gb news. >> hi there. very good evening to you. i'm aaron armstrong in the gb newsroom. angela taylor is expected to be interviewed under caution as part of a council tax investigation . the council tax investigation. the deputy labour leader is understood to have been contacted by manchester police concerning the sale of her house in 2015, amid claims she may not have paid the right amount of tax and that she may have falsely made a declaration about her primary residence on the

electoral register. reports in a number of newspapers say she'll beianed number of newspapers say she'll be invited to attend a police station voluntarily, and will be interviewed under caution rather than being arrested. miss rayner has said she's confident the rules have been followed at all times . the uk rules have been followed at all times. the uk said it would support palestine gaining full member status in the united nafions member status in the united nations when the time is right. the comments by the deputy foreign secretary, andrew mitchell, come as israel has launched fresh attacks on northern gaza in an effort to prevent hamas from regrouping, three months after the idf claimed it had taken control of the area. meanwhile, tens of thousands of palestinians continue to flee rafah in the south as israel prepares to launch a major offensive earlier , hamas posted a video claiming british—israeli hostage nadav popplewell has died after being injured in an airstrike last month. the government says it's urgently seeking more information , while andrew information, while andrew mitchell told gb news it's not unfeasible to suggest a palestinian vote in the un could

happen before the conflict is resolved. >> it is right to recognise palestine as a state at the united nations at the right time, and that doesn't have to be at the end of the process for peace, it can be as part of those negotiations , us and those negotiations, us and britain will support palestine becoming a state at the un when we feel the time is right. that isn't now, but it may, as i say, be before the end of the peace process . pi'ocess. >> process. >> a third man has been arrested on suspicion of murder following a house fire in wolverhampton. emergency services were called to a property in the dunstall hill area at 2 am. yesterday, where two women, both in their 20s, were pronounced dead at the scene. four people were also injured. police have been granted extra time to question two men who were arrested yesterday, aged 19 and 22. it's believed they were known to the women. towie de facto natalie elphicke has denied lobbying the

justice secretary over her then husband's sex offences trial. she's accused of asking sir robert buckland to move charlie elphick's case to a lower profile court, in an apparent attempt to avoid publicity. speaking to the sunday times, sir robert buckland says she was told the request was completely inappropriate. her spokesperson has refuted the accusation , has refuted the accusation, describing it as nonsense. meself ended the marriage when her husband was convicted of sexually assaulting two women and jailed for two years , and and jailed for two years, and two skydivers have become the first to navigate their way through tower bridge wearing wing suits . well, the pair, from wing suits. well, the pair, from austria jumped from a helicopter and flew across the river thames. they reached a top speed of 152 miles an hour, going through the bridge towers successfully. it followed extensive training in oxfordshire, which involved the use of cranes to simulate the structure. very impressive . i'll

structure. very impressive. i'll be back with more in about an hours be back with more in about an hour's time . or you can get more hour's time. or you can get more right now by signing up to the gb news alerts by scanning the qr code on your screen. now it isfime qr code on your screen. now it is time for free speech nation. >> anglo—saxons are cancelled at the garrick club, starts to admit women and eurovision gets political. this is free speech. nafion political. this is free speech. nation . welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nafion nation. welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. this is the show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. and coming up on the show tonight, we'll have filmmaker jennifer lale is going filmmakerjennifer lale is going to be joining us from the us ahead of the screening of her new documentary examining the rise of gender dysphoria. satirist miriam elia will be here to discuss her recent art installation in new york, which was famously cancelled for its isis content when it was created eight years ago. and of course, i've got a fantastic panel here

to answer questions from this rather lovely studio audience are my guests tonight are cressida wetton and paul cox. >> how are you, paul.7 i'm good. thanks. i took a walk along, little venice this morning. oh. did you.7 i little venice this morning. oh. did you? i saw someone fall in taking a selfie. which set? which set me up for the whole day. >> how could that even happen? >> how could that even happen? >> well, they . it was >> well, they. it was a beautiful day. so you can't not photograph. >> did you rescue them? >> did you rescue them? >> no. there was more sort of a laughing for me than a helping. yeah. of course, you know, they made their own bed, didn't they? >> they did, but i never came back out, so i thought, well, they're okay. >> they're enjoying it. anything equally dramatic from, you know. >> but i have lost at least two phones to the canal. god. have you? yes i have, it's dangerous out there. >> yeah, it really is. okay, well, look, let's get into our audience now. we've got a question from beth. beth, hello. hello yeah, i wanted to ask, did the, protest ruin eurovision for you, eurovision, yeah , the. we you, eurovision, yeah, the. we all saw what happened here. so it was the israel entry, obviously at eurovision. eden golan. i believe her name is

young woman. took the stage in malmo and she was there was a mix, wasn't there, of boos and there were cheers. but is it also the case you had to have 100 police officers escorting her to the venue? >> yeah. i mean, her crime being that she happened to be born in a on a piece of land. yeah, in the middle east, and she had no control over whatsoever. and she was just trying to do her job. was just trying to do herjob. i mean, it's a metaphor for where we find ourselves now, isn't it? and the reaction to it has been incredible. i like the fact that, some, some big commentators, particularly from the left, were aghast that uk in particular gave 12 points to israel. >> but that was the public vote. >> but that was the public vote. >> that was the public vote. but it's almost like they have no understanding. they think everything they say is being listened to and heard and adhered. >> it was kind of interesting, though, wasn't it, chris? because we saw the irish entry, i think it's someone called. was it bambie thug? >> well, yes. >> well, yes. >> bambi bambie thug oh, i apologise for getting that wrong. but also i think thug identifies as they them. right.

i think i believe they do and basically she's got devil horns and too much makeup. she looks like she who loves halloween. >> yeah, there's a lot going on there. it's a lot of look. >> but she was gutted that israel beat ireland. >> yes. she he she was crying about it. they were. and yes, there was a lot of tears, and then this kind of bizarre sort of speech saying the queers are coming , of speech saying the queers are coming, which i didn't quite know what to make of that. that's quite homophobic, isn't it? >> well, it doesn't it. >> well, it doesn't it. >> i mean, i thought it was a song contest. yeah, yeah, yeah, quite a look. i might start modelling that myself. >> it's a strange one, isn't it? because we always know that eurovision has a kind of political element. i mean, there was always that for many, many years it was the case that cyprus and greece would always give each other 12 points, you know, but that was kind of silly and funny. and this feels intimidating and scary, actually. >> yeah. it's like this crossover. it's like a fancy dress party that's gone wrong. it's like everyone's turned up dressed as nazis. there's a bit of fun and then actually become nazis. i think during the show.

>> that's something that a lot of people don't understand, because they associate eurovision with sort of gay culture kitsch. tawdriness like camp. people love it. but the problem is that the sort of gay culture has kind of been hijacked by gender ideologues who are basically authoritarians and want to shut everyone down. using censorial means. and want to shut everyone down. using censorial means . yeah. so using censorial means. yeah. so it's not it's not fun anymore. no, it's scary. >> they would take any minority, to be fair. it's just very unfortunate that people of a certain skin colour or religion or cultural background have become part of their their minority victim, oppressor versus victim culture. the same with homosexuality and even homosexuality anymore is not enough of a minority. so you've got to invent versions. you know, gays that like sex with beef burgers or whatever, this, this, this thug individual was cheering about being a queer. >> and then her boyfriend whooped. i thought, no, you're just you're a straight woman, aren't you? yeah, basically. i mean, that's what's happened to a lot of the lgbt community is it's now just basically mostly straight people with a kink . straight people with a kink. >> that's what it looks like to me. i mean, what do i know? i'm a straight person without a

kink. i'm just just, you know. well, i'm into men. that's a bit weird, isn't it? >> it's a bit weird. >> it's a bit weird. >> yeah, i, i think you're exactly right. when people are shocked at the 12 points from the public or whatever it is, how do you express it? the popularity from the public, though it's brexit all over again, isn't it? what? people don't agree with us. yeah, very, very strange. >> okay, well, look, let's get another question now from victoria. hi hi. yeah, hi, is esther mcvey right to ban jobs dedicated to equality, diversity and inclusion . and inclusion. >> yeah. so now she's the common sense minister , which i always sense minister, which i always found like an odd thing that you would need. i would like to think that all ministers had some common sense anyway. esther mcvey says she's getting rid because she's worried about the civil service. and look, we've all been quite worried about the civil service, haven't we, because it has been ideologically captured. there's been a lot of edi, equity, diversity, inclusion going on, which of course means the opposite of what it sounds like, because equity is the opposite of equality. diversity basically means, everyone thinks the same way, and inclusion means excluding anyone who doesn't think that way. so it really is a kind of very narrow minded, point of view. so she's right,

isn't she? that i mean, weren't there there was an article in there there was an article in the telegraph. sorry, just quickly that an article in the telegraph a while ago of a civil service whistleblower who was saying that effectively, whenever the home office told them to do something, when it was to do with migration, if the staff didn't approve, they just wouldn't do it. now, the civil service has to be impartial for it to work. it's the machinery of government. and so she's right, isn't she? >> well, yes, i think she is. absolutely. i mean, i really, really detest di, and this isn't, it's not even that she's saying banning di hires, is it. it's she's banning people whose job is to create di culture, i suppose.i job is to create di culture, i suppose. i think it's a brilliant move. >> i mean, isn't it a big waste of money? i suppose we should have some balance. are you going to now defend di? >> i'm not, believe it or not, i would lose my moniker as the people's gammon if i started standing up here saying that i was, i don't know, bisexual gammon, but , was, i don't know, bisexual gammon, but, i they're getting rid of a specific role in this instance, which is quite interesting, which is that role of dni, manager, overseer,

overlord, and being quite old fashioned, i'm a bit of a fan of meritocracy. i'm also a business owner. i know it's ridiculous. in the dark ages, we should, you know, we should, we should, we should. everybody should get their role based on merit. you know, i don't think that maybe all roles should be because there could be people in this room right now that are better than this, than i am. and i want to keep this job. i'm looking around. there are some that do look better than i am, and i don't want any of them to try. but what we are seeing is like an inefficiency created as a result of these roles. because if i run a small business and in order for a small business to be profitable, any business to be profitable, any business to be profitable, it needs to be efficient. if you so you build systems and if you add to that system, you keep adding to that system, you keep adding to that system that says, oh yeah, that all works fine, but it's the wrong colour, or it's the wrong sexuality or whatever. it needs to represent a, b, c, and d, then it makes it inefficient so you're not taking it into account anything, let alone meritocracy. >> yeah. i mean, i would have thought that we've already kind of tackled this idea. you know, employers are not allowed to be homophobic, racist, sexist, etc.

so what is the need for these initiatives exactly? >> well, personally, i don't like them. it drives me mad. i think it just undermines any, any what if somebody is perceived to be a dei hire that takes away from their achievements? yeah, yeah. and typically these organisations or organisations that are really keen on this stuff will tell you very loudly at the organisational level that this is what they do. they advertise their prejudices and then they expect you to believe that each individual person is there on merit and it can't be both of those things. >> no, it's very it's very interesting. anyway i'm sure we'll come back to that in later episodes. but let's get another question now from chris. chris. hello. hi, chris. hello. hi, does dame judi dench need to join another club? >> well, i don't know how many clubs she's in, but i know that she's probably joining the garrick and the garrick club. there's been a big thing recently in the news about the garrick club, which was all male, and now probably judi dench is going to be the first member. well, i'd love to be in a club with judi dench, but do you think it is bad for an all male club to start bringing in women? >> i mean, not there's a historical element to this club.

