who else could they put up? >> this is a big day potentially for gavin newsom because of what charlie and you are hypothesizing plays out, he will do everything he can to project his candidacy. >> harris: we'll cover the news as it happens. gentlemen, i'm so glad you are with me this hour. good to see you both. thank you, breaking news coverage continues on "outnumbered" now. >> yeementd /* yeemd >> emily: welcome to "outnumbered." griff jenkins has developing news right now. griff jenkins. >> griff: developing it is indeed, this plea deal, the headline may well be falling apart over judge's questioning, the terms of the agreement

specifically that the pleaing to two tax misdemeanors would somehow immunize hunter from future charges of any kind. the other and our producer jay gibeson has been in there for hours, it began at 10 a.m., there are no cameras inside, we cannot have electronic devices. i went in because i heard reports they are in recess, they are in recess because judge asked defense and prosecution to sit down. you are not in agreement about the terms of this plea dale and she's questioning very much pleaing to this tax evasion, two misdemeanor charges would protect him and called a diversion clause from the gun charges or any other. and the judge asking the

prosecution, is hunter biden under active investigation and the prosecution saying yes. although prosecution would not answer what was under investigation. this is very much a developing situation. it is certainly emily, different from what we thought would be short, routine plea deal. when the court session began, hunter biden said he was prepared and ready to plea to the agreement. when the judge started asking questions about exactly what the terms of this agreement meant in terms of additional charges coming, prosecution says this does not immunize this from charges. the defense said we understood this to be the case, they are not on the same page. if the judge does not accept this plea deal and it does fall,a part as it appears it is,

we could be headed to trial, that would be significant and historic development in and of itself. i will head back into the courtroom unless it wraps and jay gibson will give you latest of where it stands. emily. >> emily: when last questioned, any kaegsz of timing we can expect? when can we expect to see you again or any conclusion as to next steps there? >> griff: great question. the answer, i don't have any sense for the timing, the judge was taken aback by the fact the defense and prosecution did not see this agreement in the same light and that is why she called the recess to have them talk to each other. i'm not sure exactly what her next step will be. we know she'll begin with questioning to get back to the

center of this agreement and of course we now have no idea of what this active investigation into hunter biden is right now thachl is what we'll try to get. i want to go back into the courtroom and see what we can get and i'll come out as soon as i have something. >> a question. >> harris: great job, great to have you on focus and "outnumbered" and i know you are running back and forth. everybody is talking outside the courthouse, what is the color now? this has to be a fever pitch, that is the president's home state. he's got a house in wilmington, delaware. as andy mccarthy and phil holloway, it is a tight group of people in the city. what is it like outside the courthouse? >> griff: you described it perfectly, harris, it is fever pitch. all this here and networks here and reporters and cameras.

let me give you a pan, if you will. show you behind the scenes, you see the reporters outside of the courthouse on the plaza. this is the scene. we thought it would be routine plea deal that would take about 30 minutes. everyone standing in earshot of hunter biden hoping to shout a question he would answer or his lawyers would talk to us or prosecution, who knew this was taking on different tract and ultimate takeaway, if this plea deal does fall apart as it appears it is, we are headed for a trial and now all of us have learned there is a current additional investigation into hunter biden. remember, just to reset the stage, this plea deal was reached months ago in the very recent days we've had the irs whistleblowers testifying before congress and expect devin

archer, former business partner and colleague of hunter biden to tell house republicans next week he witnessed the president and his son engaging in business dealings. there is a lot happening, specifically interesting to me the judge asked prosecution if there could be fara charges, foreign registry violation we see people charged on, could that be at play? prosecution tight-lipped and acknowledging there is investigation, but not what it is. this is taking on new life of itself and a lot of new questions are coming to mind as we watch this play out. they were in recess, obviously, 15 minutes ago. we assume they will be back in court shortly, if not already and find out what develops and what additional questions the judge may have now that she's asked the two sides to talk to

