be debating, yours. we'll be debating, discussing and at times we will disagree. but no one will be cancelled. so joining me in the next hour , broadcaster and next hour, broadcaster and journalist danny kelly, and also broadcast reporter christine hamilton, the dastardly duo. but in a few moments time, i'll be going head to head in a clash of minds with former home office adviser claire pearsall and also former editor for the labourlist, peter edwards. of course, that will be the clash that's coming up at four. my monologue making the case for the conservatives to stick with rishi sunak, for goodness sake . rishi sunak, for goodness sake. then at 5:00, my outside guest now she has appeared in ex on the beach, signed by katie price and celebrity big brother, and who do you think she is that's coming up in the next hour? in a moment, you've got to work out who she is. if am i outside? then coming up this hour, what has happened to our universities? they used to be the bastion of free speech, but now they couldn't be further from that. but before we do all that, let's get your latest news with tatiana sanchez.

>> gnaana. >> gnaana. >> thank you and good afternoon. the top stories this hour , the top stories this hour, shadow health secretary wes streeting says doctor dan poulter has not been offered a peerage to defect from the tory party to the labour party. mr streeting has defended doctor paups streeting has defended doctor paul's decision, saying it shows only sir keir starmer can be trusted with the nhs. conservative mp doctor dan poulter said he'd sit on the labour benches until the general election and then stand down. the decision comes just days before local elections across england and wales on the 2nd of may. the prime minister has again this morning refused to rule out a general election in july, amid speculation a disastrous set of local election results for the tories could force his hand. wes streeting says doctor poulter isn't defecting to save his seat. rather he's defecting to save the nhs . the nhs. >> there have been millions of people disaffected conservative voters like dan poulter out there, who can see the chaos,

and the conservative party see the failure to deliver and are looking at the alternative. and i'd ask those people to trust the doctor who's seen the conservative party up close has seen the changed labour party of keir starmer up close and has decided that ultimately we need a labour government in this country to get our nhs back on its feet, to turn the economy around and to make sure that we can look to the future with hope and optimism again. >> meanwhile, policing minister chris philp defended the government's handling of the nhs , pointing to record levels of spending . spending. >> just in the last year alone, the nhs has grown by 68,000 staff and there are today 70,000 more doctors and 21,000 more nurses than there were a year ago. and tens of thousands of people each year are fleeing the welsh run nhs . sorry, the labour welsh run nhs. sorry, the labour run nhs in wales to have treatment in england. the waiting lists the proportion of the public who are on either

very long waiting lists or indeed the proportion of the pubucin indeed the proportion of the public in wales on a waiting list at all, is higher , list at all, is higher, materially higher than it is in england. so on any measure, the labour party are doing a terrible job. >> in other news, former immigration minister robert jenrick has called for a cap on net migration , claiming a far net migration, claiming a far more restrictive system is needed. more restrictive system is needed . jenrick wants a cap of needed. jenrick wants a cap of less than 100,000 a year, arguing that's the only way to restore voters trust. writing in the sunday telegraph, he says the sunday telegraph, he says the government's recently passed rwanda bill will soon join the graveyard of policies that failed to tackle illegal migration. but called legal migration. but called legal migration a bigger scandal. >> the last 30 years, politicians of all stripes have promised controlled and reduced immigration only to deliver the opposite . and the public are opposite. and the public are rightly furious at what's happened. it's placed immense strain on housing, on public services, on community cohesion, and it hasn't improved the economy . what we're proposing is economy. what we're proposing is that we return to the tens of

thousands, but unlike previously, we have a cap. so parliament itself votes for a democratic lock so the public can have a degree of confidence, which they don't have today, that when politicians say these things, they mean it. >> well, that is more than 900 channel migrants have crossed illegally into the uk in less than a week. that's according to the latest home office figures . the latest home office figures. official figures show 359 migrants crossed in eight small boats just yesterday. gb news captured this exclusive exclusive footage yesterday . 51 exclusive footage yesterday. 51 migrants had to be rescued after their small boat ran aground on a sandbank off the kent coast. northern ireland's first minister has called for a thought out response to people who seek asylum in ireland after travelling from the uk. the irish government claims there's been a shift in migration patterns in recent months, with the number of migrants crossing from northern ireland into ireland higher than 80. the

comments come as rishi sunak said that shows the deterrent effect of his rwanda plan is working, because people are worried about coming here. the alba party msp , whose vote could alba party msp, whose vote could be crucial to scotland's first minister, says it's time to build relationships. but she also says the price of her support will be higher as humza yousaf dithers . she says ash yousaf dithers. she says ash regan hasn't confirmed how she'll vote in the motions of no confidence at holyrood next week, writing in the sunday mail, she said she will only use her vote in the way that'll be best for scotland. meanwhile, yousaf is asking leaders of rival parties to find common ground with the snp as his leadership hangs in the balance. it comes after the collapse of the snp's power sharing deal with the greens . and finally, with the greens. and finally, royal news the duke of sussex is returning to the uk in just over a week to attend a ceremony marking the 10th anniversary of the invictus games. it will be the invictus games. it will be the first time prince harry is back in the uk since his visit

to see the king after his cancer diagnosis in february, and is the first major event he'll attend in the uk for some time. he'll be at the service of thanksgiving at london's saint paups thanksgiving at london's saint paul's cathedral on the 8th of may, where he'll provide a reading at the event marking a decade since the inaugural event in 2014. for the latest stories, you can sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or you can go to gb news. comment hurts now it's back to . nana. back to. nana. >> good afternoon. it's fast approaching seven minutes after 3:00. this is gb news live on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua now. universities are no longer the home of freedom of speech. when i was at uni, all those many , many years uni, all those many, many years ago, it was a place where people went to experiment with everything and all views were on

the table . life was about the table. life was about learning new things, but these daysit learning new things, but these days it seems that universities have become a breeding ground for indoctrination , and many for indoctrination, and many students appear to lack the ability to think critically or comprehend another point of view. the other day , jacob view. the other day, jacob rees—mogg was met with these scenes so -- so for those listening on radio, thatis so for those listening on radio, that is jacob rees—mogg . he's that is jacob rees—mogg. he's walking towards the car and he's surrounded by students . he's surrounded by students. he's there haranguing him and they're all holding pro—palestine and palestinian flags. it's absurd that the cars sort of pulling away with these people still sort of almost clinging to the sides of it. it's ridiculous. all because he was a speaker at their university, and only this

weekend . across parts of the weekend. across parts of the world, universities have been gnpped world, universities have been gripped by a pro—palestine ideology. they've literally been captured . what on earth is going captured. what on earth is going on? but then are we surprised? what can you expect when you got people like this teaching our kids at harvard ? kids at harvard? >> does calling for the genocide of jews violate harvard's rules of jews violate harvard's rules of bullying and harassment? >> yes or no ? >> yes or no? >> it can be, depending on the context. what's the context targeted as an individual? targeted at an individual. >> it's targeted at jewish students , jewish individuals . students, jewish individuals. >> i mean, seriously, it's been a slow motion creep that has come to light over the last, i'd say, about five years, with professors like kathleen stock being hounded out of her university because she believes that sex trumps gender. of course it does. and teachers like the one at batley and spen still in hiding over a depiction of mohammed. now i blame the woke cotton covered liberals who believe that everyone has a

right to come first. they don't. the wokerati who tell parents that you can never smack your children. i'm not talking about beating or hitting, but a good parent are made to feel bad for instilling loving discipline. what on earth has happened to our universities? what have they done to our kids? are they captured for. good? so done to our kids? are they captured for . good? so before we captured for. good? so before we get stuck into the debates over the next hour, let me introduce you to my clashes. joining me today is the former editor of the labourlist, peter edwards, and also former government adviser claire pearsall. so here's what's coming up in today's clash. can there be a case for mass migration being an asset to the economy? we'll discuss that in an hour's time then. is it time for the tories to change their leader as mp, doctor dan poulter, leaves the conservative party and picks up the labour whip? has prime minister rishi sunak lost control of his party? can anyone save them from election embarrassment ? save them from election embarrassment? i save them from election embarrassment ? i don't save them from election embarrassment? i don't think so.

even with the tories in a mess, can you then trust labour leader sir keir starmer after the leader of the opposition u—turns on other pledges, such as the party's green policies ? will he party's green policies? will he keep his latest one to keep the triple lock ? and how long can triple lock? and how long can the scottish first minister cling on to power? with snp leader humza yousafs government falling off the rails after losing their power sharing agreement with the greens? can he turn things around or is he destined a fall from grace ? tell destined a fall from grace? tell me what you think on everything we're discussing. get in touch @gbnews .com forward slash your say or tweet me @gbnews . right. say or tweet me @gbnews. right. so it's time for the clash. and the question i'm asking is freedom of speech allowed in uk's universities? let's get started. let's welcome again to my panel editor of the labourlist, peter edwards, and also former government adviser claire pearsall wright. claire pearsall. i'm not going to start with you. what on earth is happening to these universities? do you mean did you go to

university? i didn't you didn't? no, no , i missed out on that. no, no, i missed out on that. >> i don't think they would have liked me particularly. i went out straight out to work at 18, but i understand from friends of mine that you you get into a kind of like an idealistic mode . kind of like an idealistic mode. when you go into university, you're there, you're going to change the world. you're going to free everybody, you're going to free everybody, you're going to do whatever it is at that moment. and i think that the peer pressure surrounding people at universities is enormous. i think that's now been taken up several notches with these really divisive and very serious debates that we need to have in this country. people are taking a very basic viewpoint. they're taking a stand on one side or the other without actually understanding the context of what it is they're discussing now. universities really should be there to expand and open individuals minds. be there to expand and open individuals minds . you should be individuals minds. you should be there to learn more and to enjoy learning . but unfortunately, it learning. but unfortunately, it just seems that quite a lot of views are going unchallenged.

people are allowed to believe they're completely right. but i think that this is a fault of the education system in its entirety, that you don't allow people to be wrong, you don't ever tell them no, and you don't allow them to be disappointed. and i think this is what we're seeing is the ultimate , seeing is the ultimate, crescendo is that people go to university believing that they know absolutely everything, when really they know nothing at all, and they're not prepared to learn. >> fixed mindset. peter edwards, what do you think ? what do you think? >> i don't know if it's a fixed mindset. i mean, your monologue you lump together lots of different things. and obviously when people well, that's how i do them. yeah. well let me answer the question. first of all, when you quoted the school, i can't remember. >> i think it might have been in yorkshire where the allegations of, defacing an image of the prophet muhammad, that's very different to free speech at university. >> so jacob rees—mogg, i think it was this week you played the footage, clearly it's right to have a ferocious argument, but it mustn't cross over into intimidation. >> and i was interested even jacob rees—mogg, who was there,

said this was a free and fair debate. it was very robust. and he basically said i defend their right to protest . and it's other right to protest. and it's other people, including the conservative party, who said it went too far. we'd all agree there shouldn't be intimidation, definitely shouldn't be throwing four letter words at jacob rees—mogg as a nothing happened. but on that particular debate in cardiff, jacob rees—mogg said it was kind of legitimate. >> well, he might well say that. but a baying mob following him if he didn't have security and protection, i'm wondering how that would have turned out. so i don't really think. i mean, that's quite intimidatory. there's no way, even if jacob rees—mogg is extremely polite and i think he was actually being very, very fair from what you can see, there are a mob of people swearing at him and saying offensive things. that's not really acceptable . if you not really acceptable. if you want to have a debate and a discussion, that's great. but throwing out all the swearing words and intimidating people, i don't think that's right. >> well, intimidation is wrong and some of that i must stress, i've not seen it all looked intimidatory because, as you say, we've, generally, unless you're in really high office, have a good, healthy british

tradition of where higher ranking politicians can really go around and they'll have a research or a spin doctor. they won't and generally don't need security. but we've had some horrific events in recent years that have made us revisit that, jacob rees—mogg, rees—mogg is a backbencher and if, say, there's him, a researcher and 20 folk all shouting at him , i probably all shouting at him, i probably would find that a bit intimidatory. so good on him for being so even handed, because even though i don't agree with him on much, he does value a free and fair debate. >> yeah, i think i just wonder what's happened these days though, because it seems that, there doesn't seem to inability to critical think and i've lectured around schools a lot, so i did before i you know about the last year. i was doing it for about eight years, going to different schools and talking about critical thinking and all over the country. and it was interesting that a lot of the kids only thought what their parents thought, and they weren't really open to suggestions of different ideas. and it does feel that it's something that has actually started at a lot earlier age. what do you think the catalyst for that would have been? we're

all a product of our parents to all a product of our parents to a certain degree, but whether it's going to university or becoming a teenager, then, you know intellectually you and you're going to work and having to pay tax is a massive adjustment as well , reality, you adjustment as well, reality, you develop your your own ideas, relationships and other. but i'd slightly question the idea that free speech has been shut down at universities because i think they've obviously been a small number of cases where university authorities said, you mustn't do x, y and z, but i think they're the ones that get picked up by the ones that get picked up by the media. and i think in most universities there is still a free and fair debate the vast majority of the time. >> do you think that's that's clear? i mean, remember there was that one in oxford university or was it cambridge where they wanted to take down pictures of royal images because it would reinforce colonialism and upset other people around them? i mean, it's that's why them? i mean, it's that's why the lord balfour portrait that was ruined in the common room, in the common room, but also i think you get the de—platforming of individuals which which has to be wrong. >> you cannot censor views just because you think you disagree with them. and this is what we're for . with them. and this is what we're for. here we're here for

debates. you want to be able to listen to somebody else's point of view. and i don't think that students are encouraged to do that. they're very steadfast in their agreement. and we've all been teenagers . we all think we been teenagers. we all think we know better. we all go against what the popular or what your parents point of view is, and you come up with your own, even if it's completely off the wall. but you're not encouraged to challenge that these days . and challenge that these days. and that's what i find really disappointing. and i think that jacob rees—mogg, in all fairness, was exceptionally good at saying i defend these individuals right to have their views and to shout them loudly. but when it comes into intimidation, if you cannot stand there and get your point across without swearing and issuing threats, then you've really lost that argument and that side now does look very much as though they've lost the plot, that they are turning into a group of individuals with no point. and that's a shame, because i think we need all sides of the argument. but when they behave like that, it's really easy now to just dismiss them. >> yeah it does. it does seem that they've lost the line where the line is that you cross into

from a debate and a good argument into that, which to me looked like intimidation and shouldn't really be allowed. i know jacob was very polite about it. he said that, you know, that they were having a good discussion, but i think chasing somebody, sort of to their car with placards and swearing, i just that wouldn't work for me. but what do you think? gb views get in touch. gbnews.com forward slash your say. this is the clash. i'm nana akua just coming up to 18 minutes after 3:00. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. coming up. is it time humza yousaf went after his worst week of his leadership yet? but next, should the tories replace rishi sunak before

