within the party. and people who are trying to sort of determine where the whole thing goes from here and which side they are on. it is messy, choppy, and out the midterm election i think a lot of republicans thought they were going to get. now you see this sort of outgrowth of that that is continuing to be a very messy process in the house right now. >> john: so, we have 19 people, martha, voted for someone other than mccarthy. biggs got the lion's share of that. i wouldn't think that all of those 19 are hard "nos" and we heard hard yeses but not all hard-nosed. but when you take a look at what andy biggs is saying, it doesn't look like in the amount of force trading can placate and bring him over to the maccarthy si side. mccarthy is never going to get speaker. >> that is right. it was interesting what happened over the weekend, john. they got this huge recession for

maccarthy that only five people can force a revote of the speakership. so at any time they would be able to hold his feet to the fire and say, you know, we are not going this way with you and you don't come along with us on the vote, we will vote for a new speaker and throw this back up into the breeze to see what happens. >> john: the voters are saying that is not good enough. we want threshold number one. >> absolutely. it was hoped to figure out what these individuals want. when you look back in that way, it makes it seem very personal. >> sandra: all right, martha, thank you very much. we are continuing to live capitol hill there. martha joining us live from washington as well, j john s dra unfolds day one. republicans rolling into their leadership in the house having the majority of the house in the new year. there is some drama. we are waiting out on the details whether or not, john, we will head right away in the second vote or if there will be

time. there is obviously a lot of the conversations being had both out in the open and behind closed doors. >> john: i was going to say no doubt martha is going to cover when her program begins in 59 minutes. at the moment, they are trying to figure out which way to go. will they proceed immediately to a second vote? answer just be behind the scenes maneuvers to try to bring some of those 19 on board with the maccarthy train. but again, i don't see biggs and the people on the same frame of mind as biggs switching their vote. there seems to be a hard and fast group of republicans who are saying mccarthy is not the speaker and never will be the speaker. this process will go on until somebody else emerges who can take over.

and what is really interesting and kind of crazy about the whole thing, too, as she had pointed out. the last time we went to this degree of horsetrading was 1856! i mean, we are going back more than 150 years here to find a comparative frame of reference. and that in these days when the party is supposed to really kind of have a handle on what it's doing and where it's going seems crazy. >> sandra: and of course, you have to ask the bigger question, are these republicans currently supporting mccarthy will continue to do so seeing he would be leading with what appears to be much slimmer, slimmer control over the party in the house of representatives, john and that would be a big deal. >> john: at some point, they may have to come to the realization is much as we support the guy and thank him for the work he's been doing for the midterm elections, it's not going to happen and we need to

go in another direction. how many times did we see political conventions where the candidates emerged when it came to the boats in the conventions felt by the wayside and somebody else emerged? >> sandra: the rep from florida stepped out of the camera a moment ago and her main message was this, the opposition to kevin mccarthy is "personality driven, not policy. she also said there is no strategy on behalf of those voting against him. she is wanting unit t, and she said that that is clear that democrats are united. that seems to be a frequent message that we are hearing now from both parties. ronna mcdaniel chairwoman of the rnc made a similar point. >> john: well, maybe if mccarthy offers biggs ways and means, i don't know. chad, where are we heading?

right now ins suspended animatin and waiting to see the total read by cheryl johnson. she is the democratic work of the house. she is in charge of the house until they get a speaker. as i said, we will see a lot over the next couple of days if they don't get a speaker. our unofficial telly hakeem jeffries, 203 for kevin mccarthy, 104 andy biggs, nine total photo for somebody else including jim jordan. jim thanks republican of indiana got one lee zeldin from long island who ran for governor of new york got one. byron donalds republican from florida. what is unclear because we have not been into this parliamentary posture and a sentry is do they have another folk? the statute says they were supposed to vote immediately because the highest precedent in the house of representatives right now is to figure out who your speaker is because you can't do anything.

they are paralyzed and frozen doing anything until they get a speaker. so, do they go right ahead? do they nominate somebody else? is it possible the conference that somebody moves to adjourn they go downstairs and the democrats have a caucus meeting and a conference meeting? i can guarantee if they do that the conference meeting on the conference site will be ten times more intense than intense meeting they have this morning. but right now pay attention to cheryl johnson who was on the dais right now in control the clerk of the house and going to be in control of the house until they get a speaker. she will announce the vote total here and there are telling up the official vote total compared to what we have and then we will see if a motion to adjourn or if immediately close for another vote. technically that is what they are supposed to do, but again, john. >> sandra: reading a note from