each other, thought of a few more things to address in the court. we'll find out. >> harris: put your skates on, it will be a long one going back and forth, my friend. thank you. >> emily: thank you. bring in today's panel, harris and i are joined by tammy bruce, director of the tech policy center at heritage foundation kara frederick and host of making money on fox business, charles payne. the developments raise more questions than answers, what do you make of it all? >> charles: become a lawyer again. i had to put on my lawyer hat. i didn't know what fara stood for. angle i was looking at and we anticipated was just this negotiation this was a sweetheart deal to begin with. brady hand got gun violence act ushered into law by chairman of

the senate judiciary committee made form 7473 key part of back ground check. lying on the form is felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison issue bottom line. that was a big headline, the sweetheart deal had a cherry on upon to, immunity. it gets sweeter for the biden family. how brazen and arrogant to let this play out in front of the american public where people have gone to prison for far less. >> emily: tammy, you are cognizant of details and what i find horrifying about this case, i have spent hundreds of hours in prisons looking at average americans serving time for a fraction of what hunter biden has verifiably been accused of here is the level of detail. for over six years he failed to

file tax claims and tried to claim his daughter that he recognized college tuition. when supervisory and special agents refer, not just one felony, it is six felonies and five misdemeanors that were serious charges. he's facing decades in prison. after that, to learn that people whose salaries are paid by our tax dollars let statute of limitation run, prevented search warrants, prevented an investigation. to watch that smug face go in and out of a courtroom, we all know people who served time for so much less. i know a woman on chemo, who

didn't get misdemeanor, got a felony $35,000 of tax evasion. he was accused of $17.3 million. what is fair about this? help viewers understand why they should be outraged. >> with everything noted, we expected and the media expected this to go on through. >> harris: liberal media did. >> simple thing, going to take 30 minutes, it was normalized. his actions, not just his smug look, attitude of doing things in the open, expecting no problems. americans of course, sometimes what is taken into consideration it is not just crime you do, intention, if you are arrogant about it, or if you were drunk and didn't know, whatever. nature of what you're doing is based on treatment you are

expecting to get or treatment you are not going to get. this is what the major problem, microcosm in this country right now, who is this country serving? it is now a little bit of cliche, it is true about two-tiered system of justice. irs crowing the other day, okay, we'll stop making surprise visits at regular american's houses because they owe us money. that is supposed to make them good guys employees this is what the american people see, american people understand fairness. this is about fair play, so many things about sports and nature of politics and prison time and reform, and the only thing this guy is not wearing is a tutu, at this point, dancing into the courtroom and flipping off america because of absurdity.

this judge's actions and current situation is good for the country. might be a trial. for a lot of americans, it is a trial and sometimes they plea to something that gives them 50 years in jail. this is good news and it is perhaps because of the conversation because americans were shocked, the system was shocked and this cannot continue on. good it didn't get pushed on through and good for the future we see this is how the system should work. >> the landscape tammy described includes our tax dollars paying for 87,000 new irs agents. that is against backdrop, if proven, you cannot let plea to a misdemeanor. the flagrant, cavalier quality this case has been handled when most of us believe me do not get afforded that generosity is made

all the more difficult to stomach. >> i'm looking at coverage and thinking the wheels of justice finally turning, i agree with tammy, it looks like our system, which one of the central tenants is equal application and it is working today. we've been worried about that actually being the case in the past few months. come back to what tammy said, the smug look. the fact they have not just trotted him out especially in the courtroom, they let hunter take position at state dinners, they take him to ireland and he's glad handing, it is a slap in the face to everyday americans. this man should be hiding, keeping his head down, we know the evidence indicates some wrongdoing, why are they just brazenly saying fly on air force one and come to state dinners

and vacation. that is something they are seeing and recognize it is a problem, hope to come to a resolution, that is frankly more american. >> state dinner, sorry, excuse me, to finish this thought, presence at state dinner was more striking because attorney general was in attendance, too. and flying across the country, he lied and flew across the country on private jet to claim to alabama judge he didn't earn enough money to pay child support. harris. >> harris: sorry for cutting in, i want to cut in on something tammy said. this is about the american people. i love the fact you can see through the forest of trees to daylight and people can see that sunlight cleaning everything out. i agree and said the liberal