? good 7 good afternoon. if you're just tuned in. welcome on board. this is gb news. we are the people's channel. i'm nana akua. and it is the clash . right. so i'm is the clash. right. so i'm asking, should tories, should

the tories change their leader before the next election? as former health minister doctor dan poulter defects to the labour party over the government's handling of the nhs. has prime minister rishi sunak lost control of his party since the last election? the conservatives parliamentary majority has been cut from 80 to 41. literally, they've lost almost 50% of their seats after almost 50% of their seats after a series of raids , ignatians by a series of raids, ignatians by elections and defections. so what do you think? should the tories change their leader to save them from further embarrassment? or would that just be even more embarrassment ? just be even more embarrassment? so joining me for the clash to discuss former editor of the labourlist, peter edwards, and also former former government adviser claire pearsall peter edwards. >> now the tories have got to stick with rishi sunak. there'll be a laughing stock if they had another leader. what labour wants is a general election, and i actually think most of the tories recognise this. i do think rishi sunak will lead the tories into polling day whenever that occurs. and also it's a bit of a david miliband gordon brown situation getting if you were

the candidate, the tory candidate that took over , from candidate that took over, from rishi sunak to be, quote unquote, a fag end prime minister for three, 4 or 5 months, you're a bit of a footnote in history, aren't you? >> well, i mean, it's an interesting footnote because you'll be at the end of all the embarrassing footnotes that have come before you. claire pearsall i >> -- >> no, no, we can't we can't go through this whole beauty pageant of choosing another leader. i mean, what is it going to achieve? we've had three. and just because people don't like them, it doesn't mean that you can just get rid of them without actually going to the country. i think that we've pushed the limits as to what the public are going to accept, and it's realistically the public that should choose who the next prime minister it is. it's not up to the conservative party to install somebody that they like at that moment, in the vain hope that it's all going to get magically better. i think that labour have a real problem at the moment is that they're not looking like a real party in waiting to go into government. this is not a 1997. in that respect . they're not ready to respect. they're not ready to go. they're not inspiring . and i

go. they're not inspiring. and i think a lot of people, when you talk to them on the street, just say we don't want any of them. they're all as bad as each other. >> no one thinks it's a 1997 moment because britain is in kind of an unhappier and certainly poorer state. whatever the reason , you put that down to the reason, you put that down to pandemic, brexit or the government or anything else, i think labour look a lot more serious. they did a few years ago, they got people like rachel reeves , starmer, wes streeting, reeves, starmer, wes streeting, who have a bit of gravitas about them. john healey , the shadow them. john healey, the shadow defence secretary. that's not always been the case in the last decade.i always been the case in the last decade. i think the other point that claire hints at is that governments can lose elections, but also oppositions have to win them . and that's when, you know, them. and that's when, you know, difference between struggling over the finishing line of a majority of 10 or 20 versus getting a really large number. so it is labour's twin, but they do have to do it. and that's why every time a labour person goes on tv, they say no complacency. but keir starmer has been very fortunate. i mean, he's sat around and things have just fallen off for him. so even though he's said some ludicrous

things like, you know, agreed. he said the woman doesn't have a penis or 99.9 or 99% of them don't, or whatever it was that he said, even though he said some ridiculous things. the fact that the tory party are in such a mess, it's all of that has been kind of hoodwinked. and we've just moved on and focused on the tories. so the labour party, you know, now they're doing a lot of u—turning. he's talked about the triple lock. we'll talk more about that, in a bit. but do you think that the tories actually have any hope? is there. >> there's always hope. there is always hope. and the one thing that you can be sure of is not over until people have voted. and it's 10 pm. on whichever day that the prime minister has chosen for the election. so there is always hope. what i find worrying are the amounts of people who say they don't know how they're going to vote, or they're just not going to turn out. and i think complacency in that respect is really, really dangerous for all sides. but they need to be given something to choose from. and at the moment, the conservative party are busy fighting each other

more than anything else. and the labour party are busy putting out policy ideas. and then you turning on them really, really quickly and making a mess of pretty much any kind of detail as to what it is that they can offer. that should concern a lot offer. that should concern a lot of people is that they cannot decide on a policy , be cannot decide on a policy, be cannot tell you how it's costed and then see when push comes to shove and there's some scrutiny, it's u—turned on immediately. >> i challenge the idea that keir starmer is lucky. remember labour when he took over, had lost four elections in a row row and was polling about 25. and whatever your view is of jeremy corbyn, i think we can all agree he was not successful as leader. no. so i don't buy the idea that keir starmer is just a lucky, you know, he is johnny on the spot. >> i think he is. i mean look what's happened in scotland transformed the party so much he has done literally he's just sat there as everything's falling around, around his ears and he's just waited for it. i mean, look what's happened in scotland, for example, with humza yousaf, a lot of people can't help it, but it kind of rolls useless, sort of rolls off the tongue. sorry,

humza, but you know. but what do you think? so? because with regard to that, should scotland's first minister, should he go? should humza yousaf go? the leader of the snp is rallying troops as he faces a vote of no confidence. humza yousaf continues to battle for his job at the top of the scottish politics, after a power sharing agreement with the green party fell apart. or one that he well, i think he dismantled it, didn't he, leaving him in charge of a minority government. so should he be the biggest person or the bigger person and simply just step down? i'm not thinking that's going to happen , but that's going to happen, but claire pearsall is it time for him to go? he's in the hands of ash regan, who? he said that he didn't miss her when she left. what was the word that he used? >> yeah, she it was no great loss, no great loss. and now we come to the ultimate irony that she is the one that pretty much holds the balance of power as to whether he stays or not, i don't think he should resign . i think think he should resign. i think he should face up to the vote of people in his own parliament and see what the level of anger is. i mean, he has been dealt a really bad hand, but he's also

played it very, very badly. >> didn't have to carry on with the gender recognition reform. >> that's what i mean about he has played it very, very badly. there are a lot of things he could have done, but he set himself up as the continuity candidate and unfortunately, if that's what you're going to be, then you are going to take the fall with it. going into coalition with the greens, i think was always fraught with dangen think was always fraught with danger, especially given the economy in scotland and the oil industry being inextricably linked. yeah, absolutely. so if you're looking at that note theory, but also ignoring the fact that so many jobs are dependent on it, and that's a very, very proud industry. but he also talks more about gaza than he does about glasgow. and i think the people of scotland really do deserve better when it comes to their politics. i think he needs to stand there and face the music, otherwise he will never understand quite what it is he did wrong. >> what do you think should should he just clear off now? >> i think he's finished politically. >> he's finished, isn't he? >> he's finished, isn't he? >> there's always a case for fighting on. we've all met failure in life in some capacity or other. i think it's important

to preserve your dignity. but in terms of what actually happens next. and he could survive the week. but remember, theresa may won a confidence vote and still stepped down and going back a long way in 1990, margaret thatcher, i think she she certainly got through the first round. and remember she gave that press conference with bernard ingham. i fight on, i fight to win so you can get an okay result in a confidence vote. but really your days are numbered anyway. >> yeah, i mean humza yousaf, but this is what i was saying about keir starmer. what's happening now? he hasn't controlled this humza yousaf has made a mess of it, frankly. and now it looks like there is an opportunity again for scotland. >> it's a bit more than that, if i may say. like let me finish. >> there's another opportunity again for the labour party to reclaim a lot of territory back in scotland. >> it's a bit more that i mean, i've got friends in scotland and i've got friends in scotland and i visit every year pretty much. and, you know, talk to different people. they're not all labour folk at all. people in scotland are fed up with the state of pubuc are fed up with the state of public services, and that's gone from alex salmond to nicola sturgeon to humza yousaf. so yes, he may have played his hand badly, but the decline in public

services in scotland has been going on quite a bit longer than merely the last 12 months. >> well, that, of course, is true, but he , you know, he true, but he, you know, he hasn't done anything that is good, that is affected. it really he hasn't done anything good about it all. he's talked about a lot or all. all we've heard about are a lot of the culture or issues, the hate crime legislation, which is totally unreleasable . i mean, totally unreleasable. i mean, that was a ridiculous thing, him being the most hated in the end. i mean, well, yeah, i mean, i think those are vexatious reports, but but your point. no, that's not that's true, it's true, it's true . there were true, it's true. there were a thousand complaints a day. then by the end of the week, there was 7000 people complaining the police had agreed or humza had said that all, all of them would be investigated. i spoke to morag, a 74 year old woman who was arrested by the police because of a spurious claim by neighbour. >> well, that's really daft. and politicians of all stripes have got to remember that it's not their job to got to remember that it's not theirjob to run got to remember that it's not their job to run the got to remember that it's not theirjob to run the police, their job to run the police, that operational discharge of police duties, to use a very bonng police duties, to use a very boring phrase, it meant decided by chief officers not politicians who are driven by the electorate. but your broader

point , which the electorate. but your broader point, which i do agree with, which is that scotland's got all these problems , the drug death these problems, the drug death capital of europe, and they're not focused on the priorities. >> not at all. well, we could say that about a lot of them around here, not just the scottish parliament, but if you've just tuned in, welcome. it's just coming up to 31 minutes after five, 3:00. sorry, i'm nana akua. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. still to come. is it a victory for women after it emerged that transgender ideology in hospitals is set to be banned ? but first, let's get be banned? but first, let's get your latest news with ray addison. >> thanks, nana. good afternoon. >> thanks, nana. good afternoon. >> it's 330. shadow health secretary wes streeting says doctor dan poulter has not been offered a peerage to defect from the tory party to labour. >> mr streeting is defending doctor poulters decision, saying it shows only sir keir starmer can be trusted with the nhs. doctor poulter says he'll sit on the labour benches until the general election and then stand down. it comes just days before

local elections across england and wales, and the prime minister refusing again to rule out a general election in july. former immigration minister robert jenrick is calling for a cap on net migration , saying cap on net migration, saying it's the only way to restore voters trust . jenrick says he voters trust. jenrick says he wants a far more restrictive system allowing less than 100,000 people a year. writing in the sunday telegraph, he said the government's recently passed rwanda bill will, quote, join the graveyard of policies that failed to tackle illegal migration well. meanwhile, more than 900 channel migrants have crossed illegally to the uk in less than a week. that's according to the latest figures from the home office. 359 migrants crossed in eight small boats yesterday. gb news captured this exclusive footage . captured this exclusive footage. 51 migrants there had to be rescued after their small boat ran aground on a sand bank off the kent coast , ran aground on a sand bank off the kent coast, and the alba party msp, whose vote could be

crucial to save scotland's first minister, says it's time to build relationships. ash regan hasn't confirmed how she'll vote in the motions of no confidence at holyrood, but says the price of her support will be higher as humza yousaf dithers. usaf is asking leaders of rival parties to find common ground after the collapse of the snp's power sharing deal with the greens . sharing deal with the greens. write for the latest stories sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code. it's on your screen right now or go to gb news. common shirts back to . nana. >> thank you ray. coming up in the next hour , we will cross the next hour, we will cross live to speak to the host of the politics people podcast, paul duddridge. stay tuned though. this is the clash.

welcome back. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua now we're discussing keir starmer and his latest triple lock. do you believe that keir starmer actually . means business when actually. means business when he's talking about the triple lock? now the labour leader makes another promise, despite u—turning on many of his pledges. if his party gets into number 10, the leader of the opposition says that he'll keep the state pension triple lock. but can you trust him to not change his mind? so to discuss this going head to head in the clash, my former editor for the labour list, peter edwards, also former government adviser claire pearsall victor edwards . i'm pearsall victor edwards. i'm going to come to you first. listen, keir starmer has done many a u—turn. he said he's going to keep the triple lock because probably he wants the pension vote because that's a large vote. they're usually more conservative. do you believe that he's telling the truth on this, or do you think we can trust him? >> of course i believe he's telling truth and i do trust him. i'll give you a couple of

reasons. so first of all, i think the public trust him a lot more than they do some other politicians, because he's had a fairly steady poll lead. that doesn't mean labour will win. but if your poll leads are around 20, that implies a level of trust among the electorate. so that's based on the facts. there's also a more cynical view which you hinted at, which is pensioners vote in quite high proportions. and it's very interesting that politicians of all stripes do change your mind. but also politicians of all stripes have retained the triple lock. so i'm certain if labour win, he'll retain the triple lock, just as tory chancellors retain the triple lock because pensioners vote. what do you think claire pearsall. he's he's u—turned more than you can ever imagine. the green energy policy was his big 128 billion. and that was definitely going to happen. and then when he realised it would destabilise the markets it . the markets it. >> well it was liz truss that destabilised the markets. >> well no we're talking specifically about your green energy pledge though, because it was unfunded . was unfunded. >> shocker. and i think this is the problem, is that the labour party are coming out with an awful lot of promises to things like keeping the triple lock, which is incredibly expensive . which is incredibly expensive. so he's going to have to

continue that for some years or is he going to go down the road of keep it for the election and then bin it a year later? but you've also got the problems of all of the other spending commitments that his government or government in waiting seems to be making, and now, if you're going to have the windfall tax paying going to have the windfall tax paying for an awful lot of things four times over vat on private schools, that's meant to be paying for several different things every time i look at something else. non—dom tax status, non—dom tax status. but and then you've got you want to nationalise the railways. well that also is going to take a very large amount of money isn't going to save anybody anything . going to save anybody anything. and there's a spectacularly bad idea. so you think, well okay, so out of all of this, where are you getting the money from? if you're if you're keir starmer and you're saying that the conservative party are not handung conservative party are not handling the economy very well, but then you are writing an awful lot of checks that your bodyis awful lot of checks that your body is not going to be able to cash doesn't that make you more irresponsible in the long run? i

think this is purely we are in an election year. the triple lock is going to be incredibly popular with an older population who do turn out to vote, whether it be postal vote or physically going to their polling station. they are the demographic that do so, and not all of them will be labour supporters. but they may well be, that sort of, don't know, category . and that's what know, category. and that's what they're going to look for. but i do think the public will going to be very, very disappointed should keir starmer end up as prime minister. these things will have to will have to go by the wayside. you can see it already with the amount of times he's flip flopped on all these policies. >> i mean, claire makes a good point. he has flip flopped a lot. and, you know, people want to have we all want to have someone we can trust to vote for. and i myself personally, i'm politically homeless. so i don't particularly have a party that i'll be voting for. i don't none of them have convinced me and i'm personally not convinced that he won't change his mind because he keeps doing it. okay, so to walk through it based on the facts leads the opposition generally imposed for about 4 or 5 years. >> david cameron had five years

of leader of the opposition on his core economic policy of will match tony blair, gordon brown's spending plan. he changed his mind unutterably because of the economic conditions at the time. so he's fair enough that any leader of the opposition, rather than being dogmatic, changes their position as the economy changes. their position as the economy changes . but take one example. changes. but take one example. because claire reeled off a few things, rail nationalised asian, now i'm sure everyone knows if they don't rail franchise is are about five, six, seven, eight years. they're not forever and they'll expire so they can just roll back into public ownership without anyone having to write a big check to do so. the other thing so briefly about rail nationalisation , and claire was nationalisation, and claire was quite critical of it. it's not just popular among the general public, it's even popular among conservative voters. yeah, i, i there are massive, massive problems with it won't there. >> there will be costs attached to it. and it also isn't going to it. and it also isn't going to bring down the ticket price, which is always the promise that is made that ticket prices will become lower. well, no they won't because that's not going to be able to happen. you still need the investment to go back in. but also the problem with nationalising it is that you're bringing it then into line with things like the nhs and

education and any other public service that we depend on is and it's going to add rail into demanding money out of a pot thatis demanding money out of a pot that is going to get smaller and smaller, unless you're going to increase taxes. so unless the labour government in waiting says we're going to need to raise taxes because we want to nationalise all of these industries, we want to bring them back into public control. you have to be able to pay for them. and if you're going to put on one side, pitting the nhs off against education, off against trains for who gets the money, that's not going to work. it's going to break down the country . going to break down the country. and i think that they need to be really honest, that they cannot afford it and they will have to put up taxes, which is something that they always shy away from. >> well, labour has said they won't , raise income tax won't, raise income tax obviously. no. no one can raise national insurance now because jeremy hunt , whether you agree jeremy hunt, whether you agree or not, has changed the political climate. and our national insurance. but to go back to claire's point, the

