♪♪ this sunday, party leader. >> senate minority leader mitch mcconnell joins me for a wide ranging interview as he prepares to step down as republican leader later this year.

>> this is my principal interest, pushing back against isolationism. >> his thoughts on donald trump's courtroom campaign. >> do you think that presidents should be immune from criminal prosecution for actions while they're in office? >> obviously, i don't think that. >> and his own legacy. >> do you ever regret your vote to acquit? >> plus, escalating tensions. >> free, free, free palestine! >> protest over the israel-hamas war spread on college campuses across the country. >> occupation is a crime! >> what impact will it all have on president biden's re-election campaign. >> i'll talk to democratic senator tim kaine of virginia and barrier breaker. civil rights icon ruby bridges joins me for our meet the moment conversation. >> i was thrust into the middle of a situation that no 6-year-old should be put in. >> joining me for insight and analysis are.

jeff bennett, co-anchor of prngs bs news hour. jonathan martin of politico. former white house press secretary jen psaki and marc short, former chief of staff to vice president mike pence. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press". >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. after a monumental week marked by the first-ever criminal trial of a former president and history making arguments before the supreme court, while donald trump sat in a new york courtroom on trial for 34 felony counts of falsifying business records, the supreme court heard arguments on trump's claim of presidential immunity which could reshape the future of presidential power. the justices appeared ready to reject trump's sweeping claim that he's immune from any

criminal prosecution on felony changes of conspire see and on charges of trying to subvert the 2020 election, but suggested they might give trump a victory, a delay in the case signaling they could send it back to lower courts. at issue, a version of this claim that richard nixon made in 1977. >> when the president does it that means that it is not illegal. >> in nearly three hours of oral arguments the liberal justices raised a series of hypotheticals to emphasize the consequences of mr. trump's position that presidents are entitled to absolute immunity. >> if the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person and he orders the military or orders someone to assassinate him, is that within his official acts for which he can get

immuneity? >> it would depend on the hypothetical, but we could see that could be an official act. >> if the president sells foreign secrets to an adversary, is that immune? what if he orders the military to stage a coup. >> i'm trying to understand from what the disincentive is from turning the oval office from the seat of criminal activity in this country. >> for their part the conservative justices on the court seemed focused on the impact on future presidents. >> i'm not concerned about this case, but i am concerned about future uses of the criminal law to target political opponents based on accusations about their motives. >> i'm not discussing the particular facts of this case, but it applies to any fraud that interferes seriously with any government operation, right? >> i'm not focused on the here and now of this case. i'm very concerned about the

future. >> one of the strongest cases against immunity was made in 2021 by senate republican leader mitch mcconnell after he voted to acquit trump in his second impeachment trial. >> we have a criminal justice system in this country. we have civil litigation, and former presidents are not immune from being accountable from either one. >> i sat down with the senate republican leader and discussed presidential immunity and a range of other topics including the protests on college campuses nationwide and the recent aid package that was just passed for ukraine. mcconnell helped secure the deal after a months' long delay and fierce opposition within his own party. i began by asking about his call this week with ukrainian president zelenskyy. >> what was your message to president zelenskyy and is this aid getting there too late to make a difference, leader mcconnell?

>> i can only express my own view is that i'm with him and i don't think we ought to try to force a settlement they don't want to make. i have the same view of israel, for example. the administration basically saying we ought to have an election. it's not our job to tell a democratic ally whether they ought to have an election. also, i think we've done some of this in both these countries, tried to give them restrictions on how they fight the war. they are there. they're in the conflict. i don't think telling them how they ought to run their military operation is in our best interest or theirs. >> i want to get to the isolationism in your party, and i do want to get to the middle east, but just on this point, do you think after this six-month battle for aid to ukraine, do you worry it's getting there too late? >> i think we need to stick with them. i think it's important to us.