193 years of men only, and 193 years ago, men were best. so they they they created rooms. just the men could be in. and since then, women have caught up a little bit. and it's fairly equal now. i'm joking. i am completely joking. >> i don't need to explain that. >> i don't need to explain that. >> we might do. i should point out a camera, actually. but the idea , wouldn't it be quite funny idea, wouldn't it be quite funny because they've accepted now that they should introduce women into the club and, you know, that's their prerogative. and no real major view on that either way. wouldn't it be quite funny now if they just had a dame judi dench? no, you don't quite fit our criteria. >> wow. i think they would. it would take some bottle, it would turn away because otherwise what doesit turn away because otherwise what does it take to get in there? >> that's the point. >> that's the point. >> well, i mean, this is the thing. i mean, i'm not a member of any of these clubs. i don't really know what the deal is, but i would have thought, look, if i was in a, if there was a club where it was women only, i'd just think to myself, that might not be for me. i'd probably go and join another club. >> well, you know, i do feel like that. i think we've heard plenty about women's spaces in

the last few years, and fair enough. and let there be some male spaces. but having said that, it's not a male space like a model train society, is it? i don't think my being female is what's keeping me out of the garrick club first. >> i think it's money, isn't it? >> i think it's money, isn't it? >> a lot of other stuff. >> a lot of other stuff. >> yeah, i think money might be part of it. >> so it's not really the average woman's problem. >> isn't there a case, though, to be made that many years ago, these were the sort of places where major political decisions happened. it was sort of the place where the people in the corridors of power would gather, and therefore to exclude women at that time was to perpetuate actual inequality. >> that is true, isn't it? but i kind of want to do a jenny watson, who's the woman that set up her own new lesbian version of pride, because she doesn't like the way the original pride is going, and she's got to made her own club and she hasn't tried to tear down what's already there. and i'm quite inspired by that. and i think, can't we go and have our own women's garrick club? well, that's kind of interesting, isn't it? >> why not? why don't. >> why not? why don't. >> it's the women's institute. i think, and i've been trying to get in there for years. the cakes are superb. >> i think you don't need as much money to get into the women's institute. >> no, they won't take any from me at the moment. but i will keep trying. >> i mean, isn't there a to case be made, though, that, you know,

if you're not happy with the rules of a club, just make your own club. well of course. >> yeah. look, i mean, the garrick club was the garrick club, and it's like anything, isn't it? it's like, where does it end? that's the point. you know, i haven't got too much skin in the game. they're never going to invite me to the garrick club. but if it's, you know, if it's a football club and someone turns up with a basketball and says, no, i want to play basketball, you say, what do you say? do you say, yeah, okay, we won't play football anymore. >> i mean, to be honest, this story doesn't bother me much either way. >> i thought douglas murray making a very funny comment. he said, well, okay, once they've sorted the garrick club out, they've got to go up and down they've got to go up and down the mosques in the country and make sure that every building is allowing males and females into allowing males and females into all spaces. and i think good all the spaces. and i think good luck with that. >> would be interesting. >> that would be interesting. i think, i think when all the mosques have to have gender neutral toilets, i think that will very, very well. one will work very, very well. one might a few complaints might get a few complaints there, but anyway, let's move on to carlos. to a question from carlos. where's where oh where's carlos? where is he? oh no. this is email no. sorry. this is an email question . okay, there we go. question. okay, there we go. that's why there was no carlos in the audience. this is what he says. do you know any plonkers? goodness me . and would you like goodness me. and would you like to be to call anyone a pillock? it almost sounds like an abusive troll message. it's not actually , this is. there is a story behind this, and this is this

survey . you've read about this, survey. you've read about this, haven't you? yeah, i have about phrases like plonker and pillock and prat are kind of on the way out because young people have never heard of them. so they're talking about gen z or z. yeah. which are those performed born between 97 and 2012. they haven't heard these words . haven't heard these words. apparently only a quarter of them have heard plonker. >> well, i find that very hard to believe. do you? well, aren't we sort of force fed fools and horses every christmas in this country? i don't think young. i suppose they're all on their tablets now aren't they. they don't. yeah. >> they're not, they're not watching that kind of thing. but i don't think this is a i mean i'm not surprised. like >> no, this is about words like words evolve. and i mean for me it's huge, all pillar compliant. i love a pillock and i love a plonker . i i love a pillock and i love a plonker. i mean, i if i don't use at least one plonker a day, i don't feel happy . i don't feel happy. >> you see, those words are quite useful for us because this is a pre—watershed show. so, you know, you can use those words because they're not offensive to anyone, because no one knows what they mean. >> i called wes streeting a wally on headliners last night. perfectly safe to do. a lot less incendiary than the words he uses. >> uses. >> i think we've got a clip of a

the use of the word plonker. can we have a look at this, you stupid little plonker rodney. >> here i am, on the verge of losing the biggest deal of my life and this plonker here wants to give me a lecture about poxy butterfly . butterfly. >> you've got a rhinoceros, right? and one day ain't there. you tend to know it's missing. >> don't be a plonker all your life, rodney . life, rodney. >> i mean it really works in that context doesn't it. it's just right for that. but you know, i remember once living with an 85 year old woman, it's a long story. but she used to use words that i had no idea what it was. i had to sort of learn them. like she used to say that she was tight when she'd had a lot to drink. it means drunk. >> that's not what that means to me. >> no. it's cheap. >> no. it's cheap. >> it means cheap. exactly. but back in the day, it meant drunk. so you just. i think it's just each generation has its own slang, so it's not really much of a story, is it? >> i hear on buses from youngsters. i don't know what they mean. >> no. exactly. so bam bam , is >> no. exactly. so bam bam, is that you trying to be ghetto? trying? yeah. it doesn't work. okay. anyway next up on free speech nation, an mp sparked a row in the commons when he dropped the t from the lgbt

acronym . so i'm going to be acronym. so i'm going to be talking to the director of the gay men's network, dennis kavanagh, about that. you're watching free speech nation on gb news. don't go anywhere

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me . andrew doyle. so nation with me. andrew doyle. so a row erupted in the house of commons recently over an mps decision to remove the t from the lgbt. the alba party's westminster leader, neale hanvey, had been praising conservative alicia kearns for making a really important point about members of the community feeling safe. but then he dropped the t from the initialism so let's have a listen to the reaction from alicia kearns that followed . alicia kearns that followed. >> he's absolutely right. but there was one one digit messaging from his lgb, lgbt. we do not divide the lgbt community in this place. you can say that you have concerns about what we're doing, but by removing the t you are suggesting that

transgender people do not exist. you are suggesting they are lesser than other lgbt people. and i will not stand for that because it was trans people who stood with people at stonewall. it was trans people who fought alongside for lgbt rights. so when you say lgbt, you suggest when you say lgbt, you suggest when you say lgbt, you suggest when you remove the t, you suggest that they are lesser . suggest that they are lesser. and i will happily discuss with you the intricacies of legislation. but when you choose to eradicate them , that is to eradicate them, that is wrong. now unfortunately, despite multiple attempts for alicia kearns to appear or provide a statement, we've been unable to get her on. >> but the invitation is open. but anyway, to discuss this, i'm joined by the lawyer and director of the gay men's network, dennis kavanagh. welcome to the show, dennis. let's start with alicia kearns speech there. what did you make of it, it was absurd . it was of it, it was absurd. it was offensive. it was unwarranted. it was on parliamentary behaviour. she should have apologised for it and just for the record, is absolutely clear what neale hanvey mp was saying was simply that the conversion

legislation can unintentionally sometimes do damage both to lgb and to trans people separately. that's all he was saying. so this reaction from a heterosexual woman bellowing at him across the chamber about there's no lgbt without the t was complete unwarranted. it's also wholly ignorant of gay history for her to stand up in the commons and say they were there in stonewall . no they there in stonewall. no they weren't. if she's referring to the stonewall riots and as we pointed out in a press statement on the matter, those riots are in america anyway, and they post—date the decriminalisation of homosexuality in this country by some years. really, parliament has to do a lot better than people just repeating stuff they read on twitter, such as no lgb without the t. >> well, as i say, i did invite alicia kearns onto the show. i do hope that she'll come on and face some questions about this. it looks like at the moment from the wall of silence she's reluctant to do so. but it's really important, isn't it? because she's a conservative mp, the official conservative policy is to be pro what they call trans, a ban on trans conversion

therapy. can you explain why that's a problem? >> well , what's that's a problem? >> well, what's happening at the moment is this alicia kearns is proposing an amendment to the criminal justice bill. it's called nc 90, and it's a cobbled together frankenstein's monster piece of legislation that keeps changing and changing. we're now on version four, and we at gay men's network have just produced a briefing on it. it is a dangerous and homophobic piece of legislation because what it says is, if you quote, change, negate or replace doesn't bother to define those terms , any to define those terms, any transgender identity, then you are guilty of a serious criminal offence. now that would include, as i say, sometimes people with good intentions make errors . good intentions make errors. here you imagine a parent with a highly autistic girl say she's got an eating disorder, say she's suffering from depression , she's suffering from depression, say one day she comes downstairs and says, mum, dad, i'm really a boy. i want to wear a breast binder now and say her mother says, i don't want you wearing a breast binder. that could hurt you. well bad luck mother. you've just changed a gender identity or a trans gender

identity or a trans gender identity under the definition of this badly written piece of legislation. and that's for this reason. the definition of transgender identity in this says if you propose to do something, you have the identity. so the child propose going to be a boy by wearing the binder. they have that identity. so this, this appalling amendment has the risk of criminalising parents. and worse yet, it has a has the capacity to drive a coach and horses through hillary. cassie's changes to gender medicine. >> now hilary cass, in her recent review , which of course recent review, which of course has been groundbreaking and very, very important, specifically mentioned this misunderstanding about conversion therapy. do you want to tell us a bit about that? >> yeah. well hilary cass said, quite rightly, looking at what these politicians are doing and no doubt worried about the amateur hour amendments that are being produced by low information mps , said. look, information mps, said. look, exploratory therapy with a child who has cross—sex ideation and

you've got to remember these kids are in a state of high distress. they're not just wandering into the tavistock for a laugh. these are very, very vulnerable children , she said. vulnerable children, she said. doctors trying to help children like that , it's harmful to call like that, it's harmful to call what they are doing conversion therapy . and alicia's amendment therapy. and alicia's amendment does exactly this . does exactly this. >> yeah, well, a lot of doctors have expressed concern and say paediatric doctors in particular, who are specialised in gender care because they're saying that if they explore any other possible avenues, why this child might think they're in the wrong body, maybe they're suffering from internalised homophobia , or maybe they're homophobia, or maybe they're autistic, maybe they've been abused, etc. that even to broach that would risk the doctors being criminalised. or at least thatis being criminalised. or at least that is the perception from certain members of the of the medical practice, job. >> well that's absolutely right. and look, the legislation is tipped one way, right, because you only get prosecuted if you change, replace or negate the identity. yes. if you just affirm it, if you just go along with it, you can't be prosecuted. so if you want an

easy life as a doctor or heaven forbid, as a parent, you do nothing. you accept the self—diagnosis of the child. you do what the child wants. that could be disastrous. hilary cass spoke to the scottish parliament this week. she said she spoke or she spoke about a case about a young man who was given puberty blockers very early. he's now having cross—sex full time as a woman, as a trans woman. he said to her, look, i was gay. i just realised now i was gay and i can't go backwards . i can't have can't go backwards. i can't have my life back. and that is how serious this is. my life back. and that is how serious this is . that is a young serious this is. that is a young gay man who has had his life growing up as a gay man, taken from him by idiots who are pushing an ideological approach to legislation and an ideological approach to medicine. and this problem would be made even worse if something like this absurd kerns amendment passed because the doctors would be forced to give him puberty blockers, forced to give him cross—sex hormones, and if they didn't , they would be