analogy between health schools and trains does not stack up at all. so to give one massive distinction , train companies or distinction, train companies or say a regional train company owned by the state can generate their own income by selling tickets and by selling advertising space and so on. and so on. an nhs trust, which is kind of federated, although it's controlled by the health secretary, generates almost no income, does it maybe has a bit of land it can rent out. it they're just not the same to say schools and hospitals and trains , are run in the same way from whitehall. >> i think the point she's making is that a lot of these promises that he is making. so with regard to schools and with regard to trains , i mean, a lot regard to trains, i mean, a lot of them, he'll probably end up retracting or going back on well, which he has done. so that's why the question is whether we can trust him on this. so we're not comparing them and saying they're the same. she's saying that all these things that he's saying is going to get the money off of this, then he's going to do this. none of it really makes much sense. and now we're coming

to this triple lock and we're saying, can we trust him on it? >> we can definitely trust him. but remember, all government departments, regardless of who wins the election, are in competition for taxpayer resources. that's just a fact of life that is a fact of life. >> yes, to throw even more people into that pot. so if you have a pot of money, government departments, if you are then going to be starting to run railways at the same time. yes they will generate some income. there's a taxpayer subsidy already we are paying. >> no one should think that any of us taxpayers are not paying for the railways. we're paying through fares and there's a taxpayer subsidy. so we're already paying through the nose, but only part of it. >> and that's the problem. so you let out the franchises, you know, i mean , this is sort of know, i mean, this is sort of the free market at work. i'm not suggesting that the franchises are perfect because they really aren't. and i think that the government had a really good idea with the great british railways project and having somebody in overall, control of what goes on on the railways. but it isn't quite as it needs to be. it isn't beefed up , it to be. it isn't beefed up, it doesn't have enough teeth. i

think if you just give it to the state, then you're going to leave it to go to rack and ruin because it just isn't enough to money be able to split between all of the needs. well, it will need investment. >> he's got a lot of commitments that he's going to apparently get into, and he's used that non—dom tax status. i think about 100 times now. the private school, the tories pay policy are so good. well they may have done, but they probably won't be in power, although the tories were against it up until that point. >> they're in favour of it. >> they're in favour of it. >> well, probably the non—dom tax status though, isn't the point i was trying to make with it before you interrupted me was that he was using that to literally pay for everything. that's the point i'm making. not about whether the tory party, whether it's a good or bad policy. but it's been coming up. my policy. but it's been coming up. my monologue on the changing leaders of the tory party. but next is it a victory for women after it emerged that transgender ideology is

for 48 minutes, after 3:00. if you've just tuned in. where have

you've just tuned in. where have you been? it's fine . you've got you been? it's fine. you've got just over two hours left. that's good. with the nhs, though , is good. with the nhs, though, is cracking down on transgender ideology in hospitals. if you've just joined me, i'm nana akua. this is gb news. we are the people's channel. and this week health secretary victoria atkins. i know keep up who was before her was a coffee stephen barclay. oh stephen barclay was it before him? any guesses, it was jeremy hunt and doctor therese coffey. >> that's right, that's right, that's right . because they've that's right. because they've beenin that's right. because they've been in and out, haven't they? i get a bonus point for that. i do actually. yeah. so victoria atkins now this is another one will set out a series of proposals including banning transgender women from single sex female wards. now to discuss this . joining me in the clash, this. joining me in the clash, former editor of the labourlist, peta edwards , also former peta edwards, also former government adviser claire pearsall , peter edwards, i'm pearsall, peter edwards, i'm coming to you first on this. do you think about that? >> i can see both sides. i want trans people to be treated with dignity, and trans people will break their arms and get coughs and colds like the rest of us.

and i want them to be treated with dignity when they use nhs services. but i also think , services. but i also think, however much it may have been overblown, there were some nhs trusts that made some seriously bad decisions, and that my belief in that is underpinned by the fact that. >> what do you mean bad decisions? like what? >> for example, putting, trans people on, single sex wards , i people on, single sex wards, i think is very unwise. i also think is very unwise. i also think that using a word like chestfeeding, oh, god, that's terrible baffles me. and i really want trans people to treat with dignity. but men cannot give birth, and that's just a fact. and i think it wasn't all trust. we got to be clear there 1 or 2 things put on nhs websites that seemed really unwise. but men cannot give birth and essential truths like that really have to underpin all their sensitivity and flexibility the nhs should show. >> would you think, as well? this is in my view, and i've spoken to many trans people, they would say. many of them said that they have a mental health condition, that is trans people i've spoken to and i can name some of them if you really

want that. but that's that's my view. that's their view. a lot of people share that. i'm surprised the nhs aren't sort of looking after that side of it. and the mental health of these people rather than saying, oh, you can go on to a female ward, it just seems like madness. as a trans woman is a biological man. there is a biological difference and it surely in a hospital biology matters . biology matters. >> yeah, absolutely it does. it absolutely does. and when you start looking at maternity services, removing the word woman from any literature, then you have to wonder what on earth is going on. and peter's right. it isn't every single hospital trust. but there are some. and these are big institutions, asians who are suggesting that, you know, people . with ovaries. you know, people. with ovaries. well, okay, well, women, why don't we just say it? why are we so afraid of this? and i think the nhs has got to the point where it is forgetting it is there to treat people. it is not there to treat people. it is not there to treat people. it is not there to have some kind of political ideology. and i'm really supportive. i think victoria atkins is fantastic. i think she's doing a really good job with this by saying, just

cut the nonsense, treat people with respect , and nobody wants with respect, and nobody wants trans people to feel that they can't get treated in hospital at all. absolutely not. everybody needs to be treated with respect. but to really dumb down the fact that women can't be seen, women can't be heard, and they can't have their own departments for varying different illnesses, which only apply to female . well, then apply to female. well, then i think that's where we've gone wrong. absolutely awfully wrong. when you disabuse the public of the word woman. >> well, it's also there's no real evidence that trans people have been treated badly in hospitals anyway. it's not that thatis hospitals anyway. it's not that that is the case. usually you go to hospital, you're treated as a person, as a human being, and maybe the staff member might not be as nice to you as they could be as nice to you as they could be or whatever, but it's not. it wouldn't be because you're trans or something like that. i don't know whether that is a thing. so i kind of think that we put these obstacles and imagine, oh, somebody who's trans will be treated badly in hospital. so we need to make a special provision for you. don't somebody who's trans should be treated the same

way as somebody who isn't a human being, as a human being, but biology matters in a hospital. and that is that it's really simple. >> biology matters. but i think we all have to accept that the health service is political to a certain extent because one, it's spending taxpayer cash. there's not political issues, but, spending taxpayer cash involves political choices because it's who you help. and obviously people around the nhs want to help everyone, but you have to, deliver . you have to identify deliver. you have to identify priorities and then deliver on them. so i think the nhs is political and we just have to not award level, not ward level, ward level. absolutely. >> you know, obviously , you >> you know, obviously, you know, with the at the top level where you've got the head of the nhs , amanda pritchard, head of nhs, amanda pritchard, head of nhs, amanda pritchard, head of nhs england and people like that, that is the political angle of it. that's the political arm of it. it's more than that. but on the wards, this isn't politics, this is just treating people and being real about biology and biology m atters. matters. >> biology matters. but how you spend taxpayers money, i think , spend taxpayers money, i think, is a political decision. and that's why i think it's good that's why i think it's good that nhs trust tries to be on

the front foot and think about, i'd imagine, i haven't been a patient and i'm not a health specialist , but patient and i'm not a health specialist, but think about prostate cancer. black men have had much worse outcomes from prostate cancer and a much higher incidence of prostate prostate cancer. so that's an area where you want an nhs trust to be proactive in identifying people at risk. so i think there are political choices. every time you spend a pound of taxpayers money. >> well, i don't really see what that's got to do with it. i'm a bit confused as to why i don't think it needs to be political, and i think your point is right, that on the front line you are there to treat individuals. >> it doesn't matter where they come from, who they are, what colour they are, what gender they are. it just it that's what they're there to be treated. and you shouldn't have any of that nonsense coming in that you can't say someone's a woman . absolutely. >> well thank goodness. and yes, it's a win, but we shouldn't have to be thinking about a win on that because it should be pretty obvious. i find it absurd that it was even a thing that you would be questioning whether somebody who is a man biologically should be sharing a ward on a female ward. it just

doesn't make any sense. but if you just tuned in. welcome on board. this is gb news on tv, onune board. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. still to come, the great british debate this hour and i'm asking, is migration good for the economy ? stay tuned as well. my economy? stay tuned as well. my monologue is on the way. but next up, it's the weather with marco. pete i can't even read that. are they helping me? but it's not helping. thank you. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello. here's your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. over the next few days, we hold on to a rather unsettled weather conditions across the uk, but we will also see a gradual rise in temperature. low pressure is on the scene at the moment and it's this weather front towards the northeast of the uk that's bringing some outbreaks of quite persistent rain, quite coupled with quite tightly packed isobars. so quite a blustery feel to the weather as well. and we do hold on to outbreaks of

rain across the far north—east of scotland heading into the overnight period. elsewhere, there'll be some clear spells for a time, but the showers out towards the west and southwest certainly do gather into the early hours of monday , turning early hours of monday, turning quite heavy and becoming more organised by the morning. on monday itself could see a touch of frost in 1 or 2 very sheltered spots. but on the whole it's a frost free night and into monday we'll see an east west split much as we did on sunday, but this time it's the east. seeing the best of the weather out towards the east and southeast of the uk. here we'll see some sunshine at times and mostly dry weather, whereas out towards the west quite a few showers. from the word go. they become more widespread and quite heavy at times. here also affecting other northern areas. as we head into the afternoon in the best of the sunshine, it will be warmer than on sunday, particularly towards the southeast. highs of 16 or 17 celsius nearer 12 to 14 degrees towards the north, which is close to the seasonal average. as for tuesday, well again it's the east that will fare best with the best of the dry and bright weather at times was out towards the west. a good again, a good rash of showers. those showers merging to longer spells of rain at times. it does stay fairly unsettled during the week ahead with showers at times, but

nofice ahead with showers at times, but notice those temperatures also rising into the high teens or low 20s. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. weather on. gb news. >> you're watching and listening to gb news on tv , online and on to gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. do not go anywhere because more is to come in the next hour. i'm going to start with my thoughts on the changing of the leaders of our main parties, in particular the conservative party. surely not. again

good afternoon. it's 4:00. hello, and welcome to gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua. tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua . and for the next i'm nana akua. and for the next few hours, me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headlines. right now. this show is all about opinion. it's mine. it's

theirs. and of course it's yours . we'll be debating discussing .we'll be debating discussing it. at times we will disagree, but no one will be cancelled. so joining me today is broadcaster and journalist danny kelly, an and journalist danny kelly, an and also author and broadcaster christine hamilton. but my monologue think rishi sunak do you think he should be replaced ? you think he should be replaced? it could be worse of modern britain in all its diversity, compassion and strength that was shared around the globe . shared around the globe. >> and it said something about us. >> us. >> it said i love that. then at five, this week's outside guests. now she's appeared in ex on the beach, signed by katie price, and celebrity big brother. who is she? you'll find out at five. then before we get started on all of that though, let's get your latest news with ray addison . ray addison. >> thanks, nana. good afternoon. one minute past for our top stories. shadow health secretary

wes streeting says doctor dan poulter has not been offered a peerage to defect from the tory party to labour. mr streeting is defending doctor poulters decision, saying it shows only sir keir starmer can be trusted with the nhs . doctor. porter with the nhs. doctor. porter says he'll sit on the labour benches until the general election and then stand down. it comes just days before local elections across england and wales, and the pm refusing to rule out again this morning a general election in july. wes streeting says doctor poulter defected to save the nhs. >> there have been millions of people, disaffected conservative voters like dan porter out there, who can see the chaos and there, who can see the chaos and the conservative party see the failure to deliver and are looking at the alternative. and i'd ask those people to trust the doctor who seen the conservative party up close has seen the changed labour party of keir starmer up close, and has decided that ultimately we need a labour government in this country to get our nhs back on its feet, to turn the economy

around and to make sure that we can look to the future with hope and optimism again. >> well, policing minister chris philp is defending the government's handling of the nhs and pointing to record levels of spending just in the last year alone, the nhs has grown by 68,000 staff and there are today 7000 more doctors and 21,000 more nurses than there were a year ago . year ago. >> tens of thousands of people each year are fleeing the welsh run nhs. sorry, the labour run nhs in wales to have treatment in england. the waiting lists the proportion of the public who are on either very long waiting lists or indeed the proportion of the public in wales on a waiting list at all is higher, materially higher than it is in england. so on any measure, the labour party are doing a terrible job. >> former immigration minister robert jenrick is calling for a cap on net migration, saying it's the only way to restore voters trust. mr jenrick says he

wants a far more restrictive system, allowing less than 100,000 people a year. writing in the sunday telegraph, he said the government's recently passed rwanda bill will, quote, join the graveyard of policies that failed to tackle illegal migration last 30 years. >> politicians of all stripes have promised controlled and reduced immigration only to deliver the opposite . and the deliver the opposite. and the pubuc deliver the opposite. and the public are rightly furious at what's happened. it's placed immense strain on housing, on pubuc immense strain on housing, on public services, on community cohesion, and it hasn't improved the economy. what we're proposing is that we return to the tens of thousands , but the tens of thousands, but unlike previously, we have a cap. so parliament itself votes for a democratic lock so the pubuc for a democratic lock so the public can have a degree of confidence , which they don't confidence, which they don't have today, that when politicians say these things , politicians say these things, they mean it. >> meanwhile, more than 900 channel migrants have crossed illegally to the united kingdom in less than a week. that's

according to the latest home office figures, 359 crossed in eight small boats yesterday. gb news captured this exclusive footage of 51 migrants who had to be rescued after their small boat ran aground on a sand bank off the kent coast . northern off the kent coast. northern ireland's first minister has called for a thought out response to people who seek asylum in ireland after travelling from the uk. the irish government's claiming that there's been a shift in migration patterns with migrants crossing into ireland from northern ireland higher than 80. the comments come as rishi sunak said that shows the deterrent effect of his rwanda plan is working because people are worried about coming here. the alba party msp , whose vote could alba party msp, whose vote could be crucial to save scotland's first minister, says it's time to build relationships. ash regan hasn't confirmed how she'll vote in the motions of no confidence at holyrood, but says the price of her support will be higher if humza yousaf delivers .