look at all of the good things that have happened to us as a result of this. most of the money is being spent in the u.s. in 38 different states. the europeans have stepped up. we have two new members of nato. the prime minister of japan here a couple of weeks ago spent a lot of time talking about ukraine. he previously said if you want to send president putin a message, it will not go away after one supplemental. well, let's talk about your concerns about the future. the isolationism in your own party. what is your message to the isolationists in the republican party? >> ronald reagan had it right. you get peace through strength, and i would say to the democrats, they've got a problem on the left so it's up to us to

have an isolationist discussion. you have visible on the left and we all have to be serious about the challenges ahead of us, engaging in antisemitic behavior in the united states needs to be stood up, too, by the administrators of these colleges. >> we will talk about the colleges, antisemitism, though, is not just a problem that's unique to one party or another. antisemitism is something that the country is facing together, but i do want to ask you on this issue of the republican party. you say it's turned the corner of isolationism. what gives you that confidence when house republicans voted for more aid to ukraine than for it? >> well, i'm minority leader of the senate, and i can only report how we've done here.

we had predicted correctly that if there were votes in the house it would pass, and i'm proud of the fact that we got ten more votes this week than we had two months ago, and i think our member ps are focusing on the facts and the facts are that this is in our best interest. this is not some charitable contribution to ukraine. >> but 15 senate republicans did vote against it. so to people who say we're not turning the corner, this is where the party is headed. >> i think the party is heading in a different direction from them. >> from the isolationists. >> yeah. >> let's move on to the tensions in the middle east that have spilled over across this country. as you referenced we have seen pro-palestinian protests on college campuses across the country. house speaker mike johnson was at columbia university this week.

he said, quote, this is dangerous. this is not the first amendment, this is not free expression. do you agree? >> you said pro-palestinian, there's also anti-semitism which is unacceptable. i was shocked to see that in this country. the first responsibility is the administration release colleges and that's the first responsibility and so the speaker is correct in saying -- laying the blame on the administrators. when i was in college, and i bet when you were in college there were plenty of debates, but we were not trying to shut people up and aggressive, civil discussions, that's the responsibility of the college administrators and to do anything else makes them look like they're sympathetic with

one side or the other, and i think restoring order and civility, to have reasonable debates is what needs to happen. >> to the students who were protesting peacefully though, do they have the right to protest on college campuses? >> of course, yeah, but i think people need to understand just the fact that we have the first amendment doesn't give you the right to scream fire in a theater and run everybody out. i mean, sure, you're free to speak, but you're not free to harm others with your speech. >> i want to talk about abortion which, as you know, is one of the biggest issues for people all across this country right now. back in 2022 you said a national ban was possible. so as i sit here today i want to ask you, leader mcconnell, would you support a federal ban on abortion. >> i said it was possible. i didn't say that was my view.

i just said it was possible. >> would you support a federal ban? >> the supreme court has put this back into the legislative arena, and we are seeing it play out all across the country, and i think in the end it will reflect the views of these individuals' fates, but i did not say -- i said possible. i didn't say that was my view. i don't think we'll get 60 voits in the senate for any kind of national legislation. i think it's a practical matter. it's going to be sorted out at the state level. >> if a federal ban came before you for a vote, though, would you support it? a 15-week federal ban with exceptions, what lindsay graham is proposing? >> i'm not advocating anything at this level. i think it will be sorted out all across the country and be very different in different states. so you don't think a federal ban is likely? you think it's possible.

>> i don't think any federal election is likely to get 60 votes in the senate on any direction. >> when i talk to advocates, they say they want clarity from the republican party on this issue. should the republican party take a stance on whether it supports a federal ban? >> at the risk of being redundant, it seems to me views about this issue at the state level vary depending on where you are, and we get elected by states and my members are smart enough to figure out how they want to deal with this very divisive issue based upon the people who actually send them here. >> let's talk about what's going on at the supreme court this week. in 2021, you voted to acquit donald trump in his second impeachment saying on the senate floor, quote, we have a criminal justice system in this country. we have civil litigation and former presidents are not immune from being held accountable by either one. as we sit here, donald trump's

attorneys are arguing before the supreme court that presidents are immune from criminal prosecution for actions that they take while they are in office. do you agree with that argument? >> we're going to find out, aren't we? we the supreme court is going to deal with the direct issue that i was referring to on february 13th of 2021, and i think we'll find out some time soon. >> what do you think, leader mcconnell? do you think that presidents should be immune from criminal prosecution for actions while they're in office? >> obviously, i don't think that, but it's not up to me to make that decision. the president clearly needs some kind of immunity or he'd be in court all the time. so we'll see how the supreme court deals with it. >> just to be very clear, you said former presidents are not immune from being held accountable. you stand by those comments? >> yes, that's my view, but i