prosecuted. >> so where is this coming from? i mean, the language that you mentioned there, i don't recognise from any other legislation. has this just been invented by kearns? >> well, it seems to be a total frankenstein's monster. we had a private member's bill by lloyd russell—moyle, and this bears a close resemblance to it. there has then been four different haphazard , crazy changes to this haphazard, crazy changes to this amendment. the first one didn't even have a definition of transgender identity . the second transgender identity. the second one allowed for a post office style private prosecution . this style private prosecution. this final one, you're not going to believe this explicitly for the first time, says you can be prosecuted for private prayer . prosecuted for private prayer. i'm not making that up. it specifically contemplates a private prayer. if you if you do it, if you pray with the intention of changing someone's sexual orientation or transgender identity, you can commit a criminal offence. that can't be real. i'm afraid that it is real. it's in black and white on the face of the statute. it is very difficult at the moment for any of us to take this seriously. as you know, we at gay men's network have published a briefing on this at the moment, and we are struggling to take that

seriously. you know what? in fairness to alicia , it has to be fairness to alicia, it has to be an amateurish mistake by her. but if this goes into legislation, she will criminalise private prayer. >> i don't understand it. can it be the case that she hasn't read the cass review? >> well, you do wonder sometimes, don't you? because anyone reading the cass review knows that something has gone seriously wrong in paediatric medicine. so the idea that in the middle of something that's in a state of flux, that desperately needs reform, that's been shown to be hugely harmful, you stick the, you know, the size nine boot of a criminal statute , variously putting statute, variously putting doctors and, as we know, wider than that counsellors, therapists, nurses, you name it, under threat of prosecution. it does rather seem that if she hasn't read the cass review, this is drafted in complete ignorance of what hilary cass says. and this can't happen. this is the next generation of gay people , and we in the gay gay people, and we in the gay rights movement are not going to have them suffering regret. we're not going to have them treated like this. we're not going to have politicians, as we

saw in that clip with neale hanvey talking over and for gay men and for lesbians, when we say , look, we've got reasonable say, look, we've got reasonable concerns about you trying to regulate paediatric medicine. >> dennis kavanagh, there's a lot to digest there. i'm sure we'll have you back on because this isn't going anywhere. dennis kavanagh, thanks very much. thank you . so next on free much. thank you. so next on free speech nation. some more questions from our lovely studio audience. and plus i'm going to be asking my panel this evening if they manage to catch a glimpse of the northern lights. exciting stuff. this is free speech nation on

gb news. welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation . now, later in the show, nation. now, later in the show, i'm going to be turning agony uncle. with the help of my panel uncle. with the help of my panel, paul cox and cressida wetton, we're going to help you deal with your unfiltered dilemmas. so please message us @gbnews. com if you've got any problems at all, we will help to sort your life out. anyway, let's get some questions from

the audience. so our first question is from john. where's john? hi, john, our anglo—saxons racist. >> it's an ancient . sorry, it's >> it's an ancient. sorry, it's a funny question, but this has been all over the news this week because there was a journal called anglo—saxon england. this is by cambridge university press. they've decided to change it to early medieval england and its neighbours. now, cressida, my understanding is my understanding of this is that apparently some white supremacists in america use the word anglo—saxon . the phrase word anglo—saxon. the phrase anglo—saxon picked it up, they picked it up. but that doesn't mean the solution to that is to stop referring to anglo—saxons politically. if you're a journal of anglo—saxons, yeah, i think the journal should have more confidence. >> i think the journal should think i do know what it means. i'm the journal. yeah. rather than just because unless they're a front for white supremacists, which frankly, that's what this looks like. that's a possibility. >> no, it's not a possibility. no, of course it isn't. >> we're looking at the rich history of this culture that's involved lots of different groups of people. i don't think there is there are no anglo—saxon. that's not a race, is it? that's a well, you know,

you have you have in america, the phrase wasp white, anglo—saxon, protestant. >> i suppose it's got different connotations over there . but, connotations over there. but, but but you know, it is a bit mental, isn't it. yeah. >> when you concede so quickly , >> when you concede so quickly, it makes you look guilty, doesn't it? isn't it? >> this is the worry. >> this is the worry. >> oh, yeah. sorry. you found they found out. they found out. yeah. and. >> and who's to say that , you >> and who's to say that, you know, white supremacists might start identifying as early medieval english people? >> well, exactly. and then what do you do? and maybe they were a little bit racist, i don't know, i imagine the anglo—saxons were. >> they did a lot of pillaging of foreign land. >> and there was some other stuff they did alongside the pillaging, which was equally as bad, horrible stuff. so look, i mean, i wish we just didn't capitulate because this is a matter of intellectual speak . matter of intellectual speak. you know, this is this is this is about identifying, you know, what should be touched in the culture war and what shouldn't the great swathes of history and peoples within history could just be left alone, because we know we've been studying it ever since. we know that we know what they are. we know that by just by somebody tentatively using it

in some way doesn't make them all collectively bad. now >> yeah, it's a very strange one. okay. well, let's move on. now to another question. this is from adam. adam. hi. hello, should the united states continue to sell arms to israel ? continue to sell arms to israel? >> that's a tough one, isn't it, adam, before you pass the mic on, do you have an opinion on that, i do, i do think that they probably should be using the money elsewhere. and i think it's more of a kind of. they're fighting and not another country, but a certain group of people in a in a small section of part of the world. >> what do you think? because so biden saying he's going to withdraw the money. yeah. and i know this is a this is a dangerous territory, right. yeah, that's exactly biden says netanyahu says he's going to fight on irrespective of that, what's going on here? is it is it perhaps because biden is fearing that he's losing a lot of his voting support base? >> absolutely . i mean, it's just >> absolutely. i mean, it's just the pr war is not being won by israel at the moment, is it? globally, and certainly not with

biden's fan base. yeah, they are the same people that are greta thunberg's fan base, and they probably would have been with the protesters at the eurovision and so on and so on. it's tricky, isn't it? >> so adam thinks the money shouldn't be going to israel anyway. what do you think? >> look, it's all about geopolitics now, isn't it? you've got a war that's going on in the middle east between israel and the rest of the middle east, essentially to some degree. and that is one thing that's happening. and israel tend to be very well connected to the west and by the west. i largely mean the us and us and other parts of northern europe . other parts of northern europe. but the optics for geopolitics is being completely lost now. and with what's going on in rafah this week, it feels like , rafah this week, it feels like, netanyahu's on sort of a one man campaign, and we're losing why he's doing it to some degree. it's like it's like a general election. if he could , if he was election. if he could, if he was able to bring it back to the reasons why we're doing it and about hamas. but i think that's been entirely lost. >> now, the problem with that is i don't think israel had a chance of winning that pr war.

insofaras people were trying to deny what happened on october the 7th. on october the 7th, like immediately people were saying that things were there, have been people denying they were raped, deny , you know, were raped, deny, you know, denying the extent of the murders. well, which, let's face it, it was a genocidal pogrom. let's not forget that. >> absolutely. and the people that are calling for freedom for palestine aren't calling out hamas . hamas. >> and that's something i've never understood either, because hamas have been if you really care about the palestinian people, your priority has to be to disempower hamas. people, your priority has to be to disempower hamas . why? why to disempower hamas. why? why are the protesters not first and foremost saying disband hamas, release the hostages? then we talk about a ceasefire. why not? >> that's a great question. i think in lots of cases, it's because they don't know any better. they've just kids who've joined a protest and it's the current thing to do. in other cases, i guess it's antisemites ism, i wouldn't want to speak for everyone , but, you know, we for everyone, but, you know, we see these interviews where people turn up at the pro—palestine marches and they ask them which river and which sea, and they can't answer the question. there's a lot of that. >> yeah, yeah. it's okay. well, obviously we're not going to solve this tonight, but let's move on to another question. this is from chris. chris did

you see the northern lights on their world tour? well, everyone else did. i didn't because i was quite near the equator at the time, and apparently they didn't go that far down, did you see them? >> i did not, i looked for them, but there was very dark. they weren't there . no, no lights north. >> so it's all just a myth. is it all just i well, i've seen a lot of it on facebook and twitter. >> i know lots of people just taking photographs, martin, the producer of headliners he sent me some photographs he took from somewhere in middle england or whatever. >> yeah, but did he actually take. >> well, i don't know. he could have just scooped them off of instagram somewhere. >> that looks amazing. i didn't see that. and he said, oh, you can't see it with the naked eye. you need a what a good camera. so you can't actually see it unless you've got a smartphone apparently. >> i mean i there's an image that we've got up there and it just, it just looks like the backdrop at europe. >> did anyone in the audience see it. >> did anyone see it here? i mean, i'm sure that it exists. i'm not trying to be a denier, but i just i don't know anyone who personally saw it. >> and that's, you know, the floor manager took some. >> oh, really? >> oh, really? >> she showed me. well, she said

she did. i mean, we don't know. >> well, i mean, it looks very exciting to be honest, i wish i had seen they were everywhere, weren't they. >> and it distracted us. real world, isn't it. yeah. which meant that probably bill gates was doing something with the vaccine somewhere. i'd imagine . vaccine somewhere. i'd imagine. >> they. all right, anyway, let's move on to another question. now, this is from is it trina? >> it's trina. trina >> it's trina. trina >> it's trina. trina >> it should have a little accent on my autocue, shouldn't it? it should. okay, trina, what's your question? >> so by dropping the, apostrophes on street signs, a council is just being lazy. yeah >> i love this story because this was it was north yorkshire council . they've said they don't council. they've said they don't they're not going to put apostrophes on street signs. so like it would say king's road, it wouldn't be the road belonging to the king anymore. it would be a bunch of kings. the king. yeah. collective king's king's road. no, not even a one road belonging to many kings. because the apostrophe would be after the s. there yeah. it'sjust would be after the s. there yeah. it's just no apostrophe whatsoever. so there's no possession going on, and that's to save money, i assume. i think don't believe that for a second. >> i think it's a bit like no mow may, though, isn't it, that councils run out of money and they just invent things not to

do other stuff? >> but are the are the apostrophes the expensive bit ? apostrophes the expensive bit? >> they cannot be, can they? i mean, that's the smallest bit. you could just take a little bit off the r and put it up at the top. >> is the idea here that they think people don't know how to use apostrophe. so they're going to like so let's just not bother with the apostrophe exactly what it is. >> it's a contraction. and it's all part of the same horrors that bring us would of instead of would have, you know, that's that kind of thing. >> but but wait a minute. >> but but wait a minute. >> this isn't the solution, is it? no. surely the solution to people not knowing how to use apostrophes is better education. >> yes. rather than change all the roads, just find a grown up back at the council who does know how to use them. >> but you just know that people have gone out of their contract, has gone out there and someone said there's no apostrophe there. it says, i genuinely don't understand this because it takes you five minutes to learn the rules of apostrophes. >> anyone can do it. if you don't know, just google five minutes, right? if it's one thing who possesses the thing, it's before the s. if it's multiple things, it's after the 5, multiple things, it's after the s, and then if the word is already plural, like children, then it's before the s. that's it. it really is that simple. >> we should get that bambie thug person to do a tiktok about

it. yeah, probably kids would see it. >> although she probably say it was. the apostrophe is a transphobic or something. >> you just know though, that there's contractors that do the letters, contractors that do the apostrophes, and they don't all turn up at once. so there's a council worker there with his broom going, i don't do the apostrophes, mate. that's bob. he's on holiday this week. we can't do it. >> is that what it is? i mean, i get it. if it was difficult, i honestly would. but it's so it's so basic. it's not like learning a foreign language or something. i don't understand . look, this i don't understand. look, this is just the english teacher in me getting angry all over again . me getting angry all over again. but what's the point, the world is going to hell. okay so next on free speech nation, we've got filmmaker jennifer lal who's going to be joining us from the us to discuss her latest documentary , the lost boys documentary, the lost boys searching for manhood, in which five young men describe their experiences with gender dysphoria. please do not go anywhere