higher if humza yousaf delivers. meanwhile, yusuf is asking leaders of rival parties to find common ground after the collapse of the snp's power sharing deal with the greens . and finally, with the greens. and finally, the duke of sussex is returning to the uk in just over a week to attend a ceremony marking the 10th anniversary of his invictus games. it will be the first time that prince harry is back in the country since the king's cancer diagnosis in february . he'll be diagnosis in february. he'll be at the thanksgiving service at saint paul's cathedral on may the eighth, and is expected to provide a reading at that event . provide a reading at that event. for all our top stories, sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or go to gb news. com slash alerts. back now to . nana. back now to. nana. >> thank you. ray. it's just coming up to seven minutes after 4:00. this is gb news on tv onune 4:00. this is gb news on tv online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua . oh, god. let's go

nana akua. oh, god. let's go round again. panel. maybe we'll turn back the hands of time. >> let's let's go round again . >> let's let's go round again. >> let's let's go round again. >> one more time. >> one more time. >> no, one more time. oh, god . >> no, one more time. oh, god. one more time. oh, god. listen, there's talk of the conservative party changing leader before the next general election, which is rumoured to be soon. but this tory tenure has been like a carousel since david cameron , carousel since david cameron, who ran away after he didn't get what he wanted over brexit. we've had theresa may, who did a disastrous job running back and forth around eu leaders in her kitten heels. how can we forget her dancing at that ill fated conference where she lost her voice and the letters fell off the wall behind her? i mean, that says it all. then someone even handed her a p 45. that says it all. then someone even handed her a p45. oh, god. but since the last election won by boris johnson on the premise of getting brexit done, although

some would argue the british people were done with this current tepid version of it, boris, who gave them a stonking 80 seat majority, was ousted. they the tory party, decided they could do better and what followed can only be described as a six week comedy carousel, a farce in which liz truss, voted in by the members, was hounded out in what i believe was a plot to instil their man. rishi sunak liz sadly lasted just 49 days, outlived by a lettuce . despite outlived by a lettuce. despite her being the party members choice, rishi then took over. there was literally no point actually for them. this whole leadership election, in my view, they were going to put him in anyway, but it hasn't worked out, has it? because they did not understand the electorate and why boris had such a fan base and was such a hit. charisma which none of them have, but the changing of the guard has been the general gist of this government. let's take a look at the home secretaries. okay, so throughout the last 13 years of tory rule, previous

holders of this role include theresa may, mp for six years, amber rudd for two and sajid javid for just one. amber rudd for two and sajid javid forjust one. now amber rudd for two and sajid javid for just one. now that was over nine years, but since the last election we've had priti patel in 2019 to 22, we've had suella braverman , casey, by the suella braverman, casey, by the way, don't you know 2022. and in the same year grant shapps and then back to suella braverman again. and now if i missed anybody, it's james cleverly. i can't keep up. and what about what about health secretary liz after taking over from jeremy hunt? matt hancock was health secretary under boris johnson since then. well, they've had pretty much 4 in 1 year. that was sajid javid from 2021 to 22, steve barclay in 2022, therese coffey in 2022. then back to steve barclay in the same year and now it's victoria atkins. i mean, no wonder the nhs is in

such a mess . please no more such a mess. please no more unelected prime ministers were fed up of it. they've turned the uk and indeed themselves into a laughing stock. the tory party have made their bed. they must lie in it . have made their bed. they must lie in it. come on, sing along panel lie in it. come on, sing along panel. oh, let's go round again. let's go top again. >> well let's go round again . >> well let's go round again. >> well let's go round again. >> one more time. >> one more time. >> no, no , not one more time. >> no, no, not one more time. >> you can't get anything done if you keep moving people from job to job. it's just like moving the deck chair. sadly, on the titanic , it's irresponsible the titanic, it's irresponsible and likely to put off existing and likely to put off existing and potential voters. please stop. the british people deserve better. just get on with the job and let us decide at a general election . in. renee i forgot election. in. renee i forgot they were doing it again. listen, before we get stuck into the debate, here's what else is

coming up today. as former immigration minister robert jenrick tells the tells camilla tominey, high levels of immigration are putting a strain on the economy, housing, public services and community cohesion. for the great british debate this hour, i'm asking, do you believe that mass migration is good for the economy? then at 450, it's world view. we'll cross live to los angeles to speak to paul duddridge, host of the politics people podcast , on the politics people podcast, on what's going on in the states. plus, we'll get an update from israel with uri geller at five. it's my outside guest now . she's it's my outside guest now. she's a mystery. she appeared in ex on the beach side by katie price and celebrity big brother. those are some of the clues . more will are some of the clues. more will be on the way that is coming up in the next hour. as ever as even in the next hour. as ever as ever. tell me what you think on everything we're discussing. get in touch gbnews.com/yoursay or tweet me @gbnews . right tweet me @gbnews. right before we get started and speak to the

panel joining me now for an update on the leadership and everything else. as gb news political correspondent olivia utley . olivia, thank you so much utley. olivia, thank you so much for joining me. now we have had forjoining me. now we have had news, potentially, that penny mordaunt could be someone that they may try and put in place for the leadership . are these for the leadership. are these rumours or is there some substance to them? >> well, for a while now there's been a core small group of rebel conservative mps, about 15 or 20, who think that the only way for the conservatives to avoid a complete unmitigated disaster in the general election is to get rid of rishi sunak before the general election, and install someone like penny mordaunt. now they haven't really been able to garner much traction among the wider parliamentary party over the past five months or so. most people in the party think that, yes, rishi sunak is doing badly in the polls , but the idea of in the polls, but the idea of installing another conservative leader, what is it, fourth or fifth in as many years would make the party look completely

farcical. now, though , these farcical. now, though, these rebels think that they might be be on the verge of making it big in the wider conservative party why? because there has been this defection. dan poulter mp has defected to the labour party and that obviously lowers morale on the government benches and means that the rebels have a bit of a cause. they adds fuel to their fire, if you like. so i think over the next few weeks we can expect to see those rebels whispering around on the back benches , encouraging other benches, encouraging other backbenchers into the tea rooms with them and trying to persuade them to back this plan to get rid of sunak and install mordaunt personally , i don't mordaunt personally, i don't think it's going to work. it is just possible that if the local election results next week are as disastrous as is predicted, there could be some more letters of no confidence sent in about rishi sunak . of no confidence sent in about rishi sunak. it could even of no confidence sent in about rishi sunak . it could even reach rishi sunak. it could even reach the 52, letter mark, which would trigger that vote of no confidence. but i think it is

very likely that even in those circumstances, sunak would win. and the idea which rebels seem to have that sunak would stand aside if it got to the point of aside if it got to the point of a vote of no confidence, even if he were to win it, i don't think is right. rishi sunak has, has been implementing policies over the last few weeks. the rwanda policy, for example, his plans for the economy, which he thinks are going to come to fruition later in the year. he wants to see this out to the bitter end. why would he stand aside before the flights to rwanda have even taken off, after putting so much effort into that policy plan? so my instinct is that rishi sunak will cling on. but i think over the next few weeks we will hear a lot more talk about penny mordaunt, and possibly we could see a few more rebels coming out of the woodwork and showing their true colours. >> olivia utley . thank you very >> olivia utley. thank you very much. rishi sunak is not going anywhere. i can't see him doing that. thank you very much, olivia. she's gb news political correspondent. right. let's welcome again to my panel, political commentator, christine hamilton . that's a bit posh. hamilton. that's a bit posh. you're not really, are you? very

posh? >> yes, i'll go with that. >> yes, i'll go with that. >> that's not you. that's too posh for me. yours is a author of a broadcaster. i'm a housewife and a housewife. we love that in. and also danny kelly, author and journalist. that's a christine author, are you not? >> well, look, we'll go back . i >> well, look, we'll go back. i wrote i remembered that 20 years ago. i wrote a cookbook and it was a pamphlet cookbook of basic , basic food. >> what's the difference between a bucket of pamphlets? just a thin little thing. >> yeah. it's just. yeah, probably a bit like the author. the little thing he wishes it. beg your pardon? no. it was to do with putting weight on food. cookbooks was about food, christine. it wasn't a diet . books. >> no, but you get cookbooks for people who want to lose weight. >> cookbooks? >> cookbooks? >> can we put it? it wasn't. it wasn't. it was all stodgy , right wasn't. it was all stodgy, right calorie laden stuff. right? >> right. >> right. >> bring us one next week. >> bring us one next week. >> yeah, we'd love that. >> yeah, we'd love that. >> it's out of print. yes. >> right. christine? yes. what do you think of this? another carousel. another potential leader. even the fact that they're talking about it. i'm concerned. >> i find it completely astonishing that they're even talking about it. it shows how

desperate they are. you mentioned how many? i think you said how many. home secretaries you've had. do you know we have had ten education secretaries in the last i was going to do them. i mean, you won't even remember half of them. i mean, it is just mind boggling. all these revolving doors, some of them, of course, have been forced on whoever the prime minister was at the time because people, people resign, etc. but, i mean, it's an absolute nonsense. people need time to get into . people need time to get into. it's no wonder that some of these great departments of state are in a in a mess. people need time to get into their job. you can't suddenly be thrown into defence or education or home office . office. >> well, also, what do you know if you're watching different platforms? how much do you actually know? you know, victor escoffery, you know, what does she know about i don't know, i think we've had enough tory leaders for a while, i think so, i think that's my last word on danny kelly when they ousted bofis danny kelly when they ousted boris johnson. >> it's so obvious now. but just looking back, they should never have got rid of boris johnson. >> you know i said that. >> you know i said that. >> but what they didn't know when they all felt this, this, this moral virtue to oust boris johnson and to give him a no confidence. what they didn't

realise all these conservatives at the time is that basically they were scuppering the party. they didn't know this at the time. >> boris. no, i knew you knew most people watching reform gained traction a hell of a lot of traction in the last, say, 12 months, 14 months, something like that. >> reform are going to basically scupper the whole tory party. you know, labour are going to have a landslide because reform is an alternative to conservatives. that alternative wouldn't have been there had bofis wouldn't have been there had boris johnson remained at the helm. it may have been there, but it would have been much more of a fringe alternative and, you know, they are turkeys and they're voted for christmas and they've been gobbled up and that's where they are. you need someone charismatic , you know, someone charismatic, you know, he can charm the birds from the trees. borisjohnson he can charm the birds from the trees. boris johnson and that was part of a personality. and people who hate boris johnson. they say, well, it's not about personality. it is, i'm afraid . personality. it is, i'm afraid. but i'm afraid it is. it is, it is. >> a lot of is.— >> a lot of it is. yes >> you're so okay. >> you're so okay. >> he he we all know what his bad points are. let's not list them. but the charisma. >> he's a people person really outweighed all that. >> and my boy, could they do with it now? >> well, they really could. listen, what do you think? at

home? gbnews.com/yoursay or say this is gb news. i'm nana akua coming up for worldview two. we'll cross live to los angeles, but next it's time for the great british debate this hour. and i'm asking, do you believe that mass migration is good for the economy? i've got to pull up on x right now asking you that very question. get in touch right now. gb news.com formula say

it's just coming up to 21 minutes after 4:00. welcome. i'm nana akua, this is gb news. we are the people's channel. it's time now for the great british debate. this hour. i'm asking, do you believe that mass migration is good for the economy? now earlier, former immigration minister robert jenrick told camilla tominey that it's taking its toll on the country last 30 years. >> politicians of all stripes have promised controlled and

reduced immigration only to deliver the opposite. and the pubuc deliver the opposite. and the public are rightly furious at what's happened. it's placed immense strain on housing on pubuc immense strain on housing on public services, on community cohesion and it hasn't improved the economy. what we're proposing is that we return to the tens of thousands, but unlike previously , we have a unlike previously, we have a cap. so parliament itself votes for a democratic lock so the pubuc for a democratic lock so the public can have a degree of confidence, which they don't have today, that when politicians say these things, they mean it . they mean it. >> it's a shame that you actually need to do that, though, isn't it? there should be able to have an actual number. i don't think that's an issue. i'm just wondering why every target they have, they've missed anyway. but the latest official estimates show that net migration in the yearjune official estimates show that net migration in the year june 2023 was 672,000, and it's projected that the uk population could go up that the uk population could go ”p by that the uk population could go up by a massive 6.6 million by 2036. i mean , can we sustain 2036. i mean, can we sustain that? we haven't even got enough

houses and everything else for the people who are here. so for the people who are here. so for the great british debate, this houn the great british debate, this hour, i'm asking, do you believe that mass migration is good for the economy? joining me now is former sunday mirror editor paul connew, the research director at the centre for migration control . robert bates, professor azeem ibrahim, author and academic. in my and also my panellists peter, edward and also claire pearsall. okay, right. i'm going to start with you, professor azeem ibrahim, what are your thoughts on this mass migration? is it a benefit? is it a net benefit ? benefit? is it a net benefit? >> i think robert jenrick is absolutely right. you know, we really do need a cap on this. >> it migration is very good for the country, but only when it's controlled migration, not mass migration when you have, when you've lost control of your borders, you know, one of the reasons why the united states, the world's largest economy has been so successful is simply because they've had a secret weapon , which was the h—1b visa, weapon, which was the h—1b visa, which is also known as the genius visa for very people, people of very high skills ,

people of very high skills, extraordinary skills, which they have basically brought into the country. >> we are unable to implement a policy like this simply because we've lost control of our borders. we have no control of who comes into the country and who comes into the country and who stays here. >> and as we enter the age of migration, this is only going to be exacerbated . be exacerbated. >> we really need to get a control of our borders so we can implement a more intelligent migration policy that's actually going to benefit the economy. well, robert robert bates now a lot of people talk as though we need all the more migration. we keep hearing we need more migration , more migration, migration, more migration, because we need people to do the jobs that the british people won't do apparently, is this true? >> no, it's not true. >> no, it's not true. >> and the key example of that would be the health care sector, which we're constantly told would absolutely collapse just because young brits aren't going into the profession, if you actually look at the data on the ucas website, ucas reports , you ucas website, ucas reports, you see that the number of brits are actually applying to do those roles that we're told, you know,

just would, would be, would be left vacant if, if it wasn't for mass migration, there's thousands of people that are applying every, every single year and just being turned down. so we have the capacity already here to meet these needs. but that would obviously inquire require investment, it would require investment, it would require training. and that's something that the british economy just doesn't seem to be geared towards doing at the moment. >> providing because it has been weaned over the last 30 years onto cheap overseas labour. >> a lot of people voted brexit because and i was one of them. i didn't like the fact that it felt like the wages were being pulled down because of mass migration . that was my thoughts migration. that was my thoughts on it, paul, do you think looking at this, that robert jenrick is right, looking at this, that robert jenrick is right , that we do jenrick is right, that we do need to actually have a cap on numbers , sensible migration numbers, sensible migration policy of course. >> but rishi sunak is betting the farm as the americans say, in its re—election hopes, though they are on his rwanda policy,

which is a gimmick. >> and funnily enough, the last office of national statistics survey put put immigration at number seven on the public's priorities. >> well below the cost of living, the nhs and social care, climate change and housing. >> so i don't think that rishi sunak can actually bear too much hope that rwanda is going to actually stem the, the slump in the opinion polls and turn the electoral tide. of course , of electoral tide. of course, of course we need migration, not no one supports, in fact, gang sending people across on on dinghies. but we haven't got a coherent immigration policy and also we but we do need migration in many fields. we're an ageing population, like it or not. >> and we and much of the care sectors and in the nhs and other

areas to, you know, rely on, on migration. >> but of course the problem with migration , you also need with migration, you also need which labour at least have seized onto . seized onto. >> you need a better housing policy because that's right, in many ways a less concerned about migration, other than the fact that that it it plays into a housing crisis. >> so you need you need to square that circle. >> but paul, what you said about rwanda , though, a lot of people rwanda, though, a lot of people are saying that it's starting to work because there are elements of it that appear to be working. i'll get claire pearsall to just respond to that because, what do you think about what paul is saying? >> i part of what paul is saying is, right, that you need a coherent, immigration strategy, migration strategy, and you need to understand where your need for workers is coming from, how many you need and how long you need them for. and we've been there before, when we've had a cap of the tens of thousands and

it didn't work, especially when you looked at the health care sector. you reach the limit on the number of people that could come in and the health service was absolutely crying out for people. so you need to look at the flex that you have within your own system. and can you do it now? the government hasn't really understood what it wants. its immigration system to be, and i think that we all are in danger of conflating legal migration into those coming over illegally . and they are very, illegally. and they are very, very different things. they are very different things. they are very different things. they are very different problems to sort. now, the rwanda plan, on the one hand, could well be a deterrent. we don't know because the planes haven't taken off now. i doubt it and i've always been consistent on this. i don't think it's going to work. it doesn't have the capacity in order to make a difference. >> but but it's not about the capacity, is it? it's the deterrent effect. >> but it is about the capacity. because if you are, if you are only looking at a 1 in 25 or a 1 in 50 chance of being sent