media, we all went into this day thinking this is one and done quick, however, that mantra was touted two hours ago as we were watching them walk into a courtroom. what had changeded was somebody on his legal team had done something they shouldn't do. somebody accused of pretending to be somebody else to get evidence. those types of things issue the judge is taking a look at. it is not anybody's opinion but hers that count, the judge. bring in phil holloway. we learned so much in the last hour and a half, it has been two hours and 15 minutes, we hope this will resume after a break. what exposure does hunter biden have at this point? >> great to be with you again. as of right now, there is no

deal and the big question is-- so in order to avoid that legal quagmire and predickasm, the judge said put brakes on it. defense wanted this to go through and wanted double jeopardy to be able to bar

future prosecution, but because court asked those questions and judges are prone to do that, we're back to the drawing table now. >> harris: look, griff jenkins come out of the courtroom, talking with our producer, we want to wait for his reporting. what kind of deal would they be grappling for right now? griff had said possibly go to trial. i imagine hunter biden people want that like nobody's trial to never happen. is there a limitation they can put on the plea? what could be happening? what is on the table? >> they can negotiate on charging document, information issue not a grand jury indictment, all they can negotiate is penalty associated, the charges are filed, they would have to dismiss information and get an indictment and go forward on

that, a grand jury indictment. we talked last hour, andy mccarthy pointed out, certain things may fall by the waste side, five-year statute on gun charge we decided runs in october. there is danger to the prosecution to the integrity of prouscution by engaging in much delay, they lose ability to bring certain charges due to the statute of limitations or due to double jeopardy if they take a plea on this document before them. i really don't know what is going to happen. we'll have to wait and see. i don't think you will see any plea today on this charging document. >> harris: wow, i tell you, two hours, 18 minutes and 22 seconds, last hour who would have guessed we would have such an extended break and how long this could take. have you ever seen federal court situations like this and what

does it indicate? they are not in front of a jury issue not like we're waiting for a jury. comes down to the judge in wilmington, delaware at the federal courthouse. >> the judge really is driving this train. we do see, it doesn't happen all the time issue not unheard of for plea deals to fall through. judges have concerns, maybe the judge concerned the person's jail time is not enough, maybe the judge is concerned the charges are not appropriate to the factual basis presented by prosecutors. the judge is driving this intra, what happens next will depend on what she does and what she signals, she can't get involved in the plea bargaining or tell them what charges to file, all she can do is approve or disapprove of the plea deal

presented with. she has not been presented with anything she wants to sign off on. >> harris: it is pretty unbelievable and i have been saying it, we have a way to see all of the other networks, i can't say all, our screen is not that big in the studio, we can see four or five of them, this is headline everywhere right now and politics play a role and in that courtroom, you have to be immune to all of that. who doesn't know the president of the united states son is in jeopardy. >> speaking of politics, i wonder if it is not time for a special prosecutor to take this over because i have concerns that perhaps the u.s. attorney in delaware also wanted double jeopardy to bar any future prosecution. this thing has become a mess, the train is off the tracks and i think if integrity of the judicial and legal system is to

be salvaged at this point, an independent person need to come in, true special prosecutor who can say, look, we want to look at what the prosecution has done and not done and see what went into this decision-making as to this plea deal because right now it all looks like the train has come off the tracks and very messy and i don't know how it can be salvaged in a clean way by the current prosecution team. >> harris: we will ask you to sit by, grab your favorite soft drink and we'll come back to you. something he just said, charles, is really eye-opening and speaks to issue of what tammy was saying earlier. this is good for the american people to see. it is messy. this isn't how anybody thought it would go, but we need to see this, if we can shake the bonds of special treatment for the family and white house or anybody who would have political

power mixed with money and influence then maybe the american people can get back to a point where we might trust the system. >> charles: especially young people, proud to be american, young folks from 40% to 18% and they point to favoritism in this country and this is it on full display. when it comes to something like this, you have media doing an amazing role of blocking. i'm toggling the channels early this morning and some folks are saying throw the whole thing out. are you out of your damn mind? another investigation, speaking of good news, tammy. i saw something and emily can help with this, if they come up with a diversion, i just heard this term today, hunter biden, temporary sort of could be slap on the wrist if he does a certain amount of things, he would have to stay sober, a lot of things he's not been able to