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. my

next guest tonight has a dedicated herself to raising the pubuc dedicated herself to raising the public profile of the issue of gender affirmation therapy across the western world. jennifer lyle is a documentarian and founder of the centre for bioethics and culture network. she also directed, co—wrote and co—produced three important documentaries on the subject. the first, transmission , what's the first, transmission, what's the rush to reassign gender, explored the medical ethics of administering puberty blockers, blocking and cross—sex hormone in children . the detransition in children. the detransition diaries saving our sisters told the stories of three young women who transitioned to living life as if they were men , only to as if they were men, only to realise that they are indeed women, and completing the trilogy. this just released the lost boys searching for manhood, in which five young men describe their experiences with gender dysphoria and their quest to find peace in their natural male bodies. let's have a look at clip. >> i made terrible mistakes throughout my young adulthood, including going down the trans gender path. however, medical professionals really led me astray with this. some people are. they're messed up for life.

i'll never be able to have kids. my i'll never be able to have kids. my rugged masculinity is never going to come back. it's all patient led. it's patient led. i want to do hormones and i want to have this surgery . and i to have this surgery. and i think what they should do is a high quality assessment and have some kind of safeguarding for people. i just don't like the idea of being collateral damage for this movement. i don't think that's fair . that's fair. >> and jennifer joins me now from california. welcome to the show, jennifer, and congratulations on the film for having me. no worries at all. so could you tell us a little bit about the genesis of this film? you'd obviously made films on this subject previously , but this subject previously, but this subject previously, but this very much is focusing on on young men, isn't it? >> yes. well, i really appreciated one of your previous guests talking about paediatric medicine in the in the context of the cas report. and i was a paediatric critical care nurse for almost 20 years. but after we made the detransition diaries, which focused on young women , we had an outpouring of women, we had an outpouring of parents come to us and say, please, please tell the story of

our sons because everybody's talking about the girls and nobody's talking about the young men. and so we quickly , produced men. and so we quickly, produced the lost boys saving, searching for manhood and, which was generously, overwhelmingly funded by parents with young boys. and we've seen an uptick of what's called rapid onset gender dysphoria in, in young boys. and we wanted to explore what's going on with our young men. >> yes, i think a lot of people forget , don't they, that this is forget, don't they, that this is affecting boys as well, because the vast majority of the new cases of, of so—called gender dysphoria are female . they dysphoria are female. they forget that. of course it does affect boys as well, but what what exactly can be done? because my understanding is that the cast review in america isn't really being covered extensively on the american media. it's kind of being ignored, but isn't it really, really crucial that people find out the dangers that are involved ? are involved? >> and it really is, andrew. and the irony is, i live in california, which has become one of our sanctuary states. so, you know, gender confused children

from other states, where the laws have been passed that ban this can now flock to california, and you know, our taxpayer dollars will fund a gender affirmation , therapy. gender affirmation, therapy. i live in the backyard of a neighbour of michael shellenberger who released the w path files . and it is really, path files. and it is really, very, unfortunate that that the cas report, the w path files, two very important documents, powerful documents . well, source powerful documents. well, source documents aren't seeming to have, much difference in the debate here in the united states. >> so why is this? >> so why is this? >> because we're talking about so—called progressives, people who think that they're on the right side of history. and yet we know from the w path files from the cass review that this is disproportionately affecting gay youths . gay youths. >> yeah. well, it's interesting because the, you know, again, you know, my own little incubator here in california, we have a very progressive state and we actually have, very

progressive democratic parents who are leading the way to try to get a ballot initiative on our our ballot this coming november that says that, you know, minors can't have their puberty blocked, that children can't change their names, and in boys can't be in the girls bathrooms and play on sports. you know that schools can't hide the fact that their children are using pronouns or different names at school. so i am really, actually hopeful that this will, because it's impacting parents and parents. really, they don't care politically where you are. if you come after their children, they're going to push back. children, they're going to push back . and so i think if we have back. and so i think if we have any kind of success in the united states, it's going to be parent driven. you know, secondarily , it will be people secondarily, it will be people like, you know, what the work that i'm doing, like, you know, what the work that i'm doing , the work that that i'm doing, the work that michael shellenberger is doing. jen's back. there's plenty of organisations that are doing work, but, you you come after people's children and, you know, you, you you poke the beast is part of the problem that those who are known as detransitioners

, in other words, those who have, undertaken surgery and then regretted it later on that they're pretty much invisible in they're pretty much invisible in the media, and they get a lot of flack from trans activists who really, really do give them hell online. >> is it the case that we're just not hearing enough from them? and is your film, to a degree , rectifying that? degree, rectifying that? >> i hope so , i mean, >> i hope so, i mean, absolutely, we you see what happens to those detransition people that are active on social media. you know, they're called all kinds of horrible things. and it's no wonder that the, the, the underbelly , so many the, the underbelly, so many more people have detransitioned, you know, the reddit group of detransition people is in the tens of thousands and growing every single day, but it's no wonder they don't want to speak out because they see what happens. and in all honesty, many of them, they just want to get back and pick up the pieces of their life , they don't of their life, they don't necessarily want to be a spokesperson for their cause . spokesperson for their cause. you know, they're they're hoping that maybe their fertility hasn't been ruined . maybe their hasn't been ruined. maybe their long term health hasn't been

damaged. you know, they talk about being patients for life. so i think there's a lot more out there. and, you know, the media doesn't do any help, in being charitable and generous with allowing the detransitioners to speak . detransitioners to speak. >> tell us a little bit more about the film itself. you spoke to a small group of detransitioners of people who do regret their surgery. were there any common recurrent themes that came up during the course of your of your discussions with these individuals ? these individuals? >> yeah. you know, one thing we noticed, especially on the heels of the detransition diaries book, which was focused on the young women, puberty is very as doctor joe young women, puberty is very as doctorjoe burgo in the young women, puberty is very as doctor joe burgo in the film says, you know, puberty, male puberty is forceful . and so the puberty is forceful. and so the puberty, you know, the puberty experience of young men is very different, you know, the impact of pornography vie, and really rigid , sex stereotypes, you rigid, sex stereotypes, you know, if you want to be a gentle or as richie in the film says, a

soft boy , you know, that's sort soft boy, you know, that's sort of frowned upon . one of the of frowned upon. one of the young boys in the film talks about picking up his mother's purse. he was just doing a nice thing helping his mother carry her purse because her hands were full. and he was from a very traditional family that boys didn't do certain things , and he didn't do certain things, and he was scolded. and that really was an impact on his life. so the role of puberty, the role of pornography , the role of these pornography, the role of these critical stiff sort of sex stereotypes that don't allow for all kinds of expression within maleness. and the fact that i think graham linehan in the film speaks very well. you know, boys want to laugh at things, that maybe they get they get judged for laughing at things that they just naturally, as boys find funny , and, you know, there's funny, and, you know, there's not that freedom. and you wonder today why young boys are looking for whether it be andrew doyle tate or whether it be joe rogan's. and, you know, jordan peterson, you know, they're looking for role models for what doesit looking for role models for what does it mean to be a man today? >> now, the film, as i

understand it, has already been screened in scotland, i think. and you're going to be showing it very soon in london. can you just tell us a bit about the schedule there? >> yes, it's going to be shown in london, on may 29th. it was interesting. we approached a theatre that would not allow us to show the film there. we had quite a bit of difficulty finding a venue, so we haven't actually released the, the venue, but it will be shown on may 29th. doors open at 6:00, people can go to the cbc network. org website and on our events page, that's where they can buy tickets. i checked this morning . there's only ten left. morning. there's only ten left. it's almost sold out. so we're going to have a robust discussion after the screening of the film, mr manos is going to lead the moderate. the discussion with many people that are in the film. i'll be there and my co—writer, gary powell will be there as well . will be there as well. >> fantastic. well, best of luck with it. jennifer, really appreciate you coming on to the show to talk about it. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> and it's absolutely astonishing to me that they couldn't find a venue to screen

this film. and they've had to not release the details, but it tells you all about the situation. we're in at the moment. anyway, that is the end of our first hour here on free speech nation. but please don't go away because there's a lot more to come between now and 9:00. see you very shortly . 9:00. see you very shortly. >> a brighter outlook with boxt solar , the sponsors of weather solar, the sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello! welcome to your gb news weather update by the met office for monday. it's going to be dry in the east, but turning unsettled in the west and also feeling cooler here too. high pressure that's brought a lot of sunshine is moving its way eastwards, allowing low pressure to start moving in as we go to monday . but for this evening we monday. but for this evening we still have some heavy showers around. some of these are going to be thundery, pushing their way northwards , affecting parts way northwards, affecting parts of scotland later in the night, turning drier elsewhere with some drier and clearer spells across eastern parts. low cloud

though in the west temperatures generally around 10 or 11 degrees, so quite a mild start to start monday morning. quite a lot of cloud around that should generally break up, especially across the midlands and eastern parts of england. still, some heavy showers across parts of scotland , but we have got scotland, but we have got outbreaks of rain pushing their way in from the west, affecting northern wales, northern ireland, wales and south england, as well . heavy rain england, as well. heavy rain could cause some disruption, feeling much cooler underneath this cloud and rain and that will gradually push its way northwards through tuesday. so a contrast in where the wet weather will be, but blustery showers are feeding in from the west. some sunny spells as well , west. some sunny spells as well, but temperatures really are going to be a little bit below what we've seen of late but sunny spells. scattered showers in the forecast for the rest of the week. highs of around 20 or 21. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather

on

gb news. >> there's plenty more still to come on. free speech nation this week . but let's get a news week. but let's get a news update first from aaron armstrong . armstrong. >> very good evening to you. it's 8:00. i'm aaron armstrong in the gb newsroom . angela in the gb newsroom. angela rayneris in the gb newsroom. angela rayner is expected to be interviewed under caution as part of a council tax investigation. the deputy labour leader is understood to have been contacted by manchester police concerning the sale of her home in 2015, amid claims she may not have paid the right amount of tax and that she may have made a false declaration about her primary residence on the electoral register . reports the electoral register. reports in a number of newspapers say she'll be invited to attend a police station voluntarily, and will be interviewed under caution rather than being arrested. miss rayner has said

she's confident the rules have been followed at all times . the been followed at all times. the uk says it would support palestine gaining full member status in the united nations when the time is right. it currently has observer status . currently has observer status. the comments by the deputy foreign secretary come as israel launched fresh attacks on northern gaza in an effort to prevent hamas from regrouping. it comes three months after the idf claimed it had taken control of the area . meanwhile, tens of of the area. meanwhile, tens of thousands of palestinians have been fleeing rafah in the south as israel prepares to launch a major offensive . earlier, hamas major offensive. earlier, hamas posted a video claiming a british israeli hostage , nadav british israeli hostage, nadav popplewell, has died after being injured in an airstrike last month. the government says it's urgently seeking more information, while deputy foreign secretary andrew mitchell told gb news it's not unfeasible to suggest a palestinian vote in the un could happen before the middle east conflict is resolved . conflict is resolved. >> it is right to recognise