there, then you're still going to make that journey. >> well, it's a starter though, isn't it? and actually it's not. it's going to be one of the solutions. i mean, after all, where do you send somebody who doesn't appear to have anywhere else to go if they fail your migration, your asylum process? peter edwards yeah, i mean, i think we've got to keep immigration asylum separate, but robert jenrick, the former immigration minister, is essentially running a campaign to be the next leader of the conservative party. >> so that's one of the reasons why he's talking about this. and one of the reasons why he did a heavily photographed trip to texas in terms the actual policy of the british economy. however, people feel about it. and there's a completely legitimate question about pressure on pubuc question about pressure on public services, school places, house building, doctors waiting lists and so on. the british economy is reliant on immigrant laboun >>i laboun >> i don't know no it isn't. i mean the british economy. i don't believe that peter edwards, there's more british people working than people who come in from other countries to take to, to do those jobs . so take to, to do those jobs. so i think that's a bit of a stretch to say that this country is

reliant fully. i mean, do you feel perhaps heavily sorry? yeah. >> go on, i said, not fully , but >> go on, i said, not fully, but but but heavily. >> it we can't actually produce enough doctors. >> i mean, it's harder to get into medical school now even with the right grades. so we're cutting back on on medical school places , and yet we have school places, and yet we have in the far right people arguing, arguing. >> oh, we just need british doctors, that is. >> hold on a minute. you just you're talking about the far right. as if that's not quite true, because if you think about it right, you're going somewhere like africa. you're going to take the doctors from africa. is that better? are you in a are you you know, you're thinking that that's a morally better position than insisting that british people do the job. it's not really . not really. >> is it morally, morally? probably. probably not. but if we're talking in terms of british politics, i mean, dan porter's resignation, you know, yesterday or defection to laboun yesterday or defection to labour, i had a i had a message

from one tory mp who was quite largely pro sunak, but saying that porter's defection is a disaster for the tory party. and that combined with with a disastrous local election results next thursday, will will actually certainly spark another challenge to rishi sunak. well, we'll see to replace him now, but we'll see about that. >> but i want to get azeem in on this mass migration, because i often hear that people say that, oh, the far right and this and that. and, you know , we should that. and, you know, we should be taking doctors from other countries. surely that's worse . countries. surely that's worse. >> yeah. no, absolutely. >> yeah. no, absolutely. >> you know , one of the this is >> you know, one of the this is a multi—pronged problem , one of a multi—pronged problem, one of the reasons why we're importing such low level skills, people, is that we have a population of our own. >> that's basically many of them are unwilling and unable to work for a wide variety of reasons.

and my home city, for example, in glasgow you have 19% of the working age population are out of work. and other cities in the united kingdom, like blackpool , united kingdom, like blackpool, the percentage is much higher, around 25. and the cost of this to the economy is just so substantial . so this is substantial. so this is a multi—pronged problem, is that those low level skilled jobs in the care sector and the health sector, you know, the local population is just unwilling and, you know, to undertake them. so we have to sort that out from that front. >> we also have to have full, a full reform of the, you know, the health and social sector. >> there's just no, no other way around this. so this isn't just about migration. we're simply importing migrants , you know, importing migrants, you know, because the local population is just not willing to do a lot of these jobs. >> well, robert, it does seem that the bottom line is the net benefit isn't really working out because it ends up that in the end, even though we think we're helping ourselves, at the end of the day, they're not a net benefit. robert, your final

thoughts? yes >> and under this conservative government, the, the immigration system is shifted overwhelmingly towards being made up of non eea migrants that official studies the migration advisory committee's own studies show, are a net cost. >> the idea that migration that we're talking about is just doctors and it's just, you know, highly skilled chemical engineers and things like that just isn't the case. >> it's low skill, low value, no real contribution, no boost to productivity, anything like that i >> right. >> right. >> so final word yes or no from each of you , do you believe mass each of you, do you believe mass migration is good for the economy? yes. or no? paul connew i >> -- >> what -_ >> what do you mean by mass migration league controlled legal. yes or no migration? yes. which is what also what starmer is arguing. >> so we're going to the news. so i just want a quick yes or no if you can. so you're not sure you're robert bates. yes or no. is it good or bad. no. claire pearsall. yes or no? good or bad 7 pearsall. yes or no? good or bad ? no, peter edwards, if you can't migration , the economy

can't migration, the economy will be smaller. well, that's not it's not a yes. and final word to azeem . yes or no? it's word to azeem. yes or no? it's not good. no. >> absolutely not. it has to be controlled migration. >> well, listen, thank you so much for all of your thoughts. lovely to get you all on. thank you so much. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. coming up, we'll continue with the great british debate. i'm asking, do you believe mass migration is good for the economy? you'll hear the thoughts of my panel still to come outside. we talk highs, lows and lessons learned. i've got a mystery guest. she appeared on ex on the beach, signed by katie price and celebrity big brother. who is she first, though? let's get your latest news with ray. >> thanks, nana 433. shadow health secretary wes streeting says doctor dan poulter has not been offered a peerage to defect from the tory party to labour. mr streeting is defending doctor poulters decision, saying it shows that only sir keir starmer can be trusted with the nhs . can be trusted with the nhs. doctor. poulter says he'll sit

on the labour benches until the next general election and then stand down. it comes just days before local elections across england and wales and the pm fusing once again today to rule out a general election in july. well, meanwhile, labour says rishi sunak needs to wake up and realise that his migration plan is not working. this, after home office figures show that more than 7000 people have arrived illegally by small boats so far this year. labour's shadow immigration minister, stephen kinnock, says his party will crush the smuggling gangs and make sure, quote, that those with no right to be in the uk are swiftly returned . former are swiftly returned. former immigration minister robert jenrick is calling for a cap on net migration, saying it's the only way to restore voters trust. mrjenrick says he only way to restore voters trust. mr jenrick says he wants a far more restrictive system, allowing less than 100,000 people a year. writing in the sunday telegraph, he said the government's recently passed rwanda bill will, quote, join the graveyard of policies that

failed to tackle illegal migration. the alba party msp, whose vote could be crucial to save scotland's first minister, says it's time to build relationships. ash regan hasn't confirmed how she'll vote in the motions of no confidence at holyrood, but says the price of her support will be higher as humza yousaf quote delivers. usaf is asking leaders of rival parties to find common ground after the collapse of the snp's power sharing deal with the greens . write for the latest greens. write for the latest stories. sign up to gb news alerts . you can scan the qr code alerts. you can scan the qr code on your screen now or go to gb news. common alerts

i >> welcome back. this is gb news on tv , online and on digital on tv, online and on digital radio. let's continue with the

great british debate this hour. i'm asking, do you believe that mass migration is good for the economy? well, let's speak to my panel on that . so i'm going to panel on that. so i'm going to ask danny kelly, christine hamilton, is it good for the economy ? economy? >> christine hamilton well, it's good and bad. i mean people go on about there are jobs that immigrants do that we won't do. well, frankly, there are so many people sitting around on their backsides getting benefits. they should jolly well be made to do these jobs if we got more of our people back to work. some people seem to think the covid is still going on and they can't work. but no, i mean gdp has gone down in recent years, whereas if the immigrants were really good for the economy, it would have gone up, so no, i think obviously in certain sectors, i mean, for example, the higher education sector would be decimated if they didn't have foreign students in our universities. but then the counter side of thatis but then the counter side of that is we've probably got too many universities anyway, offering ridiculous degrees. so let's cut back the sector , so let's cut back the sector, so no, on balance, i don't think they're good for the economy. no. in the rally back in 2011,

david cameron said he wants to get a grip on, net migration. >> well, he actually said the tens of thousands back in 2011. and look where we are now. is it good for the economy ? well, the good for the economy? well, the answer to that is that do we benefit in a in a net financial way? >> the answer is not not really. >> the answer is not not really. >> well, that's the and if we don't then it's not good for the economy. >> and i think the issue is as well we end up with the not the wrong kind of migrants but the wrong kind of migrants but the wrong kind of immigration. so it's low skill. they're not contributing heavily in tax. sorry to the economy. and then often they will bring lots of family members. so the net benefit is low. what we need to do, in my view, is we need to change ourselves into a sort of more high skill economy where we start to bring in migrants from jobs that we actually really need, high skilled. >> and don't forget, we've had an influx hundreds of thousands of ukrainians, hundreds of thousands of hong kongers. i think that's the collective now for people from hong kong. don't know. we've since brexit. also, we've managed to control immigration from lots of lots of indians are coming over to fill high paid managerial jobs where i am in the midlands. great

people, but we're in control of it. yeah well that's what we wanted with brexit, but unfortunately we sort of lost control of something that we could control. >> but you've heard you say that migrants have been heading to ireland after hearing about the government's rwanda plan, which was passed in parliament. rishi sunak says that that means his policy is working as a deterrent. but ireland isn't happy about the residents and have been protesting about their government's asylum policies. well, let's have a quick chat because joining me now is northern ireland reporter dougie beattie dougie, briefly tell me what's going on then, because reese is saying his plan is working. but it doesn't seem to be working for those in ireland . be working for those in ireland. >> no, definitely not. and we've covered this for the last couple of years. of course, that was going to happen. we're part of the common travel area. so you know, immigrants can either come into ireland, go through northern ireland and straight back into the uk or the other way round. and over the last couple of days, we've seen a beautiful village called newtown , mount kennedy in wicklow and middle class people. average price of houses. there are about

£300,000 have been set upon by the garda siochana. the police force of the republic of ireland, with pepper spray and riot shields because they were protesting about an immigrant centre coming into their area. and those people are still protesting now, but it has , protesting now, but it has, inspired simon harris because that that was a very bad mistake. and simon harris, the taoiseach , has now said today taoiseach, has now said today that he will be, trying to put through legislation so as they can send those that came from the uk back . and number two, he the uk back. and number two, he is calling for greater cooperation with the psni. and joining me now is herman kelly of the irish freedom party. herman, do tell me, is he right? and what he said , simon harris and what he said, simon harris is an absolute disaster. >> look , our problem in ireland >> look, our problem in ireland is, is there's no political to will send these people back. roughly a quarter of a million

people come in every year now. and he's done nothing. look, when the common travel area , when the common travel area, what do you call them? leo varadkar. made a huge mistake when they antagonised britain. the taoiseach before him, enda kenny, wanted bilateral negotiations to discuss what happenedin negotiations to discuss what happened in relationship with the border between ireland and britain. he unnecessarily antagonised britain, led to very bad relations, the worst they've been probably pre good friday agreement. but simon harris look 79% of the people in ireland currently believe that there's far too much immigration into ireland. and talking about ireland. and talking about ireland being made unsafe. well in 20 2212 people, 12 women were murdered, five of them were murdered, five of them were murdered by non—nationals. >> so there you go . i mean, >> so there you go. i mean, really, that is where it stands in ireland . and of course, the in ireland. and of course, the european elections are coming up here and we that will tell tale. >> thank you very much, dougie .

>> thank you very much, dougie. that's dougie peter there, speaking with regard. well listen, let's quickly find out what the great british voices think, because this show is nothing without their them and their views. let's welcome one of them on. this is their opportunity to tell us what they think about the topics we're discussing. john reid in kidderminsterjohn, is mass migration good or bad? what do you think? >> i think mass migration, legal migration, nana is a good thing , migration, nana is a good thing, but that means we can pick and choose who we let in, doesn't it? >> i think mass illegal immigration, the like of which we see coming across the channelis we see coming across the channel, is ridiculous. >> and i don't really understand why isn't easily stopped. >> i know i noticed yesterday that, a knife was taken to an inflatable on the beach and the boat therefore couldn't sail. >> and i don't see why we don't do that all the time. either us or the police or anybody else. why? why are the boats allowed to move? >> i mean, you don't move 50 people in a great big inflatable in a couple of minutes, do you? they must. >> they must come from somewhere

and they must all get their jackets on. so mass illegal immigration, i'd be 100% to stop him. but i think we've got room in our economy for people to fill the gaps of the jobs that the british and whatever. what don't want to do ? don't want to do? >> well, we started we need to get on with it. john reid, thank you very much. lovely to talk to you. what do you think at home? get in touch. gbnews.com forward slash your say coming up. we'll continue with the great british debate in the next hour. i'm asking do you trust sir keir starmer next worldview. i'll speak to paul duddridge and uri geller. don't go anywhere.

good afternoon. this is gb news on tv , online and on digital on tv, online and on digital radio. it's time now for worldview. i'm nana akua. let's travel over to america and speak to the host of the politics people podcast. paul duddridge . people podcast. paul duddridge. well, paul duddridge, what's going on with israel ? america

going on with israel? america then we've had all the pro—palestine protests across the weekend as well. what is happening in the states ? happening in the states? >> well, we've had a lot of the student sit in rallies . student sit in rallies. >> columbia, notably, i think that you're seeing coverage of that you're seeing coverage of that. that you're seeing coverage of that . these seems to be very that. these seems to be very well organised, very vocal, vociferous and sometimes unruly. >> protests happening across, various university and college campuses in the united states. that's for the israel pro—palestine, angle. so that is thatis pro—palestine, angle. so that is that is pretty volatile stuff at the moment. and it's having an impact, on poll ratings. but it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a curse upon both your houses, because where the democrats traditionally would be picking up a lot of the, under 30, voters in the polls because of the position. and it is it's fairly surprising me, i have to say that you think that with the track record of the biden administration , that they would administration, that they would be much more in tune with perhaps the more , extreme wings

perhaps the more, extreme wings of the palestine supporters, but they seem to be holding the line and supporting israel, and they're losing support as a result of that, as are the republicans, i have to say. so it's not really, aiding either, party, but it's kind of interesting to witness. >> so madison square gardens, trump is planning a rally, a major rally this trump, see, look. so he's in court. major rally this trump, see, look. so he's in court . we won't look. so he's in court. we won't have to go on about the case because that's covered everywhere else. but he's in court, and he's turning every single day into a, a press conference and building up support. so again, we're starting to see people go viral supporting trump. you know, lots of construction workers, etc. there was one expletive deleted guy went viral this week, supporting trump. and so he's making new york because this is where the trial is. he's making new york actually in play again. and he's, you know, he's aiming to win new york. and, as such, he's going to hold a rally , he he's going to hold a rally, he said in madison square garden. now he's floated this before, but now since the, the support

he's been receiving on his arrival at court every day and the people are lining the streets, no matter what anybody tells you, people are lining the streets to support him, he's basically taking the game to new york. okay, you're going to trap me for here 6 to 8 weeks. i'm going to campaign here for 6 to 8 weeks. and so madison square garden, south bronx, i think is another location for him as well. but these are traditionally places that he should not be. i think he got 12% of the vote. so it's really he's taken the game to them now . he's taken the game to them now. >> i'm interesting paul, thank you so much. paul duddridge, host of the politics people podcast . great to talk to you. podcast. great to talk to you. right. let's head over to israel now and speak to mister fire regala, troops could be put on the ground in israel, reportedly. uri, what are your thoughts ? thoughts? >> okay, gnaana, please allow me to continue the conversation you just had. look, nana never re goes by without something to do with israel or gaza or the jewish people. but today i want to talk to you about a virus. there is a sickness, which is spreading in america, and it

seems to mainly affect young people. sadly, nana there is no cure and i'm worried that this sickness is going to spread to the uk. but the good news is that the symptoms of this sickness are easily identifiable. let me tell you what the signs are. the virus incubates at expensive universities and is especially caught by ignorant young students. unfortunately this virus is highly contagious, but it's okay because the carriers like to stick together and live in tents on the campus grounds. now you will know if you have this virus. you know why? because you will like to think about rivers and seas though you will not know why, and you will like to shout and scream. here we just spoke about this , the we just spoke about this, the case. this is unbelievable because the most serious thing