do. >> harris: and maybe a little jail time. if she sends them back to the table, she can't tell them what to do, maybe they sweeten the deal for the prosecution a little bit with jail time. >> charles: if i'm president biden i call hunter and say, do 13 months in jail because that is what i wrote this law, i was in charge of the senate when this was done. i was going after predators -- >> harris: talking about his dad? >> charles: yeah, this is what we're going to work out, you are going to do 13 months. anything other is slap in the face. >> harris: you know what happens to people in prison. >> charles: they are too arrogant and believe they are above it all and know they are above it all and they have gotten away with it so long, none of us would be different. we would be the most arrogant

despicable people. >> harris: when people get leaned on, they talk. >> charles: they play volleyball all day. >> emily: i am the attorney on the couch and know all this, to clarify here, you are right, diversion programs which we enjoy often in new york cities, recidivists often get them enjoyed here, which is why people are -- noncompliance can break the terms of the plea agreement or send him to incarceration and it is worth repeating, there was zero incarceration associated with the current plea deal. that would be only if terms were changed which we may find out are being done. >> charles: if prison, diversion thing would be score card until

it expires. >> emily: true and unrelated, you would be compliant outside of it. two points issue the opportunity to correct what is developing in this plea deal, i'm calling it opportunity to correct. we know now the american people know, the statute of limitations were purposely stayed. we saw michael avenatti, to ensure statute of limitations ran. hunter biden enjoyed many of them in different venues, running out. this moment, what is at stake in this courtroom and this particular plea deal, it is not everything on the table. a lot of it has already ran and second point, it has been argued haste with which this plea deal was almost achieved was in part because we are coming up to an

election year, which tommy, you have a lot of thoughts on. >> it is clear we think with nature of how hunter has been handled by the white house, they put him in front, this is campaign season. you have to presume this is a campaign and i winced when talking about special prosecutor. this is biden doj, it has been political from the start ranging from donald trump to this situation. we see what they are willing to do on both extremes and both ends. i am not the only person who thinks, will that matter? these people are in on the fix, that has to change. single judge, this is importance of appointments and judges elected founders knew this would be an issue, had to be separation of powers and issue with supreme court and what judges can do and can't do, that

is supposed to be the bull work against what appears to be corruption. i don't know if hunter biden's lawyer put the bong down before he went into the courtroom. helpful to know your lawyer is not on drugs or engaging in something that alters your perception of life. these are people that the judge, she watches the nooses, she -- news and she sees this as incredible flawed. why, why are all these questions still at heart when the government that knows what it is supposed to be doing combined with lawyers for the son of the united states has his own issues, perhaps. as noted, harris, allegations pretending to be something they are not to get something off a

public docket. these things would make a normal person say, wait a minute. for years, nobody has been saying wait a minute and it is time to say enough already and most basic of dynamics that judge is facing. good for her, congratulations. >> harris: i don't know what you had for breakfast, you just took down hunter biden's lawyer that was seen on a balcony with a bong. >> it is rough and i feel sorry for him that is what he is engaging in. >> emily: kara, you worked for the federal governments for a long time, tell us your thought. >> we followed a brief opposing this sweetheart deal. we filed numerous things, foya requests and numerous things and trying to get government agencies to be more transparent. it hasn't happened yet.

i share sentiment with tammy, we might be seeing sunlight be the best disinfectant it is. trying to hold federal government to account and working in tandem with various people on the hill to do this and have thus far been unsuccessful. i don't think it should be just predicated on this person's judge's opinion, it is important, yes, the wheels have been turning throughout public policy organizations like ours that are trying to get after this. american people deserve answers and i think it takes all of us working together in all capacity and day jobs to do this, hope to see the fruits of our labor. >> harris: charlie hurt, i bring you in, i am just getting this from my executive producer on faulkner focus. associated press write-up,