palestine as a state at the united nations at the right time , and that doesn't have to be at the end of the process for peace, it could be as part of those negotiated lie—ins and britain will support palestine, become , a state at the un when become, a state at the un when we feel the time is right. that isn't now, but it may, as i say, be before the end of the peace process . pi'ocess. >> process. >> at least seven people have been killed and 17 injured, including two children, after an apartment block collapsed in russia , state media says russia, state media says fragments of a ukrainian missile, which were downed by russia's air defences, landed on the building in the city of belgorod. a ukraine has regularly targeted that part of russia. it'sjust regularly targeted that part of russia. it's just 20 regularly targeted that part of russia. it'sjust 20 miles regularly targeted that part of russia. it's just 20 miles from the border between the countries rescue efforts were hampered when the roof collapsed, with rubble covering emergency services. thousands more parents in england will be able to apply for 15 hours of free childcare from today. parents of children who are older than nine months

from september can now apply for support. it brings the age of eligible children down even further with entitlement . for further with entitlement. for two year olds beginning last month, parents must earn a minimum of the equivalent of 16 hours a week at minimum wage , hours a week at minimum wage, but less than £100,000 a year to apply . and two skydivers have apply. and two skydivers have become the first to navigate their way through tower bridge. wearing wing suits. their way through tower bridge. wearing wing suits . well, the wearing wing suits. well, the austrian pair jumped from austrian pairjumped from a helicopter , quickly descended to helicopter, quickly descended to the thames and then went through the thames and then went through the twin towers of tower bridge at about 152 miles an hour before successfully landing. the stunt followed extensive training in oxfordshire, which involved the use of cranes to simulate the structure . well, simulate the structure. well, i'll be back with more a little bit later this evening, or we can get more on all of our stories now by signing up to gb news alerts. the details are on

the screen and also on the website. now it's back to free speech nation. >> welcome back to free speech nafion >> welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. so we've got a wonderful studio audience here. so let's not waste them. let's get a question first from chris. >> chris, are women a little bit like sweets if you think about it? >> oh my goodness. outrageous chris, well, we know about this. this was a, a newly registered islamic charity called the one true message foundation. and this, this guy, from the charity compared women who do not cover their heads to unwrapped sweets. some people have claimed that this is misogynistic and offensive . i think we've got the offensive. i think we've got the clip. let's have a look. >> in new york city, there's a woman or she wore was at >> in new york city, there's a woman or she wore was a t shirt and some leggings. she was abused in one hour of walking

over 100 times in an hour. the same woman done the same walk in the same street for the same amount of time. one hour and she put a hijab on. and a buyer, not a single person bothered her. so it's like this. look, i have to lie. >> what you're saying . >> what you're saying. >> what you're saying. >> i have two sweets. i have two sweets. yeah, one. i open the wrapper and i throw it on the floor. yeah. and i tread on it a little bit. the other one i leave in the wrapper and i throw it on the floor, and i tread on it on the floor, and i tread on it once in the wrapper ones, not i pick both of them up and i say take one. which one are you going to choose? on the wrapper. case closed . case closed. >> case closed. chris o'shea . so >> case closed. chris o'shea. so the problem with predatory men is women dressing provocatively. >> well , obviously, andrew, i've >> well, obviously, andrew, i've been saying it for you. >> his analogy is right off at the end, though, isn't it? when he says, which one do you want to eat? >> and that stunned silence, well, i mean, there's so much

wrong with it. >> this analogy doesn't make sense, but his point is that if you cover up, you won't get any attention on the street. i mean, we've just as you not heard of me, too. this is a very unfashionable opinion. i don't think he cares about the fashion element to this , but, i mean, element to this, but, i mean, look, he's entitled to have his opinion. >> i completely support his right to have. >> he wouldn't say he's citing some some research because this person has gone out in her leggings and t shirt and they've just gone out again, covered up and had less attention covered up. >> yeah. well, i don't deny that. >> i think i think the element that i've got a problem with is, is the focus on these kinds of problems shouldn't be on the women and what the women choose to wear. >> i think solaris, because people have been screaming about this for years, haven't they? it's been something that we've heard endlessly in the uk , who heard endlessly in the uk, who would have thought that religious fundamentalists were misogynistic? yeah, crazy. isn't it unbelievable ? it unbelievable? >> well, andrew, i'd like to meet the woman that walked through new york and every 100 times in one minute, one hour got abused. >> is that was that the

experiment? >> the experiment. well, and then and then a lady walked down with her hijab on. now, the whole premise of the metaphor is that all women are sweeties. yes. the whole premise , as far yes. the whole premise, as far as he's concerned, are women are sweeties to be tasted , doomed to sweeties to be tasted, doomed to be consumed? yeah, i assume so. ihave be consumed? yeah, i assume so. i have a massive issue with that immediately off the bat. yeah, i don't care which ones are covered in dirt and which ones are wrapped up. i don't see women as that . and most people women as that. and most people in the west don't see women as that. what we've got now is a situation where we've had sections of our society well and truly protected from woke ideology , so they have been held ideology, so they have been held up as bastions. these are the minorities that must be protected because everyone else is an oppressor. protected because everyone else is an oppressor . so they've not is an oppressor. so they've not been subjected to the same rules that we have. so they've not had a chance to evolve in the same way as we have. and i know that sounds like a terrible thing to say, but i mean that societally, i don't mean that as humans . say, but i mean that societally, i don't mean that as humans. but what's happening here is they feel emboldened to say this because nobody is questioning them. even the lady in that in

that clip tried to say, well, i don't know if i agree with this and was just spoken over because she's just a mere sweetie. >> i mean, wouldn't it be more appropriate just to treat everyone equally irrespective of their belief system ? because i their belief system? because i think it's quite patronising to muslim people to suggest that they can't be criticised or like what's going on there. >> i completely agree, yeah. what is going on? i mean, i look forward to seeing what happens in the next few days, how this plays out, if anyone else picks it up. yes, it may be that this just doesn't get dealt with in any mainstream arena . any mainstream arena. >> you know, i'm always hammering home this point, but the guardian and would need to pick this up, right? yes. so in order to reach the people that need to understand that this is wrong and we need to challenge it, they won't accept it. the guardian would not run this as a story. the observer on a sunday, they would have been talking. >> that's what i'm saying. in the last few years we've heard a lot about this, this idea, but not in this context. >> no, because. no, because the guardian has run so many articles about how wearing the huabis articles about how wearing the hijab is empowering and, you know, articles that use that

exact phrase. but tell that to the women in iran who are risking their lives to throw the huab risking their lives to throw the hijab off, to protest, to make actual feminist statements. where are western feminists in all of this? well, exactly . all of this? well, exactly. >> where have they? where have they been? which is why i'm i'm glad we're talking about this, but i don't think it's going to get as much attention as i would like. >> no, because maybe guardian readers don't watch. well they do, because they come on to my twitter page and call me, all sorts of nuts. >> they do. >> they do. >> they do. >> they i think they watch it more than anyone else. >> but but, but the reason i say thatis >> but but, but the reason i say that is because we're saying it or because it was in the telegraph, which was where i saw it, or maybe it was in the mail on sunday. people are going to just dismiss it straight away. >> a left right issue? >> a left right issue? >> no, exactly. but it's been made one all of this stuff sexual ality is not a left right issue. religion is not a left right issue . all these things right issue. all these things are not political issues. but we've created groups now where there's wrong and there's right think. and we've made right wrong and left right. strange. which is, well, confusing . which is, well, confusing. >> let's get on to another question now from chris. where is chris? hi, chris. >> has keir, sir keir starmer,

alienated some left wing voters with his stance on open borders? >> yeah it's interesting. so because obviously a lot of left wing activists are calling for a more open, border policy. and because keir starmer is saying they're wrong. but isn't this a bit like when you remember when ed miliband put that mug out that that that mug about how labour was tough on migration and it was suddenly it was just this weird. it's basically a vote winner. yeah. >> well, of course it is. and keir starmer is actually playing a very strong political game at the moment. he knows that he had to in order to because we don't know what keir starmer believes. by know what keir starmer believes. by the way, there isn't anyone out there who really knows what keir starmer believes. he is not sure he does. he's very similar to boris johnson in that way now. he won't like that comparison, but no one really believed that boris johnson was a tory. he was quite liberal in many ways. no one really believes that in any way that keir starmer is leaning to the right on immigration or is in fact a socialist. we don't know. he supported jeremy corbyn now he doesn't like open borders. none of it makes sense. but one thing he is doing is playing a shrewd political game because it doesn't make sense to open your

borders . he knows if he's in borders. he knows if he's in power. open borders are chaos . power. open borders are chaos. for him. it's not the way to solve, you know? and labour said that they can solve the small boats. yeah, but they can't, andrew, because labour are lying. >> well i don't well i mean i'd like some details on it. yeah. i mean they haven't given any. i'm not going to accuse them of lying, but i'd like to know what their details are, what what exactly they plan to do. >> promises he's going to scrap the rwanda idea. yeah. okay. together. he's just announced that's going we think. why do you why do you just give it a 90, you why do you just give it a go, keir? like, you know he wants to spend more money on police. all right. do that as well. >> but do you think he i mean maybe at this point it doesn't matter does it? if he alienates a chunk of his electorate because he definitely going to win, he's definitely gonna win. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> he can say anything he could say. he was a serial killer or whatever he likes more or less. >> i think that's what it would take at this point for him not to win. >> yeah, yeah, really interesting . and i think he will interesting. and i think he will win. and i think politically he's playing a very strong game. i know i said that a moment ago, but labour will win and i do really, really hope that when they come in we see a change because you and i, krista and i, a lot of us on the headliners, have spoken about the uni party and the fact that everybody's

the same, irrespective of their colour, and it still feels that way at the moment, the colour of their party, by the way, case, anyone's wondering what we all know what you meant. >> don't worry about that. let me move on to a question now which has been emailed in. this is from neil, neil asks was the astrazeneca vaccine as good as it was claimed to be? and this is of course, because it's being withdrawn worldwide and that's months after the pharmaceutical giant admitted for the first time in court documents that it can cause a rare and dangerous side effect. and, but but the thing is, we've known now for a while, of course, because there have been people who have very sadly suffered injury and even death sometimes as a result of the of the vaccine. of course, thatis the of the vaccine. of course, that is the case of all vaccines, even though at the time they said, oh no, it's safe and effective, it couldn't possibly have side effects. >> so and people were in some cases made to either lose their job or take a medicine they didn't want to take that for me. >> that's i think, yes, i think the coercion element was a real problem, wasn't it, because we knew this was a virus with a very low mortality rate. we knew it didn't affect children at all. and a lot of these people

were coerced into taking it. and i think that was the problem , really. >> wasn't it about, for me, the choice, the big story here? yeah, it's sort of like , yeah, it's sort of like, remember when you made those people do that that wasn't on. >> yeah. i mean, this is the problem isn't it. because, you know, i'm not surprised. but we've known for a while about the side effects . we know that the side effects. we know that that's that is a real thing. but do you think more should have been made of that earlier? do you think more of those people who had suffered should have been listened to? >> oh, well, look, more should be made of it . absolutely. right be made of it. absolutely. right now, i mean, earlier, whenever it's never been made more of it's never been made more of it's all anecdotal. it's people like yourself, andrew, that bnng like yourself, andrew, that bring it into the spotlight. there's not being talked about on question time. it's not being talked about on whatever itv do politically. i have no idea. i don't watch it, but it's just not being talked about. and because it's not being talked about, we end up with this misnomer that there isn't a problem and that people that are complaining at a problem are conspiratorial in some way. and it's very, very dangerous. we should all go into this knowing i've got astrazeneca flowing around my veins right now. i used to be quite thin when i