is you will become a full blown racist, even though you pretended to be the exact opposite. look, nana, you know what i'm talking about, don't you? yes, these crazy students who have hijacked campuses across america to protest against israel now , let me tell against israel now, let me tell you, nobody has a problem with criticising israel. in fact, here in israel we criticise the government all the time. but these idiotic students are intimidating jewish students and making israeli students and israeli staff fear for their lives. these are exactly the same kind of ugly scenes we have seen on the streets of london every week since the 7th of october. and you know what, nana? i'm worried. i'm worried that the same virus that has taken root in america is going to spread to universities in the uk, to nana the uk is ripe for it. the last thing i want to

say, the uk is sitting back and letting it happen. the mayor of london is doing nothing. nada. the police are doing nothing . the police are doing nothing. zero nana what begins with words ends with violence. or worse, they need to uproot the protesters in america and stop the protests in london before it is too late. do you agree with me, uri geller? >> it's always a pleasure to talk to you. i know what you're saying. i think people can see what's going on, but it's really good to have your thoughts. that is the brilliant uri geller live from tel aviv. i'm nana akua this is gb news more still to come . come. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar sponsors of weather on . gb news. >> hello, here's your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. over the next few days we hold to on a

rather unsettled weather conditions across the uk, but we will also see a gradual rise in temperature. low pressure is on the scene at the moment and it's this weather front towards the northeast of the uk that's bringing some outbreaks of quite persistent rain, quite coupled with quite tightly packed isobars. so quite a blustery feel to the weather as well. and we do hold on to outbreaks of rain across the far north—east of scotland heading into the overnight period. elsewhere, there'll be some clear spells for a time, but the showers out towards the west and southwest certainly do gather into the early hours of monday, turning quite heavy and becoming more organised by the morning. on monday itself could see a touch of frost in 1 or 2 very sheltered spots. but on the whole it's a frost free night and into monday we'll see an east west split much as we did on sunday, but this time it's the east. seeing the best of the weather out towards the east and southeast of the uk. here we'll see some sunshine at times and mostly dry weather, whereas out towards the west quite a few showers from the word go. they become more widespread and quite heavy at times. here also affecting other northern areas as we head into the afternoon in the best of the sunshine. it will be warmer than on sunday, particularly towards the south—east. highs of 16 or 17 celsius nearer 12 to 14 degrees

towards the north, which is close to the seasonal average. as for tuesday, well again it's the east that will fare best with the best of the dry and bright weather at times was out towards the west. a good again, a good rash of showers, those showers merging to longer spells of rain at times. it does stay fairly unsettled during the week ahead with showers at times, but nofice ahead with showers at times, but notice those temperatures also rising into the high teens or low 20s. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

gb news. >> hello. good afternoon. it's 5:00. this is gb news on tv, onune 5:00. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua. and for the next houn nana akua. and for the next hour, me and my panel will be taking on some of the big topics hitting the headlines right now . hitting the headlines right now. so coming up, she's appeared in

ex on the beach signed by katie price and celebrity big brother. we'll talk highs, lows and lessons learnt. and what comes next on the world. on the outside of reality tv? who is she? she'll be here live in a couple of moments. time then, for the great british debate this hour i'm asking keir starmer , do you trust him? who starmer, do you trust him? who knows? loads of u—turns . will he knows? loads of u—turns. will he u—turn on his latest, the triple lock? but first, let's get your latest news with ray addison. >> good afternoon. it's me again. our top stories. this houn again. our top stories. this hour. shadow health secretary wes streeting says doctor dan poulter has not been offered a peerage to defect from the tory party to labour. mr streeting is defending doctor fulcher's decision, saying it shows that only sir keir starmer can be trusted with the nhs. doctor. poulter says he'll sit on the labour benches until the general election and then stand down comes just days before local .

comes just days before local. elections across england and wales, and the pm refusing once again this morning to rule out a general election in july . wes general election in july. wes streeting says doctor poulter defected to save the nhs. >> there have been millions of people , disaffected conservative people, disaffected conservative voters like dan poulter out there , who can see the chaos, there, who can see the chaos, and the conservative party see the failure to deliver and are looking at the alternative and i'd ask those people to trust the doctor who's seen the conservative party up close has seen the changed labour party of keir starmer up close and has decided that ultimately we need a labour government in this country to get our nhs back on its feet to turn the economy around and to make sure that we can look to the future with hope and optimism again. >> well, policing minister chris philp is busy defending the government's handling of the nhs. he's pointing to what he says are record levels of spending . spending. >> just in the last year alone, the nhs has grown . by 68,000

the nhs has grown. by 68,000 staff and there are today 7000 more doctors and 21,000 more nurses than there were a year ago. tens of thousands of people each year are fleeing the welsh run nhs . sorry, the labour run run nhs. sorry, the labour run nhs in wales to have treatment in england. the waiting lists the proportion of the public who are on either very long waiting lists or indeed the proportion of the public in wales on a waiting list at all, is higher , waiting list at all, is higher, materially higher than it is in england. so on any measure, the labour party are doing a terrible job. >> former immigration minister robert jenrick is calling for a cap on net migration, saying it's the only way to restore voters trust. mr jenrick says he wants a far more restrictive system, allowing less than 100,000 people a year. writing in the sunday telegraph, he said the government's recently passed rwanda bill will, quote, join the graveyard of policies that failed to tackle illegal migration last 30 years.

>> politicians of all stripes have promised controlled and reduced immigration only to deliver the opposite. and the pubuc deliver the opposite. and the public are rightly furious at what's happened. it's placed immense strain on housing, on pubuc immense strain on housing, on public services , on community public services, on community cohesion, and it hasn't improved the economy . what we're the economy. what we're proposing is that we return to the tens of thousands, but unlike previously, we have a cap. so parliament itself votes for a democratic lock so the pubuc for a democratic lock so the public can have a degree of confidence, which they don't have today, that when politicians say these things, they mean it well. >> meanwhile, labour says rishi sunak needs to wake up and realise that his migration plan is not working. that's after home office figures show that more than 7000 people have arrived illegally by small boats so far this year. labour's shadow immigration minister, stephen kinnock, says that his party will, quote, crush the smuggling gangs and make sure that those with no right to be in the uk are swiftly returned .

in the uk are swiftly returned. the irish premier says ireland won't provide a loophole for anyone else's migration challenges. that's after rishi sunak said migrants moving from the uk to ireland shows that his rwanda deterrent is working. the irish government claims the number of migrants crossing into ireland from northern ireland is now higher than 80. simon harris says plans will be put to cabinet to put in place a new returns policy . the alba party returns policy. the alba party msp , whose vote could be crucial msp, whose vote could be crucial to save scotland's first minister, says it's time to build relationships. ash regan hasn't confirmed how she'll vote in the motions of no confidence in the motions of no confidence in holyrood, but says the price of her support will be higher if humza yousaf delivers . humza yousaf delivers. meanwhile, yousaf is asking leaders of rival parties to find common ground after the collapse of the snp's power sharing deal with the greens . and finally, with the greens. and finally, the duke of sussex is returning

to the uk in just over a week's time to attend a ceremony which will be marking the 10th anniversary of his invictus games. it will be the first time that prince harry is back in the country since the king's cancer diagnosis in february. he'll be at the thanksgiving service at saint paul's cathedral on may the 8th. he's expected to provide a reading at that event . provide a reading at that event. well, if you want the latest stories , you'll need to sign up stories, you'll need to sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen or by going to gb news. com slash alerts. back now to . nana. alerts. back now to. nana. >> thank you. ray. it's just coming up to six minutes after 5:00 on nana akua. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. but you know what? i really miss the panel because i didn't really get a chance to talk about our great british debate in the last hour where i asked, do you believe that mass migration is good for the economy? so let's see what danny

, kelly and christine make of that. so christine hamilton, political commentator, and you're not a political commentator. somebody changed it all. you're not i'm a housewife. you're an author and broadcaster and also an author and journalist, broadcaster and journalist, broadcaster and journalist . journalist. >> yeah. so would you like to go on then ? can i address this on then? can i address this first? go on. wow, wow. is so is the question is it good for the economy or is mass migration just good? >> is it good? >> is it good? >> is it good? >> i don't think it's a good thing. unfettered economy. >> i think the question is okay. >> i think the question is okay. >> i think unfortunately we are seeing the ramifications of so many more millions of people since the disastrous decision of tony blair. you know, when he when poland joined the eu, what date was this? it should be etched in. everybody's indelibly etched in. everybody's indelibly etched in. everybody's indelibly etched in everybody's brain because it's affected this country so much. well it's got to be when they were in power. what's that called . what's his what's that called. what's his mate called? gordon brown. >> no, no , no. >> no, no, no. >>— >> no, no, no. >> his press officer. what was his. what was his mr campbell yeah. his. what was his mr campbell yeah . them pair of divs and pair yeah. them pair of divs and pair of what divs . that's

northwest. >> if he's not here to defend himself , i >> if he's not here to defend himself, i don't know what a div is. >> a div. is.- >> a div. a is.— >> a div. a div is is. >> a div. a div is someone who makes daft decisions. okay. >> fair enough. >> fair enough. >> okay. so. so germany all the other deliberately all the other eu countries . as i remember eu countries. as i remember germany set a cap. they said okay, great, poland's coming into the eu, but we're going to set a cap . now, tony blair and set a cap. now, tony blair and his mate decided that because they were massively pro—immigration, they thought that diversify in the united kingdom was going to be a great thing. they didn't set a cap. and i think there was like about 800,000 poles in the first year or something. and and areas all around the country, if you look at the areas that voted leave, for example, the area that voted leave the most was an area in, i'm sure it was near nottinghamshire, and they had by far the most amount of european immigrants. now you have to ask yourself why did they vote leave in such massive numbers? is it that just a hotbed for racism? or maybe it's just a realistic consequence of unfettered immigration and it just hasn't

worked for them? >> it's annoying that because people might complain about mass migration, it suddenly becomes conflated with racism . that's conflated with racism. that's not really the issue. the issue is that you have flooded an area with people, and therefore you have you have disseminated the resources which the people who actually live there can now no longer access as easily as they could. so you are going to create a civil unrest, christine? >> well, i mean, tony blair did it deliberately because he thought immigrants would be more likely to vote labour. so he opened the floodgates and they have never been closed. it does depend who they are. and you're quite right. if you're against immigration, you're regarded as racist, which is absolutely ridiculous. when the pa remember when the polls first started to come over and everybody thought they were marvellous , the polish they were marvellous, the polish plumber was your ideal. if you could get a polish plumber , could get a polish plumber, first of all, they would turn up on time. they would do the job brilliantly. they would undercut british people and everybody thought they were amazing and still apparently polish immigrants are 50% more likely to have a job in this country

than immigrants from. i won't name the countries because i shall be accused of being racist. no, you should name the countries well, somalia, bangladesh . the poles are far bangladesh. the poles are far more likely to assimilate . so more likely to assimilate. so the work ethic is greater, the work ethic. but you know, when i was growing up, we the population of this country was was 50 million and it hardly moved in school textbooks. it was 5050 exactly. now, any minute now, it's going to be 70 million. that is unbelievable. 20 million more in my lifetime. and it is unbelievable. and everything is stretched , whether everything is stretched, whether they're the roads, the railways, they're the roads, the railways, the hospitals, the everything is now having to be stretched further and further and further to accommodate all these people. and people worry about . and john and people worry about. and john reid was talking about it, about illegal immigration. that is so in our faces because we see these pictures day after day on these pictures day after day on the television screen of them arriving in these small boats. but the numbers arriving illegally is dwarfed by the numbers who are arriving legally and are being welcomed into this

country by successive governments. and as you say, david cameron said he would get it down to the tens of thousands. well, i mean, whoopee. >> but do you think that a lot of the politicians were deluded in, in their notion that they thought that if you brought in lots of people from other countries, they could do the lower paid jobs. but actually, what it turns out is that even though our population has increased, the numbers of those unemployed has remained pretty much on a similar level to many of the british are. >> and immigrants are too idle to have a job, and they now it's far too easy to remain on benefits . ever since covid, when benefits. ever since covid, when everybody decided that working, not working and getting paid was was rather a good idea. and that's continued for those that are genuinely not well. >> and of course there are fair enough. of course there are for it to double in such a short space. >> this is the land. this is the land of milk and honey. this is the, i think, great britain is the, i think, great britain is the european equivalent of america. it's where people want to go. look what we're known for. we're known for brilliant music. we're known for brilliant cinema. look at london's west end, look at the skyscrapers in various cities around, well,

london mostly. i mean, there isn't really a skyscraper, skyscrapers all over the country. my point is , the point country. my point is, the point is, is there's a reason why people are getting on inflatables to come across the engush inflatables to come across the english channel. there's a reason it's a great place to live. >> they get hotel and benefits. never mind the skyscrapers . and never mind the skyscrapers. and you're right. >> yeah, there is a reason why they choose to get on a dinghy. and it's because we're a great place. and you're right, they have this perception. i'm going to call it perception because it's true. they have a perception that they're going to get looked after and they come from these incredibly impoverished third world countries where they have to beg and borrow and haggle for a loaf of bread, and then all of a sudden they're in the land of milk and honey, and they get things thrown at them. >> well, yesterday, more fool us. well, yesterday i did a monologue on and it was actually i played a clip from newsnight on the bbc, and i can't remember who was chairing it, but she was interviewing a migrant who had not, who had stopped in greece. so he'd come from another country, stopped in greece , and country, stopped in greece, and she said, well, why didn't you stay in greece? and she went, well, i didn't want to. he said, i didn't want to be in a tent because he goes in, in greece

and migrants get tense. so he then wanted to come to the uk. so he got on the dinghy because he didn't want to live in a tent. and that's exactly the point that you're making, danny. they don't want to live in tents. we're offering too much, but like you said, christine, thatis but like you said, christine, that is only a small portion of it. and rac is actually legal migration that we have control of. and that is a mistake made by our governments. and that is truly what does madness, that if people on the other side of this argument, they always say that they are genuinely fleeing from war torn countries. >> i mean, lots of them. i'm sure they are, but also lots of them are coached in what to say when they're interviewed by border force or whatever it is, or the home office. they know what to say. what are some what do you think? get in touch. gb news. com as we look british troops could be put on the ground in gaza. reportedly the uk government is considering putting soldiers on the ground to help land humanitarian suppues to help land humanitarian supplies from temporary pier currently being used built by the us. well listen stay tuned. we've got loads still to come . we've got loads still to come. gb views @gbnews. com or tweet us @gbnews. but christine hamilton and danny kelly still joining me. i want to ask you

briefly, christine, what do you think british troops could potentially be on the ground in gaza? they'll be dishing out humanitarian aid, but we are still now involved in active conflict. we're on the ground, to be honest . to be honest. >> anything that can help those poor people in that part of the world who are suffering, it's unimaginable what some of them are suffering . and if british are suffering. and if british troops can help distribute the aid, etc, then fine . i don't aid, etc, then fine. i don't want them to be fighting, but as i understand it, it's perfectly clear they won't be. the americans won't even put their boots on the ground, which is why we've got the americans will take them to the water's edge. we then have to collect them and distribute it. as long as they stick to a humanitarian purpose, then i'm all in favour. well, they might. >> what happens, though, if you're being attacked by. well, you're being attacked by. well, you may have to use your soldier skills. i think it's a bad look. >> i think to have british troops on the ground, i really do. i think there are plenty of voluntary organisations. 100,000 people walk every saturday, march through london asking for palestine to begging. i mean, they can go and distribute the aid. that is a good that really test the that will test their

desire. very good point. >> really good point. some of those, those pro—palestine organisations who are organising these marches week on and week out, perhaps if they are sincere with their words. and we know a lot of some of them are, but many of them, you tend to hear a lot of anti—semitic chanting, then maybe they should go and help out in gaza, and maybe they should join some of those aid. >> and i'm sure some of them would. >> i'm sure some of them would donate. maybe there will be an almighty rush, i really don't. it's very easy to grab a banner and march through london on a saturday afternoon, but actually to go and do something that is really useful and will help . really useful and will help. >> i don't want to see squaddie with a gun. i don't want to see a squaddie with a pistol. >> i don't think they will have, as i understand they will not have, so they'll be in the they'll be sitting ducks in their military outfits. >> but listen, a lot of them, a lot of these protesters that you talk about christine, when some of them have been stopped, about what they did and they don't even know why they're here. no. somebody just handed me the sign. it's more like that. so to be fair, well, i've asked danny's mentioned these protests. >> can we have a halt? they have monopolised london every

saturday for the last. goodness knows how many weeks they have made their point. we've got the message. no more. we should stop them. >> that's not going to happen, christine. >> no, i know, i know that no point me hoping, expressing the hope. >> well, it's a stay tuned. it's just coming up to 16 minutes after 5:00. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua. tv, online and on digital radio. i'm nana akua . next it's time i'm nana akua. next it's time for the great british debate this hour. and i'm asking sir keir starmer promised to keep the triple lock. do you trust him?