capitol hill producers one republican congressman tells fox the telly is ongoing. and also the current expectation is that there will be another speaker vote after the votes are tallied without any recess or break, chad. >> that is pretty standard and what happens is the time runs out on the clock. until the chair and announces the total, the vote is still open. sometimes you have people changing their votes. so right now what we might be in and i use the term suspended animation a little bit of coping might be suspended emanation on the floor for quite some time. we've had some vote on the house for go on for hours and hours and this being one of the highest precedence of the house to determine who the speaker's might actually go on for a while. we might sit here in this status for a bit. but again by rule according to statute, they are supposed to have the next vote right away. but it would be contingent upon when they close the vote. because technically this vote

has not been closed, they always in the house of representatives announced the total from the chair and they have not done that yet. >> john: chad, we will keep watching it, thank you very much. let's bring in bret baier executive anchor of "the special report." this is a show you can describe with a word you cannot use on television. >> it is, john and sandra. i tell you, we should set the table here and now we go into once you get a final total here, which by the way, just visually has jeffries with more votes than mccarthy, which is not a great thing after the republicans took control of the majority technically with the election in the house. now you go into a second ballot and a lot of people trying to game out how this is going to go. really what it comes down to his momentum. momentum for mccarthy and does he pull off some of those 19 votes that voted for other folks? or does it go the other way? the signals that we get from mccarthy people and his allies

are that this is the long term. they are going to continue to do this and try to tick away until there is a realization that the always kevin group is stronger and more powerful than the never kevin group. it does not send a signal of the majority being able to legislate. and it really bodes really dangerous signal for the power of these different caucuses to disrupt things as we have seen in past congresses. >> sandra: you know, brett, john brought up andy biggs tweets a moment ago after this was all taking place and as it is taking place. biggs said we barely got through half the ballot before confirming mccarthy as well short of 218. my colleagues, he says have made clear the party deserves a new leader. mccarthy should stand down and allow us to select someone else in the next ballad. you have to wonder what these conversations are that are

taking place right now, brett. >> it is important to point out perspective and biggs got ten votes, mccarthy 203. so yes, he got ten votes they managed to block. however, he is not going to be, biggs, and a big speaker of the house by the pure numbers and where things stand. mccarthy could be speaker of the house, although it looks worse right now because you are on the first ballot. you could go many days like this, which is just historic marker. what we are watching here is ugly. it is sausage making but it is also history because it hasn't happened in 100 years. and before that, when you get to multiple ballots and multiple days, you are talking about 1849 and 1856. >> john: you have to go back a long way to find something is screwed up as this process today. so, let's look at biggs because he is as sandra pointed out, a

hard and fast "no" against mccarthy. everybody's got a price. what do you think the prices for biggs? >> understand these 19 voting the way that botta blew up the negotiations that were ongoing with mccarthy folks about the possibilities of doing different things, getting on different committees. there was one report in that conference they wanted two seats on the rules committee. mccarthy essentially walked out of the room. then -- >> john: he may not be able to walk out. >> he may not be able to walk out again whether five members who said there should be a vote on a speaker to be down to one member. that would be untenable situation with a house where one person could stand up and say that the speaker not working for me. there would be zero power. who would want that job? as it is, it will be diminished just by the slim majority that it is. i think these negotiations are

going to continue. you may see some votes that change before we get the final vote here on the first ballot but not enough from mccarthy to take on the first ballot. >> sandra: the way we would expect? in favor of mccarthy are you suggesting? >> well if negotiating horsetrading in the back. i think it is the allies of mccarthy who are doing it. you won't see mccarthy on the floor. i think he will project, you know, some smiling and backslapping. you need to switch 15 votes. not this time. he will not do it on this ballot. we are into history and may be multiple ballots over the next -- >> john: how many of those 19 do you think are hard "no" mccarthy and how many, okay, this is a show vote now because he will not make it. so i will cast my vote for somebody else just to send a message. >> that is a great question, definitely five hard "no" votes may be ten.

there is some negotiation and horsetrading that could be done. the question is how much patience does the other team can with the pro kevin mccarthy have. are they willing to stand up and say this is our guy or does a consensus candidate come not by himself or herself but put forward by somebody? tom cole, nick henry, somebody, lee zeldin, skull lease who gets msteve scalise who gets more lok as john painter did. >> sandra: breads, the only reason i asked the question in the way i did is if you voted for mccarthy and you weren't a hard "yes," and there was room to see what happened here and you see that if he does become a leader, he would be leading with a slimmer -- okay, we are traveling. let's get back in.