first took it. yeah, so there's a few questions i've got, but it's , you know, we all weren't it's, you know, we all weren't poon it's, you know, we all weren't poor. no, no, just just just just seeing that spike protein, wouldn't it . that's actually one wouldn't it. that's actually one of the thinnest i've been in many years actually. and i haven't. but i do have astrazeneca. and we talked about this on headliners the other night. and one of the reasons i tookitisi night. and one of the reasons i took it is i felt compelled to because i couldn't work if i didn't. there were comedy club promoters that were asking for vaccine passports. there were things you couldn't do. or what if i things you couldn't do. or what if! need things you couldn't do. or what if i need to travel? you can't travel without it. and do you know what i just thought? i've taken other stuff. >> i'll take this. the defence from astrazeneca and indeed from many of the companies who are producing vaccines, was that these vaccines save lives . and these vaccines save lives. and yes, there are sadly some some side effects that some people suffer, but the majority of people don't suffer that. >> you know, for me, that's not a defence of forcing people to take medication they don't want to take. that is almost by definition is, experimental because it's so new. >> i mean, but they would say it wasn't experimental. >> well, i'm not a doctor, and i

can't argue that, but i don't feel comfortable at all that in a free society, people were were coerced. it'sjust a free society, people were were coerced. it's just absolutely not. >> and there were examples, weren't there, where people were threatened with losing their jobsif threatened with losing their jobs if they didn't. >> well, there were endless examples of that. and don't forget, you've become a social panah forget, you've become a social pariah as well . and all of this pariah as well. and all of this stuff with all of these sort of toxic subjects we talk about within this ideological warfare, there is there is some good in there is there is some good in the story. you know, the vaccine, whether you like them or not, help bring the end. people would argue that it didn't, but it helped bring an end. it gives some people solace. we should all go into these things being fully aware of what the dangers are and not denying them in any way. and if there are groups of people in society who have questions, let them ask the questions. because if you debate the answers, it makes the rest of us feel okay about it. so at the time, i did it because i felt i had to. right now i quite regret doing it because i don't feel i do regret doing it. i don't feel like i needed to have done it right. >> very interesting. okay, well, one more question. in this section. we've got that from

adam. >> adam. hello again. so my question, a really important one is has rishi sunak ruined the adidas samba for everyone or are you going to be buying them tomorrow? >> interesting. is that what you're wearing? adam >> i'm not, but i do have a pair. >> you do have a pair. do you feel that rishi's ruined the brand? >> i think anything he'd wear might put me off. >> really, i feel i feel a bit bad for rishi, you know? but we all know what happened. he was wearing these. what are they called? samba? adidas, samba? or is it adidas or adidas ? i don't is it adidas or adidas? i don't know, i don't know, it doesn't matter, does it? but he, basically people are saying he ruined the shoe's credibility . ruined the shoe's credibility. can politicians have that power? oh, yes. well, no, because who was it? which political party was it? which political party was it? which political party was it that played? things can only get better by dream like that didn't ruin dream. that's because the labour won with a massive landslide. >> no one was really happy. oh, because we had, like margaret thatcher and john major. >> oh, okay. so is it the case then that rishi. but rishi was just wearing. why shouldn't rishi be able to wear a trainers? >> well , if i trainers? >> well, if i was mr adidas or mrs. or whatever i'd be very unhappy. he's not a cool guy. he's on his way out.

>> i mean, he's not. i don't think he's ever claimed to be cool, has he? >> i don't know him personally. >> i don't know him personally. >> no, i wouldn't want there's an image of him wearing them. >> oh, bless. >> oh, bless. >> i still have more problem with the trouser length than the trainer he's wearing a small boy's trouser. >> don't you think, paul, that we're kind of overreacting ? like we're kind of overreacting? like he was just wearing trainers? yeah, yeah. >> i mean, the problem i've got is rishi sunak and i are the same age, so i look at him and think, oh, look at that. it's like your dad wearing the same trainers. he's probably younger than me, actually, so i would i've got sambas, you know, i'm a middle aged i'm a middle aged white man. that's what we do. i listen to oasis, i wear sambas, italk listen to oasis, i wear sambas, i talk about things being not as good as they used to be. that's that's, you know, that's the toolkit. >> you are the people's gammon . >> you are the people's gammon. fair enough, fair enough. >> it doesn't. it brings attention to them. i don't think it's going to i don't think it's going to affect i mean, if you're, you know, if, if you're a big corbynite and you and you've got a pair of sambas on, you've got a pair of sambas on, you probably take them off for a couple of months, aren't you? >> you might do you might do. okay. well very interesting. but next up on free speech nation should climate change denial be banned, we're going to be joined

by meteorologists who thinks that it should do not go anywhere . this is free speech anywhere. this is free speech nafion anywhere. this is free speech nation on

gb news. welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me, andrew doyle. it's hard to believe here, but in the uk , apparently, last in the uk, apparently, last month was the hottest april worldwide on record. and it continues an 11th month streak of unprecedented high temperatures. this data comes from the european union's climate change monitoring service, who say each month since june 2023 has ranked as the planet's hottest on record. so with that in mind, my next guest wants denial of man made climate change to be made illegal. so please welcome onto free speech nation senior meteorologist jim dale. jim, welcome . to the show. thank you. welcome. to the show. thank you. a lot of people are going to be

surprised by this proposal. do you want to just clarify exactly what you mean by that? yeah, i, i it's time, and by the way, we're sitting here in about 50 degrees in here, which is why you're suffering so that's an air con. >> yeah, i know it is. we could say it's climate change in here. no the reason i'm pushing this is because it's now time . we're is because it's now time. we're seeing day after day. and i see this looking at the data going around. just to give you an example, in terms of the heat that's around the globe at this moment in time, 51.1 degrees was attained in mexico , a place in attained in mexico, a place in mexico, the highest ever may temperature . if you look at temperature. if you look at these continents and you've just mentioned a, you know what's been happening for the last yeah been happening for the last year. and so and it's been going on for much more than that, it's just accelerating beyond beyond belief. >> yes. so i understand that that's your point of view on this and it's fact. >> yeah. it's not a point of view , it's fact. view, it's fact. >> but my point here or my concern, i think a lot of people's concern would be the idea of criminalising an opinion , which is what you seem to be alluding to. is that really what you mean? >> i want to say, first of all, it should be banned on msm and

i'll tell you why by that you mean mainstream media. yeah i do, yeah, mainstream media. the reason, the reason is, is first of all, denial is factually wrong. secondly, it pollutes the political discourse. it puts certain politicians in certain spins. they don't necessarily know about the climatology or the meteorology that's involved. and therefore they go off on a tangent or sit on a fence like sunak and we end up going nowhere fast, potentially . and nowhere fast, potentially. and it's just it's just a case that we have to act. there was if you looked at the news this week, there was two elderly ladies who 80 odd years old, and they went to, the magna carta where they, where they oyster and they broke the glass. now ask yourself this question. are they doing it for themselves? what do they what do they know that you don't? what do they know? what are they trying to protect themselves? or are they trying to protect the generations that are going to come? and that is what the focus should be. that's the point. >> because i think what you're suggesting is that being wrong, let's say that those who disagree with you are wrong, flat out wrong, even if that is

the case, why should it be illegal to say something that is well, that's that's got to go through litigation, that's got to go through a lot of discussion. >> i, i'm asking you on principle, i think on principle we've got to the end of the of that, of that particular, of that, of that particular, of that particular tale, if you like. >> but there are still scientists who disagree with your point of view. >> no, look, there are paid scientists who do it because they're paid by the fossil fuel industry. make that absolutely clear. you're either a paid, paid scientist like that, and there's only a few of them. you're a politician who's just going for the glory . richard going for the glory. richard tice should have been here last week with me after the elections . he didn't make it, i wonder why. >> i wonder why a scientist, jim , who disagree with you, who are not being paid off by fossil fuel. >> they're in. they're in the absolute minority. absolute minority . and then you've got, minority. and then you've got, you know, i say you've got people who just follow the band, follow the politician . you've follow the politician. you've got to think for yourself. have a look around. >> but jim, this is a free speech issue. i mean, you're really suggesting that even if it were the case that a minority view was held by a minority of experts, that they should be

criminalised for expressing that view? didn't we have this with the with the great barrington declaration ? didn't we have this declaration? didn't we have this problem there where they were demonised and had their videos deleted off youtube? >> it's not that simple. it's i didn't use a word and i should have used it, which is dangerous. where we're at at the moment, denial is dangerous because we're going and heading in the wrong direction. listen to if this was sir david attenborough sitting here instead of me, okay, you probably most people would listen to him and agree with him because he's the way that he approaches things. he's quite, quite calm, quite quiet. approach. >> jim to misinformation. better, more discussion, better information open rather than shutting people down. we know from the history of censorship that when you shut down certain people and silence them, it gives it lends a kind of credence to the denial, not the deniers . deniers. >> the deniers can walk into this room anytime they like, and they can have a discussion about how we move forward with climate change, what we've got to do, how fast we've got to move, what are the best ways. so i'm not saying that for one second. i'm talking about purely the denial

of climate change as it is, because it is a massive, massive red herring and you only have to open your eyes and see what is going on. and i'll tell you something , what's going to something, what's going to happen. i know, even myself sometimes you go through the day and you don't think, oh, you're doing the wrong thing . what it's doing the wrong thing. what it's going to take is catastrophe. that's what it's going to take before you open your eyes. that's why i'm saying that it's dangerous. that's why i'm saying denial. we've gone too far. i come into this place sometimes and other places, and i talk about these denialists. and i'm thinking, you're not following any science whatsoever. i'm not wrong. >> but. yeah, but that's okay. >> but. yeah, but that's okay. >> as simple as that. >> as simple as that. >> but but, you know, the inquisition said to galileo, they're not wrong. they said that he was definitely, definitely wrong to support the copernican theory of the earth moving around the sun. they put him under house arrest. do you think we should go back in time and we can go back? >> and then if we. i'll equate deniers to the flat earth society, that's what i would do. okay. that's where we are. >> what would be the harm of

having a member of the flat earth society on saying that the earth is flat? >> because we're not we're not going to lose people economic vitality . we're not going to vitality. we're not going to lose any of that by talking about that. we are if we don't, if we don't get on top of and by the way, lead our way in terms of green energy, renewables , of green energy, renewables, there's a race going on in this world. >> give me an example in history where anyone was by persuaded by being told to shut up, wouldn't the argument be stronger? >> i can, i can say i can give you one go on racism. okay, so that's now illegal. you can't come in here and be racist. you can't be on the street and be racist or overtly racist. >> this is this is similar to being eradicated . or has it been being eradicated. or has it been dnven being eradicated. or has it been driven underground and pushed into the dark corners of the internet where. >> yeah, it may. well, it may well have. and that's because of the internet and that's because of social media. >> it proves that sunlight is the best disinfectant . the best disinfectant. >> but you don't necessarily, you know, the banning of things. if it goes away from the mainstream, more people then start to appreciate exactly what's going on. >> jim , can i just give you