interesting president joe biden son hunter biden plea deal fell apart on wednesday. they have confirmation of this. it is no longer does it look like it is falling apart. yes. this happened after the federal judge expressed concern over related agreement on more serious gun possession charge. it is some of what we talked about last hour, the outcome leaves open temporarily the year-long investigation into hunter biden's business dealings and goes on into how much money was on the table for that. we look at this, there are politics involved and i again, here in studio, it is across every screen. the same thing you are seeing across the bottom of ours and we have been covering the story longer than some in the liberal media and it is almost all of them. today we're all on the same page. >> yeah. imagine what it must be like for

a viewer who has not been informed of all of this important details that we've been talking about for months now. they are just turning on the television set now and for the first time learning about the depth of the crimes that happened here and the corruption. i think it is politically devastating. you have guy like president biden who spent 50 years in washington, amassed enormous wealth on himself and his wife is a school teacher. they have different houses. he's made a tidy fortune for himself and his family and cast himself as lunch bucket joe and scranton joe. lunch bucket joe doesn't have power and ability to force the irs or internal bureau of

justice to hatch a deal with his son to get him off serious crimes. lunch bucket joe doesn't have ability to call secret service and get secret service to run interference when hunter biden's wife dumps his illegally bought firearm into a trash can at a deli in delaware. lunch bucket joe doesn't have this authority. the american people see this and think we have been sold a deal of goods and lunch bucket joe is corrupt joe. the gun charges are interesting and question i can't answer, maybe emily can with legal expertise. most people, if you have a deal like this fall apart, prosecutors turn around and charge you with the most serious charges they can come up with against you to beat running out

of statute of limitations and negotiate back from that and other charges they can go with. they would drop the hammer on this guy before they started negotiating and that would do a whole lot to make sure no more statute of limitations run out and second of all, we the american people as representatived by prosecution would get the best deal possible considering the crimes he's committed. >> emily: that's a great question, to answer it, yes, you are correct. whole point is not only leverage of sentencing associated with felonies, i can't think of one case and emphasized federal white collar specialties in tax evasion cases. i can't think of when a misdemeanor was brought up, it wouldn't have gotten to that

level. it is leveraging to plea deal, which is why there is such a high conviction rate, everyone pleas, the ones se serves 50 yes plus went before a jury of their peers and within the tax division manual, you are unable to allow or account for a misdemeanor if the elements of a felony can be proven. believe me, if is there is something the government takes seriously, all my years as federal and state criminal attorney, it is their notion of a lost dollar. it is their notion of a dollar of the government's being taken away. punch someone on the subway issue murder a bunch of people, no problem. if it is about money and government income, they will come after you with every felony they have. you are right, charles hurt, thank you. now we bring in jonathan turley on the phone right now. constitutional law, law

professor and fox news contributor. thank you. we come to you now for continuing thoughts on this developing story. >> jonathan: this is obviously a seismic development. this was a deal that the irs whistleblowers suggested was fixed, fixed from the beginning and now appears to have run into a roadblock. the thing about plea agreements, from the defense side, the understanding of the defendant has to be on all points the same with the government or the judge will not sign off on the agreement. interesting there seem to be conflicts because the government and defense counsel will go through and make sure they have a very clear and unified

understanding of what the agreement means. the problem with cutting a sweetheart deal, you can't put everything into the deal that is on your mind. many of us view this agreement as an effort to cap off any charges against hunter biden, that is not the usual reason for a plea agreement. so the judge apparently was hitting on weird combagity and other problems in the agreement. this agreement has been years in the making and for it to fall apart, create uncertainty that will make many people in washington distinctly uncomfortable. >> emily: in your experience, generally speaking, incarceration usually begins at a year and a day, to enjoy credit and wiggle room upon

incarceration. have you ever in your experience, issued a misdemeanor after this volume of investigation and this volume of originally expressed charging documents on behalf of the tax division? >> no. there is a couple aspects where you are more particularly right and first of all, by raising tax element, important at outset, tax experts carry a lot of weight in these discussions. the irs whistleblower said that the prosecutor and the investigators were totally onboard with multiple felonies being charged and something happened. what is also problematic, one of the whistleblowers said there was an agreement on the table with hunter biden's team to exfend the statute of limitations for 2014 and 2015