>> the house will be in order. the house will be an order. the house will be in order.

the tellers agree and they are tallies that the total number of votes cast is 434. 434 of which the honorable hakeem jeffries of the state of new york has received 212. [applause] speak with the honorable kevin mccarthy of the state of california has received 203. [applause] the honorable andy biggs of the

state of arizona has received ten. [applause] the honorable jim jordan of the state of ohio has received six. [applause] the honorable jim banks of the state of indiana has received one. [applause] the honorable lee zeldin of the state of new york has received one. [applause] the honorable byron donalds of the state of florida has received one. [applause] no persons have received a majority of the whole number of votes cast by surname purity speaker has not been elected. following the procedure used by the house in 1923 and recorded in cannon's precedent volume six, section 24, the clerk is prepared to direct the reading

clerk to call a rule anew. for what purpose does the gentleman from ohio seek recognition? arise to nominate kevin mccarthy for speaker of the house. [applause] speak with the gentleman is recognized. >> thank you madam clerk. i think we have three objectives this conference, three fundamental things we have to get done in the 118th congress, first, pass the bills that fix the problems. in two years' time, we have meant -- we have a border that is no longer and a military that can't reach recruitment goals for my bad energy policy come

about education policy record spending, record inflation, record debt and a government weaponized against we, the people come against the very people we represent. [applause] so, we need to pass legislation to address all of that. and i hope my democrat colleagues will join me, i really do, but i have my doubts. if they don't and if chuck schumer says no we would not take legislation that we pass and if joe biden will not sign it, so be it. they will have to answer to the people in 2024. second -- [applause] -- second, we can never ever let a bill like the one that passed 12 days ago $1.7 trillion spending, we can never ever let that kind of legislation pass again. [applause] we have to pass a budget that makes sense and that is good

common sense. the 12 appropriation bills that recognize it's the people's money, not ours. send it to the senate and then stand firm on that legislation. again, if they won't take it up and joe biden won't sign it, we can stand firm on acr or something. we can have that fight, but we are not going to have what took place a week and a half ago ever happen again. finally, third and this is important. we've got to do the oversight and the investigation. >> order, order! >> we have to do the oversight and the investigations that need to be done. this idea that bureaucrats who never put their name on the ballot but think they run the country have assaulted our constituents first amendment liberties, they need to be held accountable. that has to happen. [applause] we need to do it -- we need to

do it in a way that is consistent with the constitution, but we need to do it vigorously and aggressively peer that is part of our duty as members of this body. it is my friends here on the side of the aisle, i would say this, the differences, we may have differences between joyce and jordan or biggs, they pale in comparison to the differences between us and the left, which now unfortunately controls the other party. so, we had better, we had better come together and fight for these key things, these three things here that is what the people want us to do. i think kevin mccarthy is the right guy to lead us. i really do and i wouldn't stand up here and give that speech. i came in with kevin the same time 16 years ago. we haven't always agreed on everything, but i like his fight, his tenacity and i liked -- kevin told me and wrote about this in the book, kevin

told me, "the toughest times in life and you get knocked down, the question is can you come back?" i've always seen him be able to do that. we need to rally around him, come together and deal with these three things. this is what the people sent us here to do. my favorite scripture verses second timothy 4:7 giving advice to the young guy fight the finish fight, keep the faith. i like the verse because it is a verse of action, fight, finish, keep not wimpy words but words i think fit america. that is what the american people want us to do to fight for the things they care about and elected us to do. we should all remember, we should all remember only about 12,000 people have ever had the opportunity to do what we are doing today, sit in this body and serve in this congress. it is a privilege. it is an opportunity. we owe it to them, the american people and the good people of this great country to step

forward and come together, get a speaker elected so we can address these three things. i hope you will vote for kevin mccarthy peer that is why i am proud to nominate him for speaker of the house. [cheers and applause] >> for what purpose does the gentleman from california rights? thank you madam clerk. we are witnessing history here today. i wasn't quite sure who the gentleman from ohio was nominating purity or if he was nominating himself. >> is the gentleman rising to place made a nomination? i am. [cheers and applause] i am. just i would like to be taking this opportunity the gentleman from ohio took. look, consider all that has happened. the last time an election for speaker went to a second ballot,

leader jeffrey's beloved new york yankees had not won a world series. consider all that has happened since then we are the work that the body has entertained, the work we have done for the people over that time. we are unified behind a speaker who will continue that progress despite the chaos on the other side, madam clerk. we are going to stay here to get this done. we are unified, and we are all going to support hakeem jeffries for speaker. the lead vote-getter, the lead vote-getter in the last ballot. madam clerk as chair of the caucus i am directed by the vote of the caucus to present for election to the office of speaker of the house of representatives for 118th congress the name of the honorable hakeem jeffries, the representative elect for the state of new york once again. we will be unified once again in our support for him. [cheers and applause]

>> for what purpose does the gentleman from florida rise? >> to nominate a candidate for speaker of the house. speak with the gentleman recognized. >> well, sometimes we have to do jobs we really don't want to do. sometimes we have to do jobs we are called to do and so, my call leads, high-rise to nominate the most talented, hardest working member of the republican conference who just gave a speech with more efficient than we have ever heard from the alternative and i'm nominating jim jordan. jim jordan is humble, perhaps today, humble to a fault. maybe the right person for the job for speaker of the house isn't someone who wants it so bad. maybe the right person for the job of speaker of the house isn't someone who has sold shares of himself more than a decade to get it.