>> jim, can i just give you a quote here from john stuart mill, who wrote a book called on liberty in the mid 19th century. he said, if all mankind minus one were of one opinion and only one were of one opinion and only one person were of the contrary opinion , mankind would be no opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind. good point, isn't it? >> you can continue to have your denial to yourself, to your family in the front room. nobody's going to bash the door down and arrest you. i'm talking aboutin down and arrest you. i'm talking about in the public domain. >> in the public domain, specific example. so we saw dunng specific example. so we saw during the covid crisis , various during the covid crisis, various even scientific journals, medical journals saying that the idea that it could have leaked from a lab in wuhan was a racist conspiracy theory and must not be. it was settled. they said it must not be said. and various people had their accounts deleted online. various prominent epidemiologists that turned out probably to be correct, a correct theory. so if we apply your law about this, which is to silence anyone who dissents, will would just be

repeating the same mistake, won't we? >> no, i don't think we are. i think i think the data , the think i think the data, the science is now at a point where it is completely solid. we can see it going. >> racist conspiracy theory said exactly the same that you're saying now. >> well, yeah, but this is this is my domain. i can't really comment on that domain. >> you cannot concede the principle that you could be wrong. could you not just concede it? >> i look at data . i see what's >> i look at data. i see what's going on. you guys in the audience . you're going to see audience. you're going to see this, okay? you're going to see it coming. you've already you can you you know, as we speak, there are places that that for example, india , we've got we've example, india, we've got we've got schoolchildren, millions and millions who can't go to school because you've got 45, 50 degrees, 51.1 in mexico. all right. you just watched the usa. this, this, this this year coming. okay. it's like we're walking. it's like we're walking in a dream or something. eyes wide shut. you've got to think about what the consequences are because the consequences are dire. and it's not me that's saying that. no, fine. >> but that's you making an argument and you can cite data and scientific studies to

support your argument. that's because of free speech. so somebody who has a contrary view, surely in a free society, should be able to represent their view to you. >> they can do it privately . >> they can do it privately. that's absolutely fine. but what's happening is no, what's happening is , is that the happening is, is that the deniers are polluting the environment virtually . that's environment virtually. that's exactly what's going on. they're lying effectively . that's what lying effectively. that's what you're actually seeing in front of your eyes. and if you if you listen to. well, so my job is, is to stop the lies. >> and that's why my argument would be that the best way to do that, you know, i'm not taking a view either way on the subject. i'm saying on principle, when it comes to free speech, the best approach is not to shut down your opponents, but to argue more impressively than them, to persuade people. >> i try to do that a lot with, with many politicians and other people who deny it ends normally, not yours. it tells you what it ends up. ends up is a shouting match half the time because they don't take in the data. they don't take in what you're saying. the factual information, as i say, if i was

david attenborough, it might be a different a different sort of listening audience, if you like. in other words, they would take it differently. but i'm passionate about this. i've, i've worked in this for 40 years. i'm seeing what's going on out there and people have to not be polluted by what is essentially misinformation and lies. >> isn't the principle bigger than your particular subject though? the principle is if we if we start saying on this one particular subject, we must shut down. dissent doesn't that set a precedent that every authoritarian in history has exploited ? exploited? >> well, if it goes to litigation, if it goes to that stage, it's got to go through the house of commons where there will be a huge discussion, a debate . it won't be me that's in debate. it won't be me that's in there. it'll be them because they make the rules . so be they make the rules. so be careful who you vote for at the next election. it's as simple as that. >> so what sort of punishment would you like for people to deny? >> oh, that's a question, isn't it? i haven't got that far yet. it's not. it's we're going to. i'm sure you'll get to set the rules. yeah. no, i won't get to set the rules. somebody somebody who's in office. keir starmer whoever they will set the rules at the end of the day. but i tell you, it's by steps. it's not overnight. it's not

something that , oh, tomorrow something that, oh, tomorrow you're going to get arrested. if you're going to get arrested. if you say this, it really it's a case of step by step. >> it's tyranny by stealth. i understand . understand. >> i don't think so. i think it's common sense. it's common sense. andrew. yeah. >> every tyrant in history has had a very similar thing. jim. dale, thanks ever so much for joining me. you're welcome . and joining me. you're welcome. and next on free speech nation, satirist miriam elia will be here. hot on the heels of her controversial art installation. finally going on display at a new york exhibition. please don't go anywhere.

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation . in 2016, an art nation. in 2016, an art installation by the satirist miriam elia was pulled because it depicted members of the sylvanian family being threatened by isis . it was sylvanian family being threatened by isis. it was on display at an event called passion for freedom, a festival that's all about freedom of the

arts. but the police insisted that it must be withdrawn, warning that it could provoke an attack . and now, eight years attack. and now, eight years later, the same women behind that passion for freedom exhibition put on a new exhibit in new york, where miriam's work finally got to be seen by the public. and miriam elliot joins me now. me how. >> me now. >> hello, hello . >> hello, hello. >> hello, hello. >> first, i want to start with talking about the piece because it's called isis in sylvania. yes, we remember the sylvanian families, these sort of woodland creatures, very sweet, very lovely animals. creatures, very sweet, very lovely animals . what was your lovely animals. what was your thought process behind it? >> there was it was a response to kind of the terrorist attacks that were happening at the time, it was an artistic response. it just sort of came into my head. ispent just sort of came into my head. i spent a great deal of my childhood playing with slovenians. yes. and one day i envisioned them being slaughtered. >> we can now see one of your. it's a kind of a it's a model, isn't it? >> so this is the first one? >> so this is the first one? >> yes . we see all these >> yes. we see all these creatures having a picnic. rabes creatures having a picnic. rabbits and mice and hedgehogs in the background. a number of other woodland creatures dressed

in isis costumes with an isis flag holding machine guns. yeah, some people would say that's quite provocative . quite provocative. >> yeah, of course they're right. yeah. >> and of course, that's great. >> and of course, that's great. >> so. >> so. >> so. >> so this was meant to be going on.and >> so this was meant to be going on. and there's another image of a gay pride parade here with a, a gay pride parade here with a, a drag kitten and a leather clad badger on a leash. and up there on the ice cream kiosk , we can on the ice cream kiosk, we can see some. what are they, gerbils or something ? squirrels with or something? squirrels with machine guns. >> i actually made their balaclavas out of the fingers of gloves. is that so? >> these are actually physically made items. >> yeah, yeah. >> yeah, yeah. >> and of course it's, you know , >> and of course it's, you know, it's a striking juxtaposition. >> it really is image and it works so well. i shot it to look like a kind of, argos catalogue sort of flat, soulless and insipid. i mean , it's very insipid. i mean, it's very funny, but it also, you know, looking at that, it does immediately just hit ring the right note the cowardice in the face of terrorism, the idea that we're just going to carry on as

normal. yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. that's exactly what it's addressing. >> it's a childish approach. >> it's a childish approach. >> it's a kind of like a fantasy world where all the animals are really getting on well, and there's no hatred here. and then right there in the corner, i chose not to depict the actual violence. i just thought the contrast and the threat was more compelling. >> but it's interesting, isn't it, because art is open to interpretation. there's all sorts of ways that could be interpreted. yeah but the and the gallery was certainly behind it, but the police were not. so what happened? this was an exhibition in 2016. >> yes. so i'd spent 2015 working on the project off the success of a book that i'd done that year with the ladybird book revivals . yes. so i went to the revivals. yes. so i went to the studio and spent a whole year working with sylvanian families, which was like a dream come true. yes and they were finally prepared, and they were created as as light boxes and, and displayed at this, this passion for freedom exhibition, i got a call from the organisers saying that the police had come down. it was in the pall mall gallery,

so i should say near buckingham palace. yes. and the police had come and said, this is this is far too provocative , and it was far too provocative, and it was a free speech exhibition. it was a free speech exhibition. it was a whole it was a freedom of expression. they said, this is this is far too provocative. we're going to have to take it down because it could incite a terrorist attack. what? a bunch of hedgehogs, a bunch of hedgehogs, i mean, balaclavas. >> is it not the case that the police, as far as i'm aware, have no training in art criticism ? criticism? >> well, apparently they do. so they they basically they can't physically take it off the wall, but they can say you must put security around this piece of work, which will cost you £100,000. that seems to be obviously the that's a tactic that they do all the time because it could provoke x, y and z. >> so you hear that on university campuses , whenever university campuses, whenever a speaker is cancelled, they say, no, we're not cancelling your free speech. we just can't afford the security. yeah, it would take. >> yeah. so this whole security scam is what they use to shut people down. >> i mean , when you read this >> i mean, when you read this because i read the email correspondence where the police said it is not art, don't you

feel it's, you know. yeah. chastened by that judgement. >> but we should give them an art exhibition. absolutely. it could be like the weimar you know, like this is art. could be like the weimar you know, like this is art . this is know, like this is art. this is not art. no, but the real point is that they they were exercising their muscle to censor artists . but the weird censor artists. but the weird irony of it is, obviously it was a it was a freedom of expression. the whole point was artists from all around the world who come from very repressive totalitarian regimes, showing their work. whether you like it or not, is, you know , like it or not, is, you know, that's another point. >> but so to play devil's advocate then but what if you did cause some deep distress and offence to someone who happened upon the art gallery about free expression ? they went in there, expression? they went in there, you know, aren't you responsible for their emotional response? no reaction? >> no, because i'm not responsible for the for people's response. there's nothing that you can do that everyone will like. everyone knows that some someone will be offended. >> i mean, i'm trying to gather

what it is specifically that the police had a problem with. like what? what is it? did they give you any more information? >> it'sjust you any more information? >> it's just too intelligent for them . them. >> perhaps that's the case, but you've got you've got to do it in new york. yes. and i suppose there are more protections for free speech in new york, yes. >> there are more protections for free speech. or maybe it's just it it was finally shown there. i mean, channel 4 did pick it up and show it with as part of a documentary with trevor phillips. this was some years ago called has political correctness gone too far? so they showed it to, you know, a p0p up they showed it to, you know, a pop up gallery in shoreditch, i believe, and some muslims came in and thought it was hilarious. >> so the assumption that muslim people would be upset. >> it's. yeah. so they create an environment where they say i, i presume that this group of people will be offended and therefore they can't . it's therefore they can't. it's infantil it's morally infantilizing. people saying they're children that need to be protected. >> and recently one of your pieces has won an award. yes. and this is can we have a look

at this piece? this is, the cancel culture centre . is that cancel culture centre. is that what it's called? >> oh, wait, that wasn't it. >> oh, wait, that wasn't it. >> oh, wait, that wasn't it. >> oh, no, i think they might. they'll find it in a moment. but it's the cancel culture centre. what's this piece about? >> so it's inspired by british engush >> so it's inspired by british english service wall maps , which english service wall maps, which were kind of educational guides of , you know, the post office or of, you know, the post office or the farm or. yes i think you guys know what i mean. yes. and it was a control centre. that was just it was called the cancel control centre. so it's all these men kind of cancelling people based on their emojis that come up of people that have been offended. yes. >> okay. there it is on the screen. right. you can see it there, and on the top the lights come. it's very 1960s. it's sort of painted in that way. it says, you know, that's problematic, that's offensive. and you know , that's offensive. and you know, you're seeing more and more of this, isn't it? >> is this something that you particularly want to address in your art, this, this, this culture that is developing? yeah. what concerns you about it? >> well, it's just it's completely repressive . it and completely repressive. it and it's deeply manipulative. so you