charges, that is key they deal with ukraine. weiss allowed it to expire anyway and it left a lot of us dumbfounded. in what universe would a prosecutor not extend statute of limitation when trying to negotiate a plea. why walk away from two valuable felony while trying to get the defendant to agree to something. weird and unexplained aspects. >> emily: can you respond to the notion from maybe understanding thus far, if the two sides agree this does not shield him from future potential charges, can you explain what that might mean? do these potential future charges include amalgm that hasn't had statute of limitation run or talking about ongoing

current investigation, griff jenkins reported that the prosecution acknowledged was still occurring into hunter biden, jonathan. >> jonathan: this is case of the department of justice being hoisted. the justice discipline need to say there is an investigation to stop giving information, holding back witnesses to congress, they need that element. this judge immediately called them on it and said, well, what is it? the hunter biden team said publicly that they believe this was a close-out plea agreement, which is what i would have negotiated. no way i would agree to plea agreement where we didn't close out the charges. hunter biden people said that was our understanding, there is nothing further involving our

client. that is inconsistent with the doj, using the element to hold off congress thchl is really a problem of the doj's making. they want to cap off this case and end it, but they want to pretend it is ongoing and you can't have ambiguity with a federal judge. >> emily: i have never seen a plea agreement that did not cover all years under question, it provides conclusion and closure for federal government, for administration and for the defendant. something outstanding means the agreement is not right and the amicus brief and for example, the house in congress, might ducktail with line of questioning we are understanding the judge is engaging with hunter biden which then opens door or leaves the door open for the fara offenses, jonathan.

>> jonathan: that is right, absence fara account was the one white house feared most, their son would be defined as a foreign agent and would open up issues. >> emily: harris? >> harris: quick question, jonathan, it's harris. that 11th hour, you know, accusation that simember of hunter biden's legal team would say that person was somebody else to try to finagle something on his behalf, it is like television drama type series stuff, how does that play into where the judge takes a look from 37,000 feet and say i smell something on the ground that stinks from here. does that get baked in? does that matter? >> i think it all gets baked in,

the problem is that it was a wink and nod agreement. courts don't do that, they don't conclude these type of plea bargains with a wink and nod, they want expressed and clear understanding in the court. this is very rare, i would have bet heavily against the judge casting on this agreement. it could be resuscitated, but it is rare and means this agreement was not like anything any of us have seen. they couldn't say what is on their mind. >> harris: i'm getting this from my team, forgive me for interrupting, i'm asked to get this in and peg this on our competitor cnn, hunter biden is telling about foreign companies he worked for, hunter biden tells court foreign companies and judge is asking questions

about the facts included in charging documents. i'm careful with this stuff, they are not supposed to text from the courtroom, may be shared during that lengthy break. the judge, according to cnn reporting asked for names of companies. burisma and mentioned chinese energy company cefc, his ties are under intense sk scrutiny. we have our own reporter on the ground inside meeting with jake gibson, they are working to bring confirmed information. jonathan. >> jonathan: that is the problem with what is happening in washington right now, this whole thing was supposed to be scripted and cap out the case. democratic members have been saying, the whole scandal is over because there is plea

agreement and didn't count on the judge. see justice is done, the public business is done. and she wasn't comfortable with the ambiguity, he is being forced to detail companies he worked for, that will fall into the lap of people on the hill who are pursuing all of these accounts. what we know, there is labyrinth where millions of dollars went to the bidens. if he's talking about burisma, if true, deals with two counts the doj is allowing the statute of limitation to run on. add to the testimony of the irs whistleblower. >> harris: we will talk to charles and reset here. >> charles: i think tammy, your point was probably the best in

the sense, this is wonderful outcome so far, what we've learned so far is revelation. my hope is that the american public will hear it and we'll pick up on it and get true justice in this case, not swept under the rug, the elitists won again. there is a lot to see here. burisma and foreign agent stuff, the big guy, i want those answers. this is almost a diversion to say, put it in a bow, move on this brings influence pedalling to the highest office or second highest office of the land. >> harris: that is not our own confirmed yet, the judge has the same questions you do, charles. good job.