maybe jim jordan is the right person for speaker of the house because he has not beholden to the lobbyists and special interest to have corrupted this place and corrupted this nation under the leadership of both republicans and democrats. maybe jim jordan will be the right person for speaker of the house because he wouldn't fight us when we tried to get a bill on the floor. maybe jim jordan would be the right person because he wouldn't fight us when we try to put a balanced budget on the floor and vote for it and maybe jim jordan is the right person because he will endorsed the plan built by the texas delegation to finally secure our border. mr. jim jordan said in his nomination that there are certain bills that we ought to pass to fix the problem. the challenges, the alternative has been someone voting for the very bills that have caused these problems. mr. jordan says we cannot accept

legislation like the omnibus. i fully agree. if jim jordan were speaker of the house, if you were the leader of the republican team, we wouldn't have that circumstance choking the economy of our country, increasing inflation and diminishing the prospects of a better life for our fellow americans. finally, mr. jordan said, "we must engage in rigorous oversight." everyone of my republican colleagues knows the person who can lead that oversight effort and works on every day and has the skill and the talent and the will is jim jordan. i nominate jim jordan and i'm voting for him. [applause] because the reading clerk will call the role.

are you ready? adams. adams -- jeffries. aderholt -- mccarthy aguilar -- jeffries allred -- kevin mccarthy. allen -- mccarthy.

allred -- jeffries amodei -- mccarthy. armstrong -- mccarthy. >> sandra: we will see is this bow continues on capitol hill as we all just heard a moment ago, jim jordan on the floor pitching mccarthy for speaker and you are open-minded as chad program is reminding us it was a few years ago they were rivals and became friends. so that was the pitch as well as matt gaetz for formally nominating jim jordan as someone who doesn't want it, john. >> john: we will see how the boats change in terms of the others. we will see how many people jim jordan convinced. bret baier is with us. that was an important moment when jim jordan stood up to put mccarthy's name into nomination. think gave the speech which

basically said, "let's get down to scope statement business and forget the procedure stop." >> it was important for mccarthy and listen, if you talk to people on capitol hill, they say congressman jordan doesn't want to be speaker. that is not where his forte is. that is not where he wants to be but the chair of judiciary. he can open up an investigation on a number of frauds. the origins of covid appear at the doj of russia gate. all of the investigation he has been talking about for years, he now wants to lead with subpoena power in that position. so, it was important that jordan made that speech for mccarthy. it will be interesting to see as we mentioned last time the momentum and how many votes does that peel off or mccarthy? i'm not sure if the matt gaetz speech will cain votes for jordan. again the magic number is five. that prevents the majority of

218 but it is important as chad points out very well to remember the quorum that they established as the majority of 218. however if you have people leave filmic leaving in a situation one reason or another, suddenly that number changes. the magic number changes appear the longest we have been talking about history, the longest was 1856 where they went to 133 ballots to elect representative nathaniel p banks as speaker of the house. it was 133 ballots. it went from december 3rd to february 6th. february 2nd, rather, febr february 2nd -- after this procedural stuff including starting congress in electing a speaker and moving forward, the congress was out until january 23rd. so they have some time here. maybe they don't really want to stay until january 23rd, but it could take a number of ballots. not 133. >> sandra: bret, that is what

we will see in real time as the second vote continues. will there be and i guess this is the question i was putting to you before they gaveled back in, do more members fold and support mccarthy which could make the assumption that would be the case? or if this drags on and goes in to perhaps third and fourth ballot, do members get annoyed and fear what that means for the republican agenda going forward and change their vote, those originally cast for mccarthy? >> what 1856 didn't have was a constant coverage of the vote. and a constant upset republican voting group of americans who say, "what the heck is going on on capitol hill? a photo for change and how you can't get your house in order." the frustration will build and i don't know how many ballots it will go but already for votes for others.

once they get to five. >> john: but still 434. >> you are kicking into another pilot. i think that speech probably peeled off may be ten. but you will still probably have five diehards may be more who voted against mccarthy. we will see how long the standoff continues. the pro candidate always kevin folks say they will keep on going. and so do the never kevin folks. >> john: there was a no punch of democrats left in the last 3o five, mccarthy is done for a second time. what do you do? do you start some really, really serious horse trading, more serious than jim jordan getting up and nominating him and a speech? again, everybody's got a price. what is the price for those four or five people? >> representative bowden said in a press conference they had been

negotiating with the mccarthy allies about a series of things that they wanted, that this group wanted. that would get him elected speaker in the first ballot. but among the first things was that any member could stand up and say, "we don't like the speaker anymore and start new" peer that is untenable. he was negotiating it down to five members. they want a term limits bill, as you heard representative gates say they want a vote on that. maybe that is a negotiation that people put that on the floor, although it is politically, you know term limits are popular around the country. so it is politically dangerous. remember, everybody sitting in these chairs is up for election in two years. they are making calls about fund-raising. they were making calls about support with the next election already as they are tabulating each vote for speaker. they technically right now are not members of congress. they are representatives elect. the ones that are coming in. and these committees haven't