can't. yeah. the minute you say this is my feelings, then there's no debate to be had. >> and finally on that, because they're invulnerable, feelings are invulnerable. >> so how can i have an intelligent discussion about it? >> and do you think , just >> and do you think, just finally on that, do you think that satire and art is the best way to address this? does it actually make it a tangible difference? >> it does, it does. but then many people argue that we live in a world that's gone beyond satire anyway. >> so yeah, well, there is that. >> so yeah, well, there is that. >> it's so absurd that you. >> it's so absurd that you. >> well, miriam, congratulations that the exhibition finally can go on and hopefully the police won't be visiting you again. >> knock, knock. no, no. >> knock, knock. no, no. >> thank you, miriam, really appreciate it. thank you . and appreciate it. thank you. and next on free speech nation, pro—palestine protesters get a 3 am. alarm call with a blast of a.m. alarm call with a blast of rule, britannia. that's right. it's almost time for social sensations. you're watching free speech nation on gb news. do not go anywhere

i >> -- >> on -_ >> on mark dolan tonight. britain's got problems . but the britain's got problems. but the answer is not five years of socialism . in a take at ten socialism. in a take at ten special, i'll be dealing with gary lineker , who has once again gary lineker, who has once again spoken out on the conflict in gaza. spoken out on the conflict in gaza . this divisive figure is gaza. this divisive figure is making a mockery of so—called bbc neutrality. plus, edwina currie live in the studio. see you at nine. >> welcome back to free speech nation. >> it's time for social sensations. that's the part of the show where we have a look at what's been going viral. this week on social media. so first up, we've got this video. it's a rather sweeping and insulting statement from new york's governor, kathy hochul, about black children from the bronx. let's have a look . let's have a look. >> young black kids growing up in the bronx who don't even know what the word computer is. they don't know they don't know these things. and i want the world open up to all of them. because when you have their diverse

voices innovating solutions through technology , then you're through technology, then you're really addressing society's broader challenges . broader challenges. >> why is it that progressives always say the most racist things? i mean, really, do you know, it's like when they say, you know , like black people you know, like black people can't register to vote, so we can't register to vote, so we can't have voter ids , like how can't have voter ids, like how patronising and racist believable. >> i mean, that's incredible . i >> i mean, that's incredible. i mean, she's going to regret that. oh, forever. >> well, i hope so. is it just one of those things she just didn't think before she spoke, and maybe she regrets it, you know? >> well, again, it's being unchallenged all this time, isn't it? so her said that would have all been good intentions you know, want to help the poor black children because all poor, all black children are poor, particularly in the bronx. and she's going from this place where she thinks is good, but she's not seeing it from the wider picture because she's never challenged on her views because of where where she exists in that, in that political bubble. >> but it must come from somewhere. the idea that you've got in your head that black kids don't know what a computer is, it's just it just sounds like racism to me. >> yeah, i agree, or she thinks it's 1897. yeah.

>> no one doesn't know what a computer is anymore. no one says computer is anymore. no one says computer for a start, don't they? >> they don't . that is true. >> they don't. that is true. okay, well, next up we've got the student who took it, took it upon himself to wake up some pro—palestine protesters in a patriotic way. let's have look. >> it's currently 3 am. this is at a rear square . it's actually at a rear square. it's actually abercromby square, but for some reason, that's part of palestine now. and we're going to give them a nice little wake up call . them a nice little wake up call. de—man vaughan gething angels sang this strain rule, britannia. >> britain lose away. britain neven >> britain lose away. britain never, never, never will be saved . saved. >> i don't quite see the connection with rule, britannia and the palestine protest. >> what is that? but it's a bit of fun . and i think he's of fun. and i think he's correctly assumed that the people on the protest won't want to hear that piece of music, i'm pretty sure, but i don't think

at 3 am. they want to hear any piece of music. no, no, that's true. that's a very good point. >> i mean, what do you make of that one? >> that happens to be my alarm clock, andrew. so. >> right. sorry. >> right. sorry. >> so for me, this is totally normal. i can't see what the problem is. >> he got into an argument afterwards with one. of course he did. >> you wake. he can't wake. just can't wake people up. it doesn't matter what you play them. i just can't. even if it's handel, you know, you can't just play it to people and wake them up. you're going to wake people up. they're going to be angry. i don't want to meet the person that isn't angry if they're woke, if when they woke up there, isn't it? yeah, of course it is. i mean, we're i suppose we're supposed to enjoy this. the fact that he's gone and sung, i find it funny and i find it funny. >> i do find it funny. it reminds me of that kerb your enthusiasm, enthusiasm episode where the guy says to larry david he doesn't like wagner because it's anti—semitic. yeah. so he hires an orchestra to play wagner at 3 am. on his lawn, which is a very, very funny. >> before i saw it, i heard ben leo describing what happened in that clip to his team, and that made me laugh a lot. >> so you think it's just a funny joke? >> it's a funny idea to me, but i didn't get woken up. if you do wake me up at three, someone woke me up for me. >> no, i really wouldn't. anyway

let's let's move on. this is the part of the show where we're going to talk about your unfiltered dilemmas. thank you ever so much for sending your problems in. i do really appreciate it. i really don't know why you do, because the answers that my panel give , answers that my panel give, they're never really great. but let's see if we can change that tonight. so we've got a dilemma here from amy. and amy says i have a male colleague who i get on really well with as a friend. he is twice my age and recently asked me on a date. how do i let him down gently without compromising our friendship? what's that crestor? is that is that the age thing? that's the. she doesn't really make clear whether it's the age thing or the fact that she's just not interested. >> she's not making it clear, but it clearly matters to her because it's in there. she didn't have to mention it. >> that's true. >> that's true. >> that's true in her mind. >> that's true in her mind. >> i mean, how much older is he? twice. twice the age she is. >> this could be really problematic. >> yeah, but wait a minute. leonardo dicaprio, she's 14. i'm leonardo dicaprio, she's14. i'm worried. oh, no. but this is. >> she shouldn't be at work, then. no, exactly. other worries. this is. >> let's assume this is an adult, right? and of course, why shouldn't he ask her out on a date? >> it's a tricky one. is she? i mean, her question really is, what can i do to retain the friendship and the answer is

absolutely nothing now, because you are going to destroy his self—esteem and he's never going to speak to a woman again. >> what do you do, kristen? when people ask you out and you're not interested? >> yes. >> yes. >> cressida, what do you do? >> cressida, what do you do? >> i do , i just never it never >> i do, i just never it never happens. >> no, not that people don't ask you out. >> and not that you're always interested . i'm not saying interested. i'm not saying you're very. >> oh, i'm getting myself in a hole here, aren't i? i think she well, what i don't do is write to a television show , and. to a television show, and. >> that's right. take it. >> that's right. take it. >> i think, amy, the worst thing you could have done is write to us. okay, let's move on to another dilemma. this is from jack and jack says, my girlfriend and i are extremely competitive with, with one another. i cannot beat her at pool another. i cannot beat her at pool. and i'm becoming really frustrated with it. it's got to the point now where i will check that the bar that we are going to doesn't have a pool table to avoid being beaten again, and it's starting to cause arguments . any advice? i think you need to get over yourself. this sounds like masculine fragility . sounds like masculine fragility. >> it does sound masculine. >> it does sound masculine. >> what's so wrong with a woman beating you at pool ? beating you at pool? >> there is nothing wrong with getting beaten by a woman at

pool getting beaten by a woman at pool, is there? i mean, obviously for him, if that is all he's clinging on to, that is all he's clinging on to, that is all he. if that is what his relationship is based on, he may want to think it could. >> there would be good for the relationship to have a bit of you know, if she's dominating. >> i'm very impressed that he's got the skills to plan ahead and phone and establishment. there's a lot of men can't do that anymore. i mean, that's incredible anxiety though, phoning the pub and checking if the pool tables are. >> i can't get my head into your head. jack. i think this is very much a you problem. we're going to move on to our final dilemma, which is from amelia and amelia says, my friend and i have booked a holiday together. it's my first time abroad. i'm so excited. i've always wanted to go to an outdoor water park, but my friend won't go because she has a phobia of slides . how do has a phobia of slides. how do i help her get over her fear so i can go? well, you can still go, but she doesn't have to go down the slide. i mean, my understanding of those parks is it's not compulsory to go on the slide, but maybe i'm wrong. >> imagine being thrown down a slide against your will. i think she should show her that clip we saw earlier. of the two guys, i assume they were guys i don't know. that sexist, what was it called? kiting through the. >> that man? yeah, the wingman

thing. >> wingman? >> wingman? >> oh, that thing . >> oh, that thing. >> oh, that thing. >> show. show the friend that. and then she might be grateful for a water. i mean, doesn't she? >> she should get over a water slide. is not a scary. it's not abseiling, is it? it's kind of. >> yeah, but we've all all of us have got that thing we're scared of that we don't want to tell anyone about, you know, and phobia of slides. >> no, i don't know what happened to her as a child. >> that's what i don't want to know. but she quite clearly is scared of water slides, which is a bit of a shame because they're so much fun, aren't they? the one thing you can do without making much effort, which is what i love. >> okay, well, look, i think we've solved all your problems. thank you so much for joining for us free speech nation. this was the week when a man in a skirt won eurovision. keir starmer went tough on immigration and rishi sunak made adidas trainers uncool. thank you so much to my panel, cressida wetton and paul cox and to my guests liz kavanagh, jennifer lyall, jim dale and miriam elia. and if you want to join us live in the studio, be part of our wonderful audience. that's dead easy. just go to sro audiences.com. stay tuned for mark dolan tonight. that's on next. and don't forget the headliners is on every night at 11:00. that's the late night

paper preview show where comedians talk you through the next day's top news stories. thanks so much for watching free speech nation. farewell . speech nation. farewell. >> that warm feeling inside from boxt boilers sponsors of weather on . gb news. on. gb news. >> hello! welcome to your gb news weather update by the met office for monday. it's going to be dry in the east, but turning unsettled in the west and also feeling cooler here too. high pressure that's brought a lot of sunshine is moving its way eastwards , allowing low pressure eastwards, allowing low pressure to start moving in as we go to monday. but for this evening we still have some heavy showers around. some of these are going to be thundery , pushing their to be thundery, pushing their way northwards, affecting parts of scotland later in the night, turning drier elsewhere with some drier and clearer spells

across eastern parts. low cloud though in the west temperatures generally around 10 or 11 degrees, so quite a mild start to start monday morning. quite a lot of cloud around that should generally break up, especially across the midlands and eastern parts of england . still some parts of england. still some heavy showers across parts of scotland, but we have got outbreaks of rain pushing their way in from the west, affecting northern wales, northern ireland, wales and south england as well. heavy rain could cause some disruption, feeling much cooler underneath this cloud and rain, and that will gradually push its way northwards through tuesday. so a contrast in where the wet weather will be. but blustery showers are feeding in from the west. some sunny spells as well, but temperatures really are going to be a little bit below what we've seen of late but sunny spells. scattered showers in the forecast for the rest of the week. highs of around 20 or 21. >> looks like things are heating up. boxt boilers sponsors of

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gb news. >> it's 9:00. on television. on radio and online. in the united kingdom and across the world. this is mark dolan tonight. britain's got problems. but the answer is not five years of starmer's socialism . as the starmer's socialism. as the country finally gets back on its feet . be careful what you wish feet. be careful what you wish for . as the foreign secretary for. as the foreign secretary david cameron, accuses labour of standing for nothing and of naked opportunism . has the naked opportunism. has the natalie elphicke defection backfired ? also today is the backfired? also today is the 25th anniversary of devolution . 25th anniversary of devolution. my mark meets guest. lisa cameron defected from the snp to the tories. i'll be asking her whether it's time to bring

scotland back into westminster and bring