don't make that decision? >> you stand by those comments. >> that's my view. my view is only my view. i mean, the court is going to decide this. >> just to be clear you stand by those comments, former presidents are not immune from being held accountable. >> i do, but how many times i have to say i'm not on the supreme court. i don't get to make the final decision on that. >> do you ever regret your vote to acquit former president trump in his second impeachment trial? >> look, he was not president anymore at that point. there was a big debate about whether or not you could even impeach somebody, remove them from office that they don't hold. i stick with what i said then. i addressed this issue on january 6th, and on february 13th. i stand by everything i said. >> so you do not regret your decision to acquit him?

>> stand by everything i said when i addressed this issue on january 6th and february 13th. >> and you have said that you endorse former president trump. are you going to vote for him? >> i said three years ago shortly after the assault on the capitol that i would support the nominee of the party, whoever that was, and i do. >> and that includes voting for him? >> i said it three years ago. i'm not just making news today. i'm simply referring back to what i said shortly after the assault on the capitol. >> and to those who hear that and wonder how you can support him despite being so critical of him after january 6th. >> there's no question, none, that president trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. >> despite saying that we've got to leave this up to the courts,

what say you? >> the answer is the republican voters of this country have spoken. get to pick the nominees for president. how i'm spending my time is on something i can have an impact on which is making sure my successor is the majority leader and not the minority leader. >> i want to ask you about your legacy. you said just this week that you often feel like the only reagan republican left. as you prepare to step down from your leadership position this year, what are your greatest concerns about the future of the republican party? >> i tell you, i feel better about it after we had our vote. i don't know what i said then. it may have been before the vote, but i do think peace through strength which is the reagan formula, not the robert taft isolationism back in the '40s is recovering, and i think

in this episode more of my members really focused on facts and it's hard to argue against the supplemental. it's in our interest. this is not charity to ukraine. it's in our interest, and i think we've sort of refocused on the importance of playing the kind of role that we need to play in the world. it's in our interest. none of this is charity and the whole democratic world is in favor of what we did this week. that should get the attention of our members, plus all of the jobs that are being created in their states with the money that we're spending retooling our industrial base for the big challenges ahead against china and against russia and against iran. >> i hear your optimism and yet some republicans say this is the last aid bill that will ever get

passed to ukraine. can ukraine count on the united states to stay with it for more support, more aid in the future? >> well, just to go back in history one more time. before world war ii robert taft was the most important republican, everybody knew who he was and he wanted to be president. he opposed land lease and most of the republican senators did and after the war pearl harbor changed all of that for a few years and after that he opposed nato in the marshall plan. ran in 1952 and unfortunately lost to eisen hower and had a totally different view of america's role in the world and the role we needed to play. so we've had a tendency to be isolationists when there were democrats in the white house, but i think -- if you look at the condition of the world right now it's actually more dangerous than before world war ii, more, because we have terrorism that they didn't have.

>> and yet the leader of the republican party espouses an america first foreign policy which is the very definition of isolationism. what concerns you about that as you prepare to step down from your leadership position? >> well, it's a family dispute. i won't go over the detail, but you all have had that sort of thing recently, as well. it's a family argument, and i'm pretty clear on the non-isolationist side, and i try to do my best to convince my members that that's the way to go. even after i leave this job i'm not leaving the senate and this is my principal interest pushing back against isolationism. >> this will be your focus once you step down? >> it is. it is. >> leader mcconnell. thank you very much i really appreciate your time. >> thank you. when we come back, student protests over the war in gaza spread across the country.

will it impact president biden's re-election campaign? democratic senator tim kaine of virginia joins me next. i'm your overly competitive brother. and i'm ready for a rematch. game on. i've been practicing. what the cello? you want me to lower the hoop? foul! what? you going to tell on me again? foul yah? foul bro! here take a free shot go ahead knock yourself out. your about to get served. seriously? get allstate, save money,