been formed. there was also a dangerous play here for the people who are standing against mccarthy. if he survives and eventually peels off enough to get the vote and become speaker, they risk losing a lot of power just in another house. >> john: just another observation before the senator comes in we are for now and you know matt gaetz will vote for jordan. so we are done for this time. >> he won't get speaker. we expected that is the case. we don't think anybody left. so the number will still be five which prevents him from getting it. jeffrey's again will likely get 212. and again to see much of the democrats having more votes than the republican than a republican majority elected on november. >> sandra: bret if you can stay with us on breaking news coverage, live on capitol hill as the house speaker vote moves to a second ballot.

the count is happening right now. karl rove is with us. the chief of staff of fox news contributor. karl rove, i supposed you have to wonder what horse trading is being dumped in between the boats here? >> i'm more interesting the horsetrading that went on before hand. my understanding is that yesterday, wednesday, late in the afternoon into the evening, mccarthy made two concessions on the motion to vacate where he offered to allow such motions to take place in five-member supported it. the freedom caucus people wanted one and he conceded it. they also wanted a special committee, a committee to investigate the weaponization of the department of justice for the fbi. he agreed to let that happen. but what is interesting is after that, they moved the goal post. suddenly, they wanted to have scott peary made chairman of the committee and for perry to designate with the committee members were. no speaker has that authority.

that has to be done by the committee of committees. in addition, they want freedom caucus members to be able to designate what comm committees y want to serve on and wanted to give the speaker subcommittee chairs that they would be able to designate the chairman, which again, you know, no group in the house gets to be able to do that. the black caucus doesn't get it. nobody gets to be able to do that. that is done by the committee of committees. so they are constantly moving the goalpost. they want to set up a new -- there are specific rules on how you go about putting the house of representatives on record to engage in outside politicization. they want to be able to have a separate committee they would control to have had authority. so, these are extraordinary demands by the freedom caucus. and for personal power, scott peary to be the chairman of the high-profile committee. and the members of the caucus to designate what they would serve on and so forth. this is an extraordinary listing

and after mccarthy conceded on two pick issues and came up with a whole bunch of others. >> john: karl we watch this vote take place and others have jumped to seven. we assume the democrats are hanging tough on jeffries and being unanimous. there are others that we would expect on the republican side which means mccarthy loses on the second ballot. so where do you go from here? >> well i think you keep voting and at some point, they've got to step aboard and say, this is what we want. and if they step aboard and see what they want, they will not get it from mccarthy. my censuses even if mccarthy were to withdraw the rank and file of republicans likely to be for any of these changes and likely to withdraw some of the concessions they have already made to the freedom caucus. >> sandra: you know, this alliance, this gym jordan/kevin mccarthy or lance will be interesting to see if it pays off because we know things changed a couple of years ago and that alliance was formed.

obviously jim jordan made on the house for just a moment ago, karl. >> look one of the reasons that last night the freedom caucus had we want to take the major responsibility and something talked about for months and months and months and investigation of the activities of the department of justice and the fbi. they wanted to strip it away from him and his committee and give it to a committee chaired not only by scott perry, but that peary would designate the committee members. as the judiciary committee, jim jordan does not have the authority to designate who the committee members are pure those are designated by committee on committees. if they want to strip the board part of his jurisdiction away and then decide one of their own to be chairman and be able to decide who will sit on that committee. >> john: carl, came this out for us if they keep voting and mccarthy never reaches the magic number come over there 218 or something less than that

depending on whether or not people start to drop out through attrition, then you've got to say, okay, this will never happen. so where do you go from there? who could you bring forward as potential consensus candidate to become speaker? >> first of all, you have to agree mccarthy to toss in the towel. the only kevin that will stay with him until the cows come home. so the first is the next step is he has to come to a place where he says i'm throwing in the towel. 10-second of all, it becomes if that were to happen, there would have to be discussions about who that person is. remember in rebutting out the freedom caucus people to achieve that and bring about his countervailing pressures from other house of the republican caucus. if they were able to get that, then we will come forward with our set of demand, particularly

if they are able to get somebody who agrees to do things like allow freedom caucus members to designate committees they serve on and so forth. there will be other demands from other groups of the house of republic. this is utter and medicated disaster. chaos brings about chaos until it no longer brings anything but chaos. >> sandra: karl rove, standby with us as the vote continues on the house floor. brian kilmeade joining us from "fox & friends" cohost, jump in, brian. >> a couple of things my big question which had program why keep voting? who's changed and who's negotiating? they are supposed to keep voting unless someone calls for a recess. why wouldn't you call for recess? why would you go through this again? logic would say but i don't remember 1923. i forgot my -- at home. i'm pretty sure there is no template for this but call for a recess appointment. they stared each other down and