>> this is tip of the iceberg, to go to this degree, to be should sloppy, to be fumbling around, to land in day like this, not their plan, tells you it is not just for hunter biden because of his last name, it is because what is under the ocean, what is under the tip we see. that is what they are concerned about and with panic to move through, must continuing, we don't just have this be diversion we get to rest of what is your honor yoo underneath. >> harris: we reset, it's been three hours since hunter biden and his legal team walked into the courthouse thinking hunter biden would sign a deal that was good for him, a plea deal and this judge would ink it and they would move on. and a gun charge that carried 10-year penalty because it was a felony, for lying on a form that was important, especially at the

time he was known to be a drug dealer and known to try buying a weapon. he lied and said, no, none of that applied to him. got that weapon and tax fraud, as well. with all that, not going to see prison time, he thought the deal was any way you cut it, sweet. that didn't happen today. we are watching three hours after they walked into the courtroom, series of stops and starts. there are no cameras or technology in there, cell phones or that sort of thing. we are dependant in that courtroom, allowing our reporters to come out and tell us what is happening. that is not in realtime, but close enough to let us know hunter biden's original plea deal falls apart. martha maccallum, editor of "the

story" is with us now. martha, three hours nearly. >> martha: this is a busy day, harris, i've been watching you and your great coverage. a lot of implication politically and legally for keeping this can of worms open for the biden's legal troubles and this judge is sfasinating to listen to. she objected when they walked in and didn't want the amicus brief from jason smith to be part of this, they thought this was out of browns. make sure what we're doing is specific to charges and leave open the door, david weiss, the attorney in delaware was still open for ongoing investigation. i think this judge rejected what the biden attorneys hoped would

be blanket immunity for anything hunter may come across basically for the rest of his life or for the period under investigation. basically said no, no, no, that is not how this is going to work, they are making a second plea agreement now and learning she is asking him about the ku678s he worked for, can you name the companies overseas, he said burisma, cefc, this is far from over and no doubt revelation coming out of james comer committee and testimony of the two whistleblowers, for those who say this is political, these individuals came forward on their own volition to say, i was working on this, i saw things that were potentially felonious and they should not be overlooked and we were told poof, this was going away. it has not gone away. >> it hasn't.

i want to add to reporting, i brought this from one competitor, the judge in the courtroom and martha was talking about this. she was asking hunter biden about cefc, the china energy company, i never saw anything on his resume that had to do with energy expertise, he was working it. the judge asked hunter biden, you did know that you owed tax money, right? biden said, yes, your honor. martha? >> martha: yeah. that has been brought together for this second plea deal. you owed $100,000, you didn't pay, that can be part of this agreement, she was not happy with the gun agreement, that

deal may go by the wasteside. the form asks if you are taking drugs and he was not forthcoming about the fact he was during that time period. it leaves open room for further jeopardy for him. one big question i've asked all along is how was he doing all of this business with ukrainian and russian and other country's companies without having fara? the foreign agency allow him to do this work. that is what paul manafortgot slammed for, he had not registered as a foreign agent. this question has been swept under the rug. people have gone to prison for that. >> emily: martha, it is emily, as we approach presidential election around the corner and you, one of our top political analysts, our question involves

how you feel this will be spun and how the party and left wing media will frame this? this state judge was appointed by president trump. there are multiple threads because of that reason and that association. underscoring the haste with which this plea deal was trying to be achieved to be concluded before the upcoming election. what are your thoughts on that? >> it is becoming a very thick, soupy pudding they are waiting through at this point. you have concern about joe biden's age, you have legal concerns which are very real, we put a lot of meat on the bones over last couple weeks, comer committee over the course, there is a lot more political pairel here. on the air with you guys, maybe a little while ago, harris said this is good day for gavin

newsom. you will see heads perking up issue raising their hand. i'm available if this blows apart. >> harris: that was last hour. >> it is worth thinking about, there is nervousness among voters, 60% of them do not want biden to run. this is far from a slam dunk for this incumbent president >> a lot will happen between now and then and make other democrats look at this and say is this worth it? >> harris: a little bit about -- >> emily: i think he said republicans see this as being about joe biden, whereas democrats see this being about hunter biden. martha. >> martha: that is what you hear a lot, i was talking to juan williams yesterday on "the story," and he he was a drug addict, it is difficult for him. at the time, what is he doing on