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viking. exploring the world in comfort. welcome back. colleges across the country are grappling with growing tensions over the war in gaza as protests spread, more than 200 protesters were arrested at campuses across the country saturday. usc has canceled the main commencement ceremony. joining me now is democratic senator tim kaine of virginia, the author of a new book "walk, ride, paddle." a life outside. senator kaine, welcome back to "meet the press." >> kristen, great to be with you this morning. >> it's great to have you, senator. let's dive right in and talk about the protests that we've seen on college campuses across

the country. they are not monolithic, they are palestinian and some of the protests are calling for a ceasefire. we've also seen antisemitism on some of these college campuses. my question for you this morning, do you think the biden administration, the president has a role to play in this moment in addressing what we are seeing in these college campuses? >> kristen, it's a really good question, and you know, this is a tough one because people have a right to protest and make their views known, and almost, you know, overwhelming percentages of people do that peacefully, but there are those who intimidate or harass others. there are those who speak in hate speech or antisemitism, and so giving people the latitude to do what they ought to be able to do and trying to curb unacceptable behavior is tough. we know of places where maybe these discussions are not being done the way they should be.

they're not being done civilly, but there's also universities that i think are doing this right, and one of the things that i think it might be important for the president and maybe the education secretary and secretary cardona to do is hold up some examples of colleges in the country, and i think there are a number of them where discussions about difficult topics like israel and gaza are happening, but happening in a way that really can be a model where people can express their points of view on tough issues, but not feel intimidated or harassed because of the positions they hold. so i think the president can use the bully pulpit to kind of hold up some good examples, and i would hope that he and other members of the administration might do that. >> let me ask you about how far you think this should potentially go. as you know, speaker mike johnson visited columbia university this past week and he said, quote, if this is not contained quickly and if these threats and intimidation are not stopped, he said that the

national guard should be calling. is that something you would support if the situation escalates on college campuses? >> i think calling in the national guard to college campuses for so many people would recall what happened when it was done during the vietnam war, and it didn't end well. the national guard going to college campuses can't stay -- and elsewhere, did not end well, and i think that would be a very, very bad idea. i think there are other ways using campus security, but also again, offering students more opportunities to have dialogue that is civil and constructive where people hear one another and that's by far, preferable. so no, i do not think the national guard is a solution to this. >> i want to ask you about the policy now of what is happening in the middle east. you voted this week for foreign aid bill that will send more aid to israel and that includes about $9 billion in aid for military, weaponry. i want to play you something

that your colleague, bernie sanders had to say and get your reaction on the other side. >> netanyahu and his extremist government are clearly in violation of u.s. and international law and because of that should no longer receive u.s. military aid. >> is he right, senator? what's your reaction? >> so two things. senator sanders voted against the aid package which was ukraine aid, israel aid and i voted for the package because we need to defend ukraine and i think the u.s. needs to help israel defend itself. it was two saturdays ago hundreds of missiles and drones fired by iran to attack israel on its soil and the u.s. and other nations helped israel defend itself so that did not cause damage in israel which would only have led to an

escalation. so i believe we do need to help israel defend itself from those who would annihilate it, iran, hamas, hezbollah and others, but we also need to lean on israel and we have been doing it increasingly publicly to allow more humanitarian aid to gaza and that was in the package we voted for on tuesday, to do what they can to reduce civilian suffering. the most important thing, kristen, right now that we all need to reach is we need to reach a ceasefire and hostage release. release the hostages, get into an extended ceasefire that would de-escalate violence in the region and it would enable us to get more humanitarian aid to gazans and it would open up this discussion that was long delayed to palestine. a future promised in 1948, but has never been realized. >> senator, i want to ask you about your book, "walk, ride, paddle." i have it right here. you say in one section of the book, 2016 when you were then

secretary clinton's runningmate taught me some painful lessons about a country i thought i understood. what are the lessons? how do they apply to this election particularly when president biden is losing support among young voters over this very issue we are discussing, the war in the middle east? >> a couple things that i learned along the way, kristen. i embark on this virginia nature triathlon when i turned 60 and celebrated 25 years in public life. 2016, one of the things i learned pretty powerfully is there's still a double standard affecting women. look, i knew that intellectually. i'm married to a professional woman, and i've seen it in her life and in the lives of others, but not until i was on that trail with hillary and saw a good person and a good public servant, you know, judged more harshly than her opponent in numerous instances. i think i really got a ph.d in the continuing existence of a double standard for women, but i

