i would not support kamala as president if she ran singularly, i believe that this man has a problem with her and you are this morning it seems i turned on fox news for no particular reason except for a political hit job. host: nate, i addressed this before, nate, in that we have all different viewpoints on this

program. as a long-time watcher, you know that. charlie spiering, respond to what he had to say. guest: nate, i think that you correctly said that if she does run for president you would not vote for her. but i think that a big reason why i wrote the book -- not every vice president deserves a book examining the first three years. but i think in kamala harris' case, there is a very real chance that she could be the 47th president of the united states without running her own election. if it's joe biden winning in november, voters have to be aware of who kamala harris is, who the vice president is and whether or not they're comfortable with her leading the country if the president can't make it through a second term with his advanced age. host: you said at the top that in your reporting you found people who said she has improved. talk about that. guest: yeah, as they get into campaign mode, there is a lot less people talking, revealing negative things about her office. they're comfortable putting her back on script, letting her go out to some of these safe spaces

where she's comfortable campaigning, putting her in places where she's comfortable talking about issues that the president isn't necessarily comfortable talking about. but even as this continues, there are moments of -- there are problems with her peeve -- performance on the campaign trail. you saw in puerto rico on friday where she walked out of the room and started applauding for a group of singers who were protesting her in spanish. it was an embarrassing moment that would probably be featured on an episode of veep but these other times she had difficulty speaking even when she was out talking about solar panels, a lot of the same convoluted talking points and when she holds the fundraiser with some of the wealthiest businessmen in puerto rico, even as the residents are struggling to keep their electricity on, that's also a tone deaf look for the

vice president. host: esther in san antonio, democratic caller. good morning, esther. caller: good morning. my comment is, kamala got where she is because of her qualifications. she didn't start out being unqualified. she started out from the bottom. she moved up to where she is today because of her expertise and because of her qualifications. when he speaks, he speaks like me, every other sentence is uh, uh, the way i am speaking now, uh. that's all i have. host: charlie spiering. guest: i am not a politician. i am an author, not a tv figure. i will put that. also i think that yes, she does

sort of struggle to speak during some of her speeches and her record speaks for itself. host: jerry, pittsburgh, texas, republican. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i was referring to kamala harris' genealogy. her father was on television and he was proud of the fact that he was half irish and half black. her mother is all indian. so that would make her one half indian, one fourth irish and one fourth black. she's more indian than anything. host: all right. guest: on her race, her father was jamaican american and kamala harris is indian. so an even split. certainly a lot of people talking during the campaign, people who said -- i think it was don lemon on cnn had a big segment on how kamala harris was not an african-american which was controversial in the community. there are a lot of people in the

black community who felt she wasn't an authentic representation of black american life, growing up as a privileged daughter of a university professor in california. so i think that you did see the debates happening during the campaign, but certainly she is authentically black. host: why do you think she did the abc interview yesterday or taped it for abc's sunday show? what is going on behind that? what is the strategy of the biden administration? guest: certainly i think the strategy is to get her out on the sunday shows being more comfortable even though there have been times when she's been unwilling to go on the sunday shows. even during the big kerr fufl over the special counsel report, there was reporting she was unwilling to go on the shows, choosing to give her own separate speech on the issue. host: ray in ohio, democratic caller.

hi, ray. caller: good morning. how are you? host: good morning. caller: my question basically is, i was looking at the title, amateur hour, and i guess would the author feel that at this particular time, wouldn't anyone dealing as politics as they are now, wouldn't it be amateur hour for anyone? i don't think we have ever had this political discourse in the country ever, first off, and second off, i mean if you look at the vice presidents from i would say from bill clinton, al gore, he had some environmental expertise and what not. i would say most of the vice presidents have -- would qualify as being amateur hour for them. i don't think that kamala harris is by herself the only one that

you could say would be amateur hour for. host: all right, ray. we will take that point. guest: yeah, ray, there is a certain extent when you join an administration that you are an amateur. certainly when barack obama won for president, he was one of the most -- not unqualified but one of the most unexperienced politicians to take the position as president. so i think even if you are an amateur when you are brought into the position, whether or not you are able to quickly pivot and demonstrate that you have the ability to lead and convince voters and to raise enough important issues and handle those issues in a way that inspires voters to ultimately vote and support your campaign, that's where it all comes down to success or failure. host: cathy in georgia, republican. you are up next. caller: yes, hi. i wonder in your book, do you talk about how vice president

harris slept with a black man, congressman or politician and really that's how she got her start. and what about tara reid, who accused president biden of rain? guest: there is a lot that's brought up. a lot of people like to talk about her relationship with a person -- one of the most powerful black politicians in california, willie brown. you will see people talk about this and even some people mistakenly say that kamala harris slept her way to the top. she certainly dated willie brown when he was running for mayor. kamala was 29. willie brown was 60. he was running for mayor at a time when he needed to prove he could maintain a stable relationship because he was already long estranged from his wife and he was known as something of a playboy. but when he ran for mayor, he had this relationship with

kamala harris and his own campaign managers floated that as a way for him to prove to voters that he could maintain a stable relationship as he was running for mayor of california. after willie brown won that race, kamala harris was at the election celebration party, and people were talking about how maybe brown would marry kamala harris but ultimately willie brown broke up with her instead and they went their separate ways. certainly when it came time to the inauguration it was his long estranged wife who was holding the bible for the oath of office and kamala harris was brushed aside. host: carl in washington, pennsylvania, democratic caller. caller: yes. thank you for taking my call. i would just like to remind the author that when bill clinton ran in 1992, he ran against george h.w. bush, who was an old

man at the time, and his running mate was dan quayle. you can't possibly think that if bush had not survived his term that dan quayle was in any way qualified to be president of the united states. at the same time, gaffes can happen to anybody. you mentioned about the protesters from puerto rico with kamala harris. how about dan quayle's problem with spelling the word potato? guest: yeah, that's a famous antidote and a lot of people compare kamala harris to dan quayle in that moment. but certainly if i had been alive at the time, i think i would have been among the many people who thought that dan quayle was unqualified. but certainly george bush did not -- was not -- george bush sr. was not seen as somebody who was senile and not able to serve another term as president, whereas a lot of people have these questions about president

joe biden as he heads into re-election. host: charlie spiering, author of the book "amateur hour: kamala harris in the white house." senior political reporter with theso this is history.

3520 african-american history since 1865. we're at north county, central university, and today i'll be lecturing