the board without expertise for either area. only thing he had to offer them was some proximity to the vice president and awareness to share with them, only thing he could have shared with them. no, he has lots of experience, he's a brilliant guy. now everybody is falling back to, he was just a drug addict, we feel sorry for him, his family feels sorry for him. that is fine and good, all families go through these things. when nexus is dealing with foreign countries, that are adverse aerial to the united states while your father is serving as vice president of the us. that combination is back off, this guy had trouble. >> harris: martha, we have concentrated on the gun charge and not enough on the money and the judge is leaning on that portion about the dealings he was doing with different

countries, say this about the judge. you know, we haven't said much about this judge, appointee of former president donald trump and presiding over this case that the justice department brought against joe biden's son, hunter biden. when it comes to gun, i found this detail. last august this particular judge presided over case of jeremy johnson of wilmington delaware, she sentenced him to five years in prison for having a gun. she may have wanted to take a look at the gun part of the plea deal based on recent experience and adjudication she's done. >> martha: yes, she set a precedence in her courtroom, it

is incumbent to look at them and see if there are parallels to consider. it is possible that gun part of the issue, takes a second stage to the larger tax issue which looks like they are bringing down from 2014 to 2019, anything after that, obviously open to further potential litigation. remember all of this came up when the laptop was found, this started this ball rolling. before that existed, there wasn't a lot of evidence to dig into. that was a very difficult moment for the entire biden family. has brought out all what happened here, payments made to nine different family members, which you mentioned earlier. it's a big story and we have to place pies and look one piece at a time. it is part of a very large pie. >> harris: martha, we will let you go because the big story

comes on at 3 p.m. eastern with you, "the story" with martha maccallum. we appreciate you being here. we will be watching you. take a look at the federal courthouse outside of wilmington, delaware issue not a lot ever activity going on. what griff jenkins showed us how intense media coverage is and his photographer was able to pan over and show us what awaits hunter biden and his legal team and the prosecution as they come out of that courtroom. we don't know when that will happen yet. i watch the police and guards to see their moetion, they are not moving right now. we'll be on it, left screen on your tv or mobile device. charles. >> charles: it is interesting thinking about this. we've got monitors and see every

network on it. the media went from denial, what kind of story is this anyway, to maybe it is a story, it is a hunter biden story to whoa, it is wall to wall, everywhere now. all of a sudden, you know, by the way, blue print they use for so many things, deny it, sweep it under the rug and you have to admit it, be it past point of being consequential news story. sympathy part is one thing i heard today. he's a crack addict, so let's give him -- i know a lot of crack addicts who don't get breaks. they got -- so we need to get to the bottom of this and >> and i think martha's point it started with the laptop is a good one.

i testified in december of 2021, i brought up the hunter biden laptop i was laughed at by a democratic representative, now we are seeing it's a truth, good for republicans for winning in 2022. now they have subpoena power, set the conditions for this to happen, it's great. >> lightning fast. >> the left always talks about privilege and racial privilege and i have yet to hear the left talk about hunter biden privilege. now undeniable. it goes back to a social economic dynamic. >> privilege and arrogance. >> that's right. >> again, just to under score, deducted business expenses, sex club dues and strip club payment and this is the grace he's then afforded. his attorney gets to smoke a two foot bong from a street, and the gravity of the charges he should have faced were it not for the machine that has covered up

everything is a slap in the face to every american. it remains to be seen whether there is justice at all. >> if i'm ever in trouble, i want emily for sure. all right, thank you so very much for watching our coverage. it continues because they have not come out of the courthouse yet as they figure out what is next for the president of the united states' son hunter biden. "america reports" now. >> john: harris, thank you, breaking news this afternoon, live pictures from the white house and the left-hand side of the screen, and the federal courthouse in delaware. any moment now john kirby and karine jean-pierre set to face questions after an absolutely stunning turn of events in court where hunter biden's controversial plea deal apparently has fallen apart. hello, john roberts in washington. sandra, we did not expect it was going to go this way. >> sandra: a lot of twists and turns, i'm sandra smith in new york. this is "america reports." we mayls