also learned on my journey something really important. we are polarized in this country in politics. joe biden or donald trump or israel or gaza. there's a lot we disagree on, but we need to remember without sugar coating that, there are also areas where we agree. in nature, you find unity. you find democrat, republicans and independents who find their favorite sunset or fish to stream in. as americans we can't sugar coat the issue that divides us and there are also things we have in common and i found that in my virginia nature triathlon. >> it is a pretty profound message. it is a good read. senator tim kaine, thank you so much for joining us for your insights this morning. we really appreciate it. >> you bet. thanks, kristen. when we come back, as donald trump's criminal trial played out in new york this week, his lawyers argued to the supreme court that a president might be immune from prosecution even if

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jeff bennett, co-anchor of pbs "news hour." jonathan martin, politics bureau chief and columnist for politico. former white house press secretary jen psaki, host of "inside with jen psaki" and marc short, former chief of staff to vice president pence. thank you all for being here, getting up early. the morning after the white house correspondents' dinner. i really appreciate it. jonathan, let me start with you. >> sure. >> and my exchange with leader mcconnell which i asked him if he stands by his argument that no one is immune. he ultimately said yes, he stands by it and it comes after we've had this extraordinary day of arguments at the supreme court. >> i thought it was a superb interview. >> thank you. >> i think mcconnell is torn between politics and history. he is trying to find a way ahead in a party that's led by someone who has nothing but contempt for.

mcconnell thought he was discredited and i know that because he told me so that night. mcconnell is in the shadows of his career with the nominee and maybe the president who he finds contemptible and policy issues like national security and he makes that point to you. at the end of his career he will fight this fight on national security because that's what his legacy is trying to keep that reagan flame aloft and the only way he can is for national security. it's just fascinating that he says he will dedicate his time. marc, you were obviously there with mike spence on the capitol and you testified before the grand jury. i'm curious about your take because it seems base adwhat we heard at the supreme court it is very likely that this case would get kicked back and that could be delayed and that likely means that this case won't go to trial before election day. what are the implications of

that? >> kristen, i think that most voters have made their decision at this point and i think the president's actions on january 6th, he should be held accountable for the voters and i'm not sure the legal system should render a verdict beforehand. from the court's perspective. this is a novel case and it's understandable, the process and the american people have held him accountable and mitch mcconnell is entirely consist own the this and despite the president's dereliction of duty and at the end of the day you don't want to be impeaching presidents and you don't have a white house counsel's office, and that would be a terrible precedent. >> the interview was very well done. >> thank you. >> he said a lot of things that a lot of people in congress would agree with on a range of positions, however, he struck me quite passive for a person that's not passive. he's not a wallflower.

he's the senate minor the leader and this guy is not shy. what he told me is that he is struggling, i want to talk abouts a lagzists and who we are as a country, but i don't want to touch trump. the problem is trump's view, he's the leader of the party. he is an isolationist and he's intrinsically tied to that effort. >> jeff, what about that argument that i tried to make at the end of the interview. you say you're turning the corner on fighting against isolationist. the leader of your party right now is espousing an isolationist viewpoint. >> that was especially pronounced on january 6th when we saw the majority leader saying that donald trump was practically and morally responsible for january ofth and he voted to acquit, not once or twice when he voted for the impeachment trials. certainly, he's trying to preserve his role within the party and make sure that as he said that republicans emerge victorious in the election.

>> well, president biden made a little bit of news on on the state of play this week when he was asked if he would debate president trump. here's what he said. >> will you debate your opponent. >> i've invited biden to debate and he can do it any time, including tonight. >> i'm curious for what jen psaki's reaction, when he heard president biden that he would debate. biden's folks don't want to give trump that platform and risk exposing him on national tv. >> if i was in my old job from two years ago, you also don't want him to say no because no is weak and no is fear. so you have to say yes. they both have to say yes. whether this happens, there are lots of things that need to be negotiated. >> it won't happen tonight. kristen is not ready for it.