gb news. good afternoon. it's fast approaching. 19 minutes after 5:00. this is gb news. we're live on tv, online and on digital radio. don't forget as well. download the gb news app. it is very, very good. you can leave it in screen and then just carry on doing stuff on your phone. it's excellent. it's totally free as well. i'm nana akua and it's time now for the great british debate this out and i'm asking, do you trust sir

keir starmer? the labour leader makes another promise despite you turning on other election pledges. if his party get into number 10, the leader of the opposition says that he'll keep the state pension triple lock. but can you trust him not to change his mind? after all, he's changed it several times. well, joining me to discuss mark littlewood, director of popular conservatives, harvey proctor, former conservative mp neil pansh former conservative mp neil parish , a conservative mp and parish, a conservative mp and farmer denis macshane former labour mp and minister for state of europe. i'm going to start with you, neil parish. do you trust keir starmer to not change his mind again? i mean, do you trust him? full stop, no. no. yes. >> i think his his intentions will be honourable to start with, in order not to frighten the horses . but i with, in order not to frighten the horses. but i think spending under labour will go up so much. there'll be so much pressure for the health service for, you know , weekend doctors, for education, all of these things . education, all of these things. >> and i think he will review the situation on the triple lock i >> -- >> and i suspect it would be very unlikely that that triple lock will be in place at the

next general election under laboun next general election under labour. so not this one that the forthcoming one. >> so i think we need to watch him very carefully on this one. >> he'll look at the books when he gets in and say, oh, well, of course, far worse than i realised under this wicked tory government, and we will need to look at the triple lock again, but it won't be done immediately . and of course, at the moment it's all about getting elected and not frightening the horses. so i think we do have to be a little bit sceptical about the promise from keir starmer on the triple lock, because they're always doing that, aren't they , always doing that, aren't they, dennis? i mean, keir starmer has done many different things . he done many different things. he has said. i mean the woman thing just still irritates me. dennis i've got to be honest. but he's gone back on so many things . gone back on so many things. literally the green energy 28 billion. it's not going to be 28 billion. it's not going to be 28 billion. now i don't know when it's going to happen, whether it actually well he's talked about the non—dom tax status as though that's going to pay for everything. and then he's talked also about the whole private school education. i mean, look, he's now talking about triple lock. he's literally trying to

gather whatever audiences he can. he keeps doing this. >> the only person who's saying the triple lock should go is the conservative party's most senior veteran social policy expert , veteran social policy expert, david willetts. lord david willetts to you and me, former minister, former adviser in number 10. and he said it should go the triple lock. i was there when the conservatives and liberal democrats, lib dem policies well don't forget brought in in 2010 it was accepted by labour, wasn't challenged in the 2015 manifesto. the 2017 manifesto, the 2019 manifesto and keir starmer has simply repeated it's not going to change. now. there are other plenty of other arguments you could have about when he's gone this way and that, but i think you heard it here first. gnaana probably in a conversation with you, i said, what starmer secure is doing is, is you've heard of defunding, you've heard of de—banking. he's de targeted labour. he's removing anything that could be a target for labour going into this election, batting very

effectively defensively. and i think that will be welcomed by every pensioner in the country. >> i think he's he's sitting back on his laurels as things luckily for him, seem to be collapsing the right way. i don't think he's doing anything and i think he's saying what you want to hear. that's what i think. but mark littlewood, director of popular conservatives, what do you think? >> well, i think you can trust keir starmer, probably on any individual spending pledge, but it depends how they all add up. and here's the truth of the m atter. >> matter. >> i mean, obviously the opinion polls suggest that labour will form the next government, but whoever forms the government, whether it's conservative, labour or some sort of coalition government, the overall fiscal position , the balance sheet of position, the balance sheet of the government is going to be in a pretty dire state. >> and that's in part because the chancellor, jeremy hunt, who's promised spending constraint, has backed most of that spending constraint into the next parliament. >> we've been running budget deficits now since 2001. >> that's to say we haven't had a balanced budget in nearly a

quarter of a century. and whoever comes in, i think is going to have to make some savings. you have to find some reductions in public expenditure because this cannot go on now. you can pick any particular area. you can say, well , we want area. you can say, well, we want to particularly protect pensioners or we want to particularly protect the education budget or the defence budget or the nhs , but you can't budget or the nhs, but you can't particularly protect all of those budgets . and with huge those budgets. and with huge budget deficits into tens of billions, still , budget deficits into tens of billions, still, and budget deficits into tens of billions, still , and with the billions, still, and with the highest tax burden since the 1940s, i want to hear not just from keir starmer, but from politicians of all stripes about which areas of government spending are going to fall because some of them are going to have to. that's not a matter of ideology. that's a matter of maths. because it just feels that to me, it feels like keir starmer will literally say anything to anything. i mean, dennis, he said so many things. he was struggling with the jewish vote at one point. and then there was a sort of dividing in his party. so he wanted the muslim vote as well. and these are just fractions of

voting. and he knows that old, old people will form a large part of the electorate coming into this election. >> yes, that's true, but as i say, it's been standard labour policy. i mean, you can't accuse abad of inventing something that's been boxed and all of us in the labour mps, when i was one, we accepted. even then it was a tory lib dem policy, and it was broadly welcome. i think what has changed is, of course it was. the offer was made when inflation was almost at zero and we've had, under the tories, the highest inflation in europe, it's come down, but it's still twice as high as france , germany twice as high as france, germany etc. we've had nothing to help poor pensioner households in britain under the conservatives, so this at least is one gesture of reassurance . i agree with of reassurance. i agree with mark, but also i agree with chris giles , the economic guru chris giles, the economic guru of the financial times, who wrote this week that actually there's a lot that's more benign in the economic climate globally and in britain than is recognised. i mean, the tories are all the right wingers will say since day one there's a

labour says one and one is two. no, the sums don't add up. one and one doesn't equal to it equals whatever we want it to be. i accept all of the challenges and problems. i heard an amazing report this week of, say, police forces, neighbouring police forces . one spends police forces. one spends £50,000 on their police cars. the other spends 100,001 spends £120 on a truncheon and the other police force goes down. i don't know, maybe b and q and gets one, gets one for £20. there's so much waste in the pubuc there's so much waste in the public sector now rachel is an obsessive number crunching. you know, she spends all her nights and days, she doesn't do any real, doesn't have it all. who are you talking about? dennis rachel reeves. oh, she is , since rachel reeves. oh, she is, since she was at new college, oxford. she is a chess master. she knows the moves . and she also knows the moves. and she also knows that if she gets all that wrong, labour will be out very, very fast. there >> paris neo paris is doing some funny that says , quite rightly

funny that says, quite rightly that she knows the moves. >> that's exactly what it is nana.the >> that's exactly what it is nana. the moves are to reassure everybody until the election is oven everybody until the election is over. and then you mark my words . they will be spending so much money they will have to claw back you and dennis. dennis is being very reassuring and very, very nice afternoon. but at the end of the day, at the end of the day, labour spends a lot of money and they will have to save a lot of money somewhere. and i think the triple lock i will maybe have to eat my words. but nana, i think by the next election it will not be in place after this election. so i think you'll find we i'd be looking forward to debate in the future with dennis on this one, because i think labour is spending plans are not properly funded. they want to spend money on everything, reassure everybody they're not going to tax them any more. they're going to give them just as many pensions. and at the end of the day, it doesn't all add up. nana, so i think it's been a really good debate this afternoon, and i really, i always it's always

nice to see dennis in particular because we were together in parliament. but i think he's wrong on this occasion, and he probably thinks i'm wrong on this occasion . this occasion. >> mark littlewood, what do you think? are either of them wrong ? think? are either of them wrong? >> well, i mean, i think that almost the problem here, which makes the modern political debate a bit strange , is that debate a bit strange, is that over the last 14 years of conservative government, we've seen a massive increase in tax and spending, a massive increase. i mean, if you come down as a martian just today and had looked back over the last 14 years, you probably would have assumed we'd had a labour government. for the last 14 years. we've gone hugely up in tax and spending really across the board, and that really means that there's not much basis upon which rachel reeves aukus armour could want to make it higher. i also think can practically make it higher. no government in my lifetime has been able to squeeze more than about 38% or so of national income out of the economy in tax, whatever tax mix you try, that's about the

maximum, and we're now at that maximum. and sooner or later that means that you need to budget within your means. so i fear whoever forms the next government is going to have quite a challenge. and promises made today may be very much under liveable in 6 or 12 months time. whether the next government is red or blue. well, what colour do you think the next government will be, mark? >> well, if you believe the opinion polls and you're a betting man, and i am, i guess the smart money is on labour. but politics has been so unpredictable over the past ten years. i wouldn't bet your house on it. >> i denis macshane do you think it's definitely a labour government that's coming in next? >> i've always been nervous of that. i've never liked the idea of it's in the bag, but i can must be canvassing for 4 or 5 times this week. there is just an overwhelming sense of let's have a change. the tories have messed it up. liz truss very close and helped by mark, messed it up. so many people have messed it up whatever position they start from. not neil because he wasn't there,

responsible for the last messes and they want a change. but i fully accept that. i don't think people are enthusiastic. believe is that keir starmer as harry potter with her with a magic baton that one that can make everything better. so the challenge is a huge one for laboun challenge is a huge one for labour. but my goodness, let's some leaders prepare to meet a challenge instead of running away. going on and on about rwanda and absolutely no, no no, hold on, hold on, no rwanda. >> my rwanda, rwanda might work. and as you've seen what's happening in ireland, it looks like the irish are unhappy with the outcome. but it is definitely making a difference. but so denis macshane very briefly, very briefly, just to say on rwanda for canvassing sessions this week, 3 or 4 previous 2 or 3 weeks, not a single voters mentioned rwanda, not one. >> you don't know that, dennis, i do i've talked to i talked to them. >> maybe not. >> maybe not. >> you know voters and what we

got in the west country. >> it depends where you go. it depends where you go. dennis. i mean, if you were talking about some lefty place in north london, then maybe. but head down to the coasts and places where they're dealing with the mass migration and i think you'll you'll hear a different thing when they're dealing with the small boats. all right. so quickly, yes or no, the denis macshane, can we trust sir keir starmer not to change his mind on this one? yes or no? yes. >>— on this one? yes or no? yes. >> no. we can trust. yes you can. we can trust him. >> sorry. you feel you can trust him, mark littlewood? yes. or no? can we trust him? >> no. because the next government is going to have to change their mind on their supposed generosity. whichever colour it is, whether it's this one or something else, i don't know. but therefore , you can't know. but therefore, you can't trust what you're hearing. trust them. and neil, neil yeah, i agree. i agree with mark that the funds are not there. the triple lock will have to be looked at again. and i suspect keir starmer will do precisely that. >> interesting stuff. thank you so much for your thoughts dennis, mark and also neil, lovely to talk to you . thank you lovely to talk to you. thank you very much. of course. so what do you think? do you trust him? you've heard what he's saying. keir starmer is telling you that

he will keep the triple lock hmm'hmm, but he's u—turned on so many things. what are your views? get in touch. you're with me. i'm nana akua. this is gb news on tv, online and on digital radio. coming up, we'll continue with the great british debate this hour. and i'm asking, do you trust sir keir starmer? you'll hear the thoughts of my panel, christine hamilton and danny kelly. but first let's get your latest news with ray. >> thanks, nana. it's 531. shadow health secretary wes streeting says doctor dan poulter has not been offered a peerage to defect from the tory party to labour. mr streeting is defending doctor poulters decision, saying it shows that only sir keir starmer can be trusted with the nhs. doctor. poulter says he will sit on the labour benches until the general election, and then stand down comes just days before local elections across england and wales, and the pm is currently refusing to rule out a general election in july. refusing to rule out a general

election in july . former election in july. former immigration minister robert jenrick is calling for a cap on net migration, saying it's the only way to restore voters trust. mrjenrick says he only way to restore voters trust. mr jenrick says he wants a far more restrictive system allowing less than 100,000 people a year, writing in the sunday telegraph, he said the government's recently passed rwanda bill will join the graveyard of policies that failed to tackle illegal migration well. meanwhile, labour says rishi sunak needs to wake up and realise that his migration plan isn't working . migration plan isn't working. that's after home office figures show that more than 7000 people have arrived illegally by small boats, so far this year. labour's shadow immigration minister, stephen kinnock, says that his party will crush the smuggling gangs and make sure that those with no right to be in the uk are swiftly returned . in the uk are swiftly returned. the alba party has been placed on an election footing as a the likelihood of a general election in scotland looks increasingly likely. their only msp, ash

regan, hasn't confirmed how she'll vote in upcoming motions of no confidence in first minister humza yousaf, but it's thought that her decision could be key. mr yousaf is asking leaders of rival parties to find common ground after the collapse of the snp's power sharing, with the deal with the greens . write the deal with the greens. write for the latest stories sign up to gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen, or go to gb news. com slash alerts. back now to . nana. back now to. nana. >> thank you ray. in a few minutes i'll have more on this hours. great british debate. do you trust the keir starmer? i'm nana

gb news. good afternoon. welcome on board. if you're just tuned in. where have you been? we've only got 21 minutes to go. this is gb news. i'm nana akua. welcome. so much still to come, but right now, it's time for the british great british debate this hour. and i'm asking, do you great british debate this hour. and i'm asking , do you trust great british debate this hour. and i'm asking, do you trust sir keir starmer? now the labour leader makes another promise despite u turning on other election pledges. if his party get into number 10, the leader of the opposition says that he will keep the state pension triple lock. but can you trust him? not to change his mind, seeing as he's u—turned on so many things , including that many things, including that green policy, and come up with

some almost ludicrous ideas? i think robbing peter to pay paul for private schools, to pay for other schools, and then to put vat on private schools, it's just astonishing. but let me see. let's see what my panel make of that. joining me, author and broadcaster christine hamilton and also journalist and broadcaster danny kelly. >> all right, danny kelly, i do trust him. >> i don't think he's going to lie. i think politicians can change their minds. but yeah , change their minds. but yeah, but some people will vote for him on the basis of what he said. >> yeah, that's the issue. >> yeah, that's the issue. >> the question is framed in a particular manner that suggests he potentially could be about to lie . well no changing. do you lie. well no changing. do you trust him? yeah. >> do you trust him? do do do do i do trust. >> i focused on the triple lock open question. do you trust danny? >> you're just making it complicated. what was he on about? >> i know he's trying to suggest trying to make himself look clever. open, open. simple question . question. >> it is. yes, i. >>— >> it is. yes, i. >> okay, well, the way i am interpreting it is almost as if the suggestion is, is that he lies or he's potentially going to lie, and i don't believe he