it didn't work well for the republicans. karl rove said this is ever chaos. we have to see if behind the scenes staffs are negotiating. but so far, you have to think they have been playing this out for at least the last six, seven weeks. so they know roughly how to game plan it out as if it is a war. so you do tabletop. what if this happens or what if this happens? so far if you see andy biggs get behind the microphone and do what george and do, i don't see anything changing. >> sandra: maybe they save that for the third vote? what does andy biggs want to be able to do this? no doubt about it this is a great day with democrats and the senate come at the second best thing that could happen to him. because pretty much completely we will lose the house since 2022. >> john: you mentioned you did have a kaleidoscope so you don't remember last time this happened but get to the point where this looks like it might be headed, you might need to pull out the

ten type because we are back in the 1800s. in terms of history as we look ahead to this. >> john, there were other issues back then. the least controversial thing happening. >> john: right about that time. but as we tried to deal with karl and he wouldn't put forward potential candidates but let's game this out. if mccarthy comes to the realization -- if nothing changes, first of all, let's say that, if nothing changes, mccarthy can't get to the magic number whether 218 or something else, and he agrees, okay, my dream of becoming speaker will never be realized. now we go to someone else. who is this someone else? be true to you, brian kilmeade. he is checking all of his text messages. >> for those going to karl because he is nicer than i am and feel obligated to go to him. but here's the thing i wanted to

see if anybody flipped yet so even if a gain of two or three and progress, may be some people start to say it doesn't mean as much to me. i will say this morning, we had one of the lawmakers say i'm not saying for certain but for now i'm against mccarthy. i'm not saying it is forever. where you have those other five stating "it is forever." and i saw a tape of marjorie taylor greene saving she is outraged the freedom caucus is double-dealing behind her back. she says i have no committee assignments, and i'm playing it straight. the freedom caucus behind my back is not going for me but for themselves in the middle of something when everyone is on the same title. so marjorie taylor greene is trying to be a unifier. you just know the rules might be flat. we don't know. >> john: prank my noticed you strategically avoid of my question. if not mccarthy, who? >> the logic is steve scalise

which is totally personal and you don't like kevin mccarthy because steve scalise will rule just like mccarthy did and like don paneer has to purity what you have to do as speaker is not the hard-core lefty or righty. you have to be able to make deals like a diverse party and why do people pretend that it is my way or the highway with the u.s. congress? have they ever gone to history class or social studies? you do not need a hard-core ideologue and that spot. you need a dealmaker to say i will not be personally involved. i want the best deal possible peer that is why i felt mccarthy was best because he was not dug in on anything. even paul ryan was dug in on conservative issues that mccarthy which is pliable and flexible to get together with all sides of the party let alone whenever you need to accredit votes. >> sandra: thanks, brian, standby with continuing coverage, john. >> john: chad pergram standing fight as we go through this vote. we've got ten voting "no" to

mccarthy and "yes" biggs, jim jordan or wherever we are at this point. at this stage of the game and this vote and already ten against mccarthy come i don't know how many votes jordan picked off at that speech? >> that is right and already what i can tell you even though only a quarter of a way into the second roll call vote for speaker is that we will have a third roll call vote for speaker. why? it is about the math, already we've had ten cast ballots for jim jordan on the floor. kevin mccarthy can only lose four and succeed. so right now the telly is that kevin mccarthy and hakeem jeffries are neck in neck and jeffrey slightly behind mccarthy right now but that is a virtual gnomic virtue of the alphabet where the names fall in the alphabet where the democrat is or republican's. what that means is we will have probably a carbon copy what we

saw a few minutes ago that would take 10 or 15 minutes. the status where they tally up the votes to make sure the teller clerks have the same tally. they will announce that and will they go to another round? a third round by rule, this is how it is supposed to happen. i wonder how many times they will do this in a row before somebody calls for a recess? that could be the magic thing to get all the democrats in one room. democrats don't have to do much here. republicans have a very intense conference meeting this morning. i can guarantee you another conference meeting after all of this will be ten times more intense purity but we don't know. that could happen. could we have other nominations. how many votes is kevin mccarthy and his haoles willing to go through? we have been told for a while that this might take days. we might literally be day in and vote through thursday, friday until they wear them down. again, this is unchartered territory in the house of representatives. i would expect -- and we know

this early on here because already so many votes against mccarthy by name. you know, jim jordan. nothing has seemed to move the meter here yet for a while for mccarthy. we mentioned the jordan speech, it's a matt gaetz beach and nothing changes things. i will note that you had a couple of members who change their votes who supported andy biggs earlier. andy biggs himself who was not nominated for this cycle. and also dan bishop, a republican, he voted and changed his vote as well and did not support andy biggs in that round. he voted for jim jordan as well. again, we could have other as we get deeper into the afternoon. there used to be a saying about the senate that this and only has two rules. unanimous consent and exhaustion. at some point, we will see how many boats and consecutive votes they are willing to go through before everybody is exhausted. >> john: let me flag two pieces of color which are