>> it will be a tell for us this summer that biden has room to make up and he's got to come back still. >> one of the issues that they will undoubtedly both have to deal with if they debate, geoff bennett, what is happening in the middle east. we are seeing how fraught that issue is. it's playing out on college campuses all across the country. they are not monolithic and this something they have to grapple with. >> we've seen president biden trying to calibrate on one hand and one hand defending students rights to protest. i talk with biden allies who say that yes, these protests are significant and be in large part because the students who are actively engaged in these demonstrations as the biden campaign sees it. they are a subset of a subset of the electorate and if he has challenges with younger voters, it likely won't be on this issue on the catastrophe in gaza and

it will likely be on the economic issues and the high cost of living and so on and so forth. speaking of which, president biden has a challenge in trying to keep together this broad, disparate coalition. >> it's hard to keep them all on the same page. >> young voters, jonathan, who he needs to turn out in force. >> that's the challenge. if you go to michigan or wisconsin and take the college towns, ann arbor, madison. if you can't keep those folks away from a third party candidate or staying home altogether there goes michigan and wisconsin and there goes the presidency. it's not more complicated than that. >> a lot of people noted that president biden hasn't come out and made formal remarks about this just yet and does he need to? to my point to senator kaine, do you think he will announce executive action on this? >> he did announce he will speak at morehouse university in a couple of weeks and that is a significant decision.

there will be undoubtedly be protesters there. that in itself is a statement. i want to be in the belly of where people are feeling this passion. to echo what geoff said, it's important when you're in the white house and sitting on a campaign you are very mindful what you are seeing of young people on college campuses and also the harvard iop poll with housing costs and that is the number one issue for young people in these polls and you have to be mindful, as well and people experiencing antisemitism across the country and i do find it ironic, trump, echoing hitler and talking about antisemitism and you have it factor in all those things and factor in how you will win the world and the war. >> leaders of the higher institutions are clktively cowards. the university of florida is unique in that they're allowed free speech and protection of the students and how many lgbt

people are aligning with the palestinian protests wheremost muslim countries they'd be sentenced to death and killed and yet in israel they'd have the same rights as any other citizen and yet they're aligning themselves with palestinians. >> the national guard should potentially be called in, senator tim kaine said that would be a huge mistake. >> i agree with that, but let's stop and reflect. there are eight americans still being held hostage, kristen. who are the protesters protesting? >> many are protesting the 30,000 people who died in gaza. >> there was a ceasefire before hamas attacked. >> it is a complicated issue and we will continue to discuss. thank you for a wonderful conversation. when we come back, preside bident type 2 diabetes? discover the ozempic® tri-zone. ♪ ♪ i got the power of 3. i lowered my a1c, cv risk, and lost some weight.

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welcome back. president biden took on his age and his campaign rival at the white house correspondents' dinner last night. >> the 2024 election's in full swing, and yes, age is an issue.

i'm a grown man running against a 6-year-old, but look, age is the only thing we have in common. my vice president actually endorses me. >> biden, who has held fewer news conferences than his predecessors also roasted the journalists in the room. >> some of you complain that i don't take enough of your questions. no comment. [ laughter ] >> while attendees celebrated the first amendment at the dinner inside. pro-palestinian demonstrators outside the washington hilton protested the president's handling of the war in gaza. our friend and colleague kelly o'donnell who is the president of the white house correspondents' association and a senior white house correspondent used her remarks to bring attention to journalists who have been captured or killed for doing

their jobs. evan gershkovich, austin tice and reporters who have been killed in gaza. she also highlighted the need to preserve press access. >> my gratitude is multiplying because this week marks a career anniversary for me. 30 years with nbc news. [ cheers and applause ] we believe that independent, professional journalists on hand to document the events of a presidency are stewards of something precious, more enduring than any news cycle or trending topic. we preserve the historical record. part of the legacy of the first amendment. >> in her 30 years at nbc news which she marked this week, kelly has covered four presidential administrations, seven election cycles and has been a frequent panelist on "meet the press." so congratulations to kelly and the entire white house correspondents' association for another great evening highlighting the importance of journalism and a free press and

for awarding scholarships to the next generation of journalists. when we come back, the 6-year-old who became a tiny, but mighty symbol of bravery in the fight to deseegategr (vo) a law partner rediscovers her grandmother's artistry and establishes a charitable trust to keep the craft alive for generations to come. from preserving a cultural tradition to leaving a legacy, a raymond james financial advisor gets to know you, your passions, and the way you enrich your community. that's life well planned. ♪♪ some people just know that the best rate for you is a rate based on you, with allstate. because there's a right way to. stop! and the speed limit definitely isn't. 700 million mph. so why would you pay a rate based on.