is. now, could he change his mind? okay. do i trust him not to change his mind? >> do you trust him not to change? no no i don't i wouldn't trust it as far as i can throw the lad. >> actually just said it up to. >> actually just said it up to. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> surely the question should be the question. do you think that keir starmer is being honest now? i do, when he says that would take out your objection. >> i do, but i set it up with the other things where he's u—turned. so he's got no excuse for this. >> i do, i trust the lad, i do, i don't think. look, but i'll tell you what he's got. he's going after the old tories isn't he. with the with the pension that is. he ain't soft. >> of course he's not. but that's i mean as a pensioner i am delighted that so far the two main parties have all promised to keep the triple lock so that i'm going to be all right, jack, but am i? >> because there is such a thing as called fiscal drag . which as called fiscal drag. which means that as your pension goes up and your income goes up, you get into a higher tax band and you have to pay. so they get it back in some other way. and it'll be very, very easy for him. i mean , pensions use

him. i mean, pensions use something like half of all government spending. i mean it is a monument. it cost us fortune. >> we do teasing you. we have . >> we do teasing you. we have. excuse me, we have paid in. i have worked exactly. now i'm with you, christine. >> i got my first job before i had even left university. and i had even left university. and i had holiday jobs before i even went. you know, listen, i have worked my whole life, and i have paid it. >> no, no, christine, let me be honest. i do think it's astonishing if people don't think pensioners should be getting a pension. i think they should. and i think he should keep the triple lock. my question is i don't i don't trust him because he's u—turned on so many things. >> it'll be so easy for him to come in. who was it who when the tories got in in 2010, they found this message saying, sorry mate, there's no money. that was the treasury, the labour, treasury, the treasury, whatever his name was, that will undoubtedly be the case this time. there is no money, so he can easily say, look, i'm awfully sorry, pensioners, and thank you for voting for me in droves and giving me such an enormous majority. but sorry, can't follow through. >> do you think he's dishonest, though, when he says it? that's my point. >> he would like to do it all governments want to. is he being

sincere especially or is he just? >> i think he's just being political. i think he's being political. i think he's being political. he's grabbing for votes. i mean, you saw how sort of non he was unable to say what a woman is because he didn't want to lose anyone's vote, anyone's vote. but unfortunately in doing that, he almost lost 50% of the population. so after two years literally of saying that he didn't know what one was or saying, then he eventually said 99% of women don't have penises, which meant 1 in 1000 do.then penises, which meant 1 in 1000 do. then he realised that wasn't a good sum, and then eventually he said, okay, yeah, obviously as if it was all sinner nana, you are sorry you i love you when you're on your hobby horse about keir starmer and not knowing what a woman is, well, he should come and talk to me because i can tell him all about that. but this show is nothing without you and your views. let's welcome some of our great british voices. their opportunity to be on the show and tell us what they think about the topics we're discussing. how many have i got? i've got four of you. i'm going to start with brian doogan in solihull. brian duggan, do you feel you can trust sir keir starmer considering the exorbitant amount of u—turns ? exorbitant amount of u—turns? >> well, i mean, the tories have they're not, they're on their

fourth prime minister in the past five years, nana. >> and they're talking about having a fifth before the general election. >> so are you are you saying to me that they are a paragon of political steadfastness and reliability? >> the show have you? i did a monologue on that, and we were laughing at them. not in a horrible way, but it's embarrassing. there's nothing left to do but do that. so no, i don't think that they're much better. i'm asking you specifically, though, about sir keir starmer. >> well, i do trust him in comparison to that absolute bully, their record. >> come on. and with danny absolutely spot on in terms of the way the question is framed, do i trust keir starmer? of course i do. well, he perhaps changed his mind over policies as events evolve. yes, he may do so. exactly. >> he's got your vote is better. >> he's got your vote is better. >> absolutely not. >> absolutely not. >> the events that will evolve is him getting your vote. then he might change his mind. right. let's go to alan cook. alan cook is there in london. alan. >> hiya, nana. i'm quite bizarrely , i was actually bizarrely, i was actually discussing this with richard tice this morning . and i'll tell

tice this morning. and i'll tell you what our conclusion was in a minute. but jenny really keir starmer, you know, he didn't earn his nickname, flip flop for no reason. so, yeah, i can't think he can be fully trusted. and his political puppet masters brown, blair and mandelson have history in this area because after their landslide victory in 97, brown said that he would not touch pensions. but he removed the tax credit on dividends, which basically unstabilized the whole of the pension sector. so yeah, i don't think he can be trusted at all. and richard nye the, what we came to the conclusion quite the obvious one is it doesn't really matter what the politicians say . unless you the politicians say. unless you grow the economy, you're not going to be able to keep the triple lock there. so the key to this is growing the economy. and can they be trusted not to bankrupt it? well i'd like to hear some of the plans they have for growing the economy, which we don't seem to be hearing much

of at all. >> dan. brian, you're there in hull. dan >> well, it's out of their hands, it's not really a question of , of trust in that question of, of trust in that respect because in my opinion, all politicians, as i say, mistrustful things they'll say anything to get into power, but it's out of their hands because the global economy is going through a transition. in the next 5 or 6 years to a whole new economy . there's the economy. there's the dollarisation of the us dollar , dollarisation of the us dollar, and as that happens, our economy will get caught up in that. so who knows what's going to happen with the economy . you can't make with the economy. you can't make promises like that and expect to get away with them , because get away with them, because it'll come back to bite him because he's saying, i mean, that's quite a great statement. >> you should i would suggest he doesn't mention that. but lee webb in bedfordshire, do you feel you can trust him? do you think he's not he's being genuine with this one. >> i don't i don't trust him on this, triple lock at all, because i just wonder where the money's going to come from to keep the triple lock, he's got

to grow the economy. i don't see any plans in labour growing the economy. i don't see the current government being able to grow the economy at all, unless we have something really radical to be able to do that, so , no, i be able to do that, so, no, i don't trust keir starmer. but then again, i don't trust the current lock either, well, listen, thank you so much. my great british voice is brian dooganin great british voice is brian doogan in solihull . dan. brian, doogan in solihull. dan. brian, where are you? dan in hull. in hull. nice to see you. i think that was once voted the most bonng that was once voted the most boring places in the uk. no yes. >> you couldn't go off p&o ferries quickly. >> a chance to respond to that outrageous slur on the outrageous slur on the outrageous city of hull. >> no, it's lovely, isn't it, dan? i'm sure it's lovely. i actually i've been to hull once . actually i've been to hull once. i'm teasing you and also leigh webb. well done. lovely lovely to talk to you all. really great to talk to you all. really great to have your voices. there's our great british voices. i'm only teasing you if you're there in hull. it's not that boring. right. next it's time for

supplement sunday, where the panel and i discuss some of

good afternoon. if you just tuned in. where have you been? it's near the end of the show. it's near the end of the show. it's fine though. it's all good because there's still loads more to come here on. gb news but it's to come here on. gb news but wsfime to come here on. gb news but it's time now for supplement sunday, where my panel and i discuss some of the news stories that caught their eye. you know, somebody will be really happy with that because i get a lot of people saying it's not my it's not me and my panel. it's my panel and i. so somebody has written. i get that a lot. no. yeah. when i do the top end of the show, there's sometimes people send me that. and one guy sent me that and then he spent my name wrong. so i said, well, actually, actually, i messaged him back and i said, well, it's actually nana akua as i'm the how does how does he get akua wrong? >> how does he spell a queer, a q kuya. >> kuya i but listen, i'm the resident pedant on the channel. >> the people who say that it's

not me and my panel. they are right. it shouldn't be. i don't care though. no, i know, i'm just saying that they are right. no, that's fine, you know. but i would never dream of correcting you. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> may i correct you? you know, sometimes you don't correct anybody. i can dream of correcting. >> right. so you won't be back. >> right. so you won't be back. >> it's the way younger people talk nowadays. >> oh, well, i'll take that compliment. well i am younger. i'm down with the kids, so my panel and i, or me and my panel discuss some of the other stories that caught their eye. who wants to go first after one of your contributors, danny boy from hull? >> someone objected to someone. i think it was you saying hull's boring. you won't believe in it. but there's a story here about 29 reasons hull was named one of the worst places to live. i told you. yeah, apparently, hull's a bit of a dump , you. yeah, apparently, hull's a bit of a dump, and that's you. yeah, apparently, hull's a bit of a dump , and that's not my bit of a dump, and that's not my words. this is the newspaper , words. this is the newspaper, winter's even worse up in hull, there's very few historic buildings. the people are all a bit miserable . and so, nana you bit miserable. and so, nana you retracted that? i don't think you needed to retract anything. >> i was being polite. but listen, i'm sure there's some great places in hull to visit. >> well, according to this, it's

a dump. >> well, yeah. okay i'm sure. listen, that's not fair. because, you know, you live in your own little place and you love it. and you. that's right. it's all about what's around you. it's about who you love, your own little dump. >> of course you do. >> of course you do. >> around you. and right now, i've got you to christine hamilton. >> i can't believe you're being so rude about i wasn't. >> i'm not a journalist. i'm just reading his words, okay. >> this is something called visitbritain, and this is apparently our flagship tourism agency . and they have told agency. and they have told workers that they cannot use words like blind spot or man hours. they can't say guru , they hours. they can't say guru, they have to say expert. i'm not quite sure why, but they can't. they can't say minorities, they have to say marginalised. what they can't say blacklist. they have to say deny list. they can't even say man up. well we know you can't say man. well i can say that. you have to say be brave . i mean, it is utterly brave. i mean, it is utterly ridiculous. you obviously you can't say man hours. ridiculous. you obviously you can't say man hours . you have to can't say man hours. you have to say person hours. you can't. and this is what annoys me . the word this is what annoys me. the word guysi this is what annoys me. the word guys i have always used and it's you might go into a romantic term. it's a generic term for

just, hey guys, you know, it just, hey guys, you know, it just means everybody can't say that anymore. you have to say everyone , man or team. i mean, everyone, man or team. i mean, it's a complete nonsense. >> i would say, guys, was definitely more talking about men than women, though. >> no it isn't, not nowadays . >> no it isn't, not nowadays. >> no it isn't, not nowadays. >> it'sjust >> no it isn't, not nowadays. >> it's just a little observation from the only guy. from the only guy on the panel. >> well, of course it is, because it's guys and dolls, isn't it? but imagine saying dolls to a group of women. hey doll. >> hey, doll. well, listen. yeah, that might not go down so well. what i said, and mine is on this. now, this i just found and they're in the daily mail. could you endure 40 jabs of injectable moisturiser at a cost of £850 to smooth out wrinkly tummies? so this is, this is something that a certain cosmetic surgeries around the uk are offering this jab and apparently it's got high hyaluronic acid . and that is the hyaluronic acid. and that is the body's like a natural thing that the body produces to smooth out all the wrinkles. so apparently oh my god, that might work on people's faces as well. listen, i'm not advocating it. i'm just saying that this is my supplement and i might get this done asap. >> hyaluronic it was wrinkly tummies. >> women, not you. >> women, not you.

>> yours is fooled out. if it's filled out, then it's if it's filled out, then it's if it's filled out, then it's if it's filled out rapid the rate of wrinkle on my tummy. but if you lose weight, then it'll go. yeah. >> can i just say how fabulous gnaana looks as well? a lady of a certain age. how youthful she looks and the reign of wrinkle on her face. >> is there where we're going. >> is there where we're going. >> there ain't a wrinkle on her face. and you, my beautiful friend. >> if i was going to get a look in. i'm many years older than her, and you look fabulous with it, too. thank you, darling, and so do you. while we're all saying how wonderful we all are. danny, you look wonderful. >> yeah. you do a wrinkle on her. >> not a wrinkle on your head, but perspire. >> it's so hot in the studio. >> it's so hot in the studio. >> it's so hot in the studio. >> it is? well, it's because nana likes it hot. i like it hot. she's a bit of hot stuff. >> well, thank you very much. look at these two. what do they want? >> what do they want? >> what do they want? >> well, listen on today's show, i've been asking, do you think that mass migration is good for the economy and according to one twitter poll, 95% of you said no. only 5% of you say yes. there you go. also asked was sir

keir starmer saying a labour government would keep the pension triple lock? do you trust him? 91% of you say no, they don't trust him at all. it's literally in the 90s today. thank you so much for your views and a huge thank you to my panel .thank and a huge thank you to my panel . thank you so much to the fabulous christine hamilton. christine, thank you so much for joining me. it's such a pleasure to see you. >> my, my, my weekly treat on a sunday afternoon and a huge thank you to danny kelly as well, a huge thank you. >> i'm no fabulous dad and as even >> i'm no fabulous dad and as ever, a massive thank you to you at massive . at massive. >> it's worse. >> it's worse. >> massive thanks to you, adam, for your company. neil oliver is up next. i'll see you next week. same time, same place. i'll leave you with the weather. enjoy . enjoy. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boiler is sponsors of weather on gb news.

>> hello. here's your latest weather update from the met office for gb news. over the next few days, we hold on to a rather unsettled weather conditions across the uk, but we will also see a gradual rise in temperature . low pressure is on temperature. low pressure is on the scene at the moment and it's this weather front towards the northeast of the uk that's bringing some outbreaks of quite persistent rain, quite coupled with quite tightly packed isobars. so quite a blustery feel to the weather as well. and we do hold on to outbreaks of rain across the far north—east of scotland heading into the overnight period. elsewhere, there'll be some clear spells for a time, but the showers out towards the west and southwest certainly do gather into the early hours of monday, turning quite heavy and becoming more organised by the morning. on monday itself could see a touch of frost in 1 or 2 very sheltered spots. but on the whole it's a frost free night and into monday we'll see an east west split much as we did on sunday, but this time it's the east. seeing the best of the weather out towards the east and southeast of the uk. here we'll see some sunshine at times and mostly dry weather, whereas out towards the west quite a few showers from the word go. they become more widespread and quite heavy at times. here also affecting other northern areas

as we head into the afternoon in the best of the sunshine. it will be warmer than on sunday, particularly towards the southeast. highs of 16 or 17 celsius nearer 12 to 14 degrees towards the north, which is close to the seasonal average . close to the seasonal average. as for tuesday, well again it's the east that will fare best with the best of the dry and bright weather at times was out towards the west. a good again, a good rash of showers, those showers merging to longer spells of rain at times. it does stay fairly unsettled during the week ahead with showers at times, but nofice ahead with showers at times, but notice those temperatures also rising into the high teens or low 20s. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on

good evening. good evening, fellow travellers . blithe fellow travellers. blithe spirits. it's great to have you. welcome. welcome to the neil oliver show on gb news tv, onune oliver show on gb news tv, online and on radio. this week i will be taking an in—depth look at the ongoing war in ukraine. i'll be joined by retired us army colonel douglas mcgregor for his insights. i'll be asking him, perhaps more than anything else, when will it all end ? i'll else, when will it all end? i'll also be joined by molly kingsley from us for them to talk about the world health organisation , the world health organisation, specifically, the apparent climbdown on planned changes to their pandemic preparedness treaty, plus plenty of discussion with my panellist for this evening, broadcaster and journalist ingrid tarrant. but first, the all important update on the latest news headlines