interesting. walking through the halls of congress today, i've seen everybody bring in their grandmother, college best friend, roommate. everybody came in to see their friend, cousin, whom ever gets worn into congress. as we have gone through this today, the they will not see them because they can't swear in any members. so you have a room off of the house floor, the rayburn room sam rayburn into a post 340s, '50s, '60s never had a problem for the ceremonial photo up where each new member comes in with their family and stand next to the speaker and hold up their hand and reenact the swearing and that they do on the house floor. that is all set up to happen. it is probably not going to happen today and at this rate, it might be several days from now until they can work this out. all of these people in the capital here to see their member get sworn in and take photographs with the speaker, you don't have a speaker thoughts, no photo up appearance be to chad to come at this point

in the game, we don't know if hl pick up votes in the second round here or lose them. that is unclear at this moment and we are watching life on capitol hill, chad, back to you shortly. martha maccallum rejoining our coverage, martha, your thoughts as this continues. mccarthy has 94 in favor of him for speaker and jeffries has 90 right now. >> well, this is why we cover politics and what makes it interesting. all witnessing something we haven't seen in over 100 years that is playing out since the period of roughly the civil war. one of the interesting things that i would notice jim jordan got up and gave his speech in support of kevin mccarthy, it was only shift that we saw for a couple of votes that went to jim jordan for speaker of the house. and that is really the only movement as chad was pointing out moments ago. we haven't seen a lot here.

i logjam shift either decision by the mccarthy team to not go forward and will not happen anytime soon and galvanizing towards potential candidates. and it is interesting back to paul ryan who really didn't want to be speaker of the house. we didn't get this far down the road before he gave in and decided to support form and he would do it. so, the fact is we may see an emergence for someone else potentially here. and because we haven't seen habitation towards the mccarthy side that we didn't witness in the first round. i'm watching this with fascination as we all are. i also think the politics that we live in right now, we talk a lot of the midterms about the fact that maybe we are not living in an environment where we see these big waves either blue waves or red waves anymore. the country is so sort of dug in and divided that we are only going to see these very small

majorities that emerge in politics, whether it be after election night or in a house speaker vote. this reflects the tensions that exist in the country right now. there are a small group of people, but they are mighty and forceful who want to see real reform. i think this group has had a tough time articulating exactly what that looks like, although we know they want a real investigation the department of justice and fbi. i think we will see some movement eventually and all of this around some of these issues. that is where potential agreement may lie. i do think karl rove's point is interesting, the two things this faction want to much for kevin mccarthy he ended up giving them pure they moved the goalpost and wanted more. this has a period of frustration for the republican party. no doubt about it and quite interesting to watch to see where it is headed. >> john: there is an old children books give a mouse a cookie and the situation here. the last, they will ask for more

cookies and go to the store to get more cookie mix, milk, et cetera, et cetera. sandra, 11 votes against mccarthy. we don't know how that will shape up and bret baier believes may be jordan peeled off five votes with that speech. so, we will see where that goes. by the way, congressman chip roy who has just joined us. thank you for joining us. you have been one of the people leading this charge against kevin mccarthy for the speakership. you voted for byron donalds. where does this process stand in your mind? you have said that you potentially remain open to voting for mccarthy. where it is this process headed west mark >> thank you for having me on. first of all, leading the charge against mccarthy but for my constituents who tired of the swamp continuing to do with the swamp does. the $1.7 trillion omnibus bill. jim jordan just nominated kevin mccarthy who i also consider a

friend said, hey, we need to put the people in place to stop bills like that. that is the problem. everybody is out there saying we got everything we wanted, rule changes but let me tell you something we have no way to enforce rule changes. the speaker left has a history of voting with democrats voting with a minority against the majority of republicans over the last decade. he's been speaker or in the leadership of republicans since 2009. during that time, $11 trillion the debt to $32 trillion in other words we want a check against the swamp. we made good-faith changes. we worked hard to get them. but we needed a little bit more in order to assure we have the power to actually stop the swamp from rolling over the american people who are sick of bills and spend money we don't have or sick of open borders were sick of empowering the bureaucrats to go after them. we are sick and tired of the congress not doing its job. this is about changing this town. i was not sent here for second place. i was fit to make sent here to get the job done and we need the

leadership and tools to get it done. >> sandra: congressmen to be clear you are one of the 19 who voted against mccarthy as speakr in the first vote. the producers tell us you have not voted again and safe to say you are a know we can. >> it is not a know. i'm photo for byron donalds, my friend, a conservative and not of the swamp. he's only been here for a second term. i might vote for similar votes with a track record and history of standing up to the swamp. what i'm not going to do is blindly do what the swamp does. my constituents did not send me here to do that. is anybody listening to what is actually happening with what congress is doing? is anybody out there? are you? do you think congress is doing a good job? the answer is no. why would we embrace the status quo and do the same thing over and over again? that is what is happening in the room. and this morning, a group of voters threatened us and lost votes on that. we will not back down until we get in a room and decide how we

will be able to stand up and fight for the american people no matter who the speaker is. >> john: congressman, you used the word threaten in the house g.o.p. conference speech this morning. can you tell us what happened question mike >> in his public information for mike rogers said he will cook those of us off of committees who dare to challenge the coronation of the speaker. and the reality is, that was a threat. it was not perceived well by a lot of people in the room. mike rogers is emblematic of the problem. he is precisely why we end up wwith $1.7 trillion atrocity and destroying our freedom and funding bureaucrats. it had specific language not to secure the border. mike did not vote for it because the end of the day we got votes for kevin. the fact is everybody knows there is no secret in this town in the senate they were laughing because they knew that kevin was saying, i want this to be speaker and not because they wanted to kill the bill.

that is the truth. >> sandra: your colleague dan crenshaw sounded off on mccarthy upon its earlier and said, "if i didn't know any better from it is like democrats paid these people off." obviously this is a reference to you, congressman. >> i don't know how we are doing on voting but let me tell this, dan is a good friend of mine. i'm not blinking. that is my message to dan. >> sandra: got it. if you can go back to the microphone after you've votes and we will let you head in there. take care, god bless. >> john: appreciated. you heard it, he seemed to indicate, sandra he's not against mccarthy, but that he's going to need more guarantees. if mccarthy's speaker, that nothing like that omnibus bill ever comes to the floor again. mccarthy ahead of the omnibus bill passing in the house and senate said that nothing like that would ever come to the floor during his tenure. so i'm not sure what kind of

guarantee people like chip roy and others are looking for. but there are other opponents of mccarthy who are looking for a lot more than that in terms of procedure such as this idea that one person could raise an objection to the speak jurors tenure and start the process for selecting a new speaker of the t allow a speaker to do anything, even potentially -- >> sandra: the pope continues and brian kilmeade set in real time and just everything you heard from chip roy what is your reaction? dan crenshaw is friends with chip roy on a tv today. he said this, there is not one email he's gotten from anyone in texas -- they asked him come about kevin mccarthy. it doesn't come out. he voted against it and urged everyone press conference to press conference don't pass the omnibus bill. let us have control of the bill. chip roy said i heard that but around restaurants and bars, they were saying they were laughing and he didn't mean

it. how are you supposed to get inside somebody's head and only saying that but they don't mean what they say? actually set up and did an interview and said omnibus bill is a disaster and i will never pass this. what guarantee do you want? nonomnibus centric? question market is utter frustration. and if mccarthy and he are actually friendly and dan crenshaw are friendly, people in the same party would may be take people at their word. and number two what do you mean the swamp? he is not responsible, and donald trump, be upset at paul ryan. kevin mccarthy is not doing those bills and the mind nor last two years. so kevin mccarthy to pin on him is giving way too much power. >> john: i thought it was interesting what roy said g.o.p. conference meeting this morning that opponents of kevin mccarthy were threatened with being kicked off of the committees that they didn't change their vote. and i'm reminded of an old

adage, brian, you get more bees with honey than vinegar. is that the right way to approach the opponents? i read that account and chip roy came back related to that with explicit lives. you will not intimidate me. that is true. to their defense i must be thinking i'm trying to get these guys attention the last 6-8 weeks. i tried to be nice. i listen to them. i gave them everything to the point where conservatives are bailing on me. because i was giving in to much for much for other moderates. now, all of a sudden they get to the point, i will be hard-line about this. i'm not budging and it's time for you guys to budge. so, how woke can you be nice? >> sandra: that is the big question at this hour. this will continue. our coverage will continue. john, the last two hours, we've been watching this all this altogether unfolding on capitol hill. it is anybody's guess what happens in the next few minutes or so. >> john: we could be right back here again tomorrow.

>> sandra: sure. >> john: doing the same thing and team 56 repeated over again, we could be here and march doing the same thing. we will see if there is anyway kevin mccarthy could convince the naysayers to come over to his side put i think there is two or three that will never switch. >> sandra: jim jordan made his best effort pitch the house for a moment ago. thank you for joining us, everyone in our coverage will continue. >> martha: thank you. continuing coverage here. i'm martha maccallum live in our nation's capitol covering this drama that we did expect and now unfolding in a fascinating way on the house floor. the new republican majority there is in a historic battle as a handful try to block kevin mccarthy from the speaker's gavel which he has wanted a long time and worked very hard to get in the mid-terms. bret baier is standing by on set