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welcome back. at just 6 years old ruby bridges became a civil rights icon simply for attending her school which was newly desegregated in 1960. bridges and her mother had to be escorted by federal marshals under the loud jeers of segregationists who protested her basic education. over the past 25 years bridges has been visiting schools all across the country and replying to letters from students who sought her advice. some of that correspondence is in a new book, "dear ruby, hear our hearts." a sat down with ruby for a meet the moment conversation. she described the painful experience she had as a little girl, at one point using a racial slur, words she heard at the time as she speaks in deeply personal terms. >> thank you for being here. it's a real honor to be able to talk to you. i want to start off by talking about this beautiful book that you have written in which you

answer the letters that children have written to you. what do you hope people will take from your book? >> you know, it took me back to being 6 years old and thinking about what i was going through, and i think we as adults we underestimate the minds of our little ones because i know that i was having these really grown-up, adult thoughts. i was thrust into the middle of a situation that no 6-year-old should be put in, and i was really thinking about all those things, and so when i started to read some of these letters i thought, wow, things really haven't changed all that much. we are still underestimating our kids. they are still concerned about grown-up issues, and i heard their hearts. >> take me back to what that was like for you when you were 6

years old. you were being escorted by u.s. marshals into a school that was newly desegregated. you had to sit in a classroom all by yourself. what was that walk to school like for you? >> you know, my parents never explained to me what i was about to venture into. the only thing they said is ruby, you're goinging to go to a new school today and you better behave, and living in new orleans and being accustomed to mardi gras. we see that during mardi gras, huge crowds, screaming and yelling, so what i often say what protected me was the innocence of a child. i thought that day was venturing into a mardi gras parade. so i wasn't afraid. it took a while before i really found out that the crowds were out there for me, and that happened when i finally had an opportunity to meet another child. >> tell me about that. >> kids were being hidden from

me. there were some white parents who tried to send their kids to school with me, but they were never protected by federal marshals like i was, so they had to cross that picket line and they were being attacked. so even if they were not racist it would probably be very hard for them to send their child, but they did, a few of them, and the principal was part of the opposition. so she would take them and hide them so they would never see me and i wouldn't see them, but once i got into the classroom and met these other kids, a little boy said i can't play with you. my mom said not to because you're a nigger and the minute he said that everything sort of claim into focus for me, that it wasn't mardi gras, that the crowd out there was out there because of me and the color of my skin. >> after you realized what these crowds were saying to you, how

did you feel going to school every day walking past them? what was that like for you? >> i would not really focus on them. i would block them out, and mainly because i loved school. i never missed a day, and that was because of my teacher, and an amazing teacher who came to boston to teach me. she was white. >> barbara henry. >> barbara heenry. there were days when we opened the window, because we didn't have air-conditioning, and they were shouting and chanting and she would close the window and said today we'll have music. there were little things that she did that made me love school. i knew that if i just got past a crowd that it was a short walk and into the building and i was going to have a great day.

>> what goes through your mind when you hear these debates unfold all in schools across the country about what should be taught, what should be read, what shouldn't be, access to books. what do you think about? >> i think that's ridiculous. most of my books have been banned, and the excuse that i've heard them give is that my story actually makes -- especially white kids feel bad about themselves. but i believe that it's just an excuse not to share the truth to cover up history, but i believe that history is sacred. that none of us should have the right to change or alter history in any way. >> are you afraid that not just your history, but the history of civil rights is being threatened in this country? >> yes. those things are what we live

with today. the history, all the subject matter that they want to ban, it's happening in the world. we cannot live in a bubble, put blinders on like it's not happening, and if we think that we are actually fooling our kids by banning books, oh, my god, where are we, really? because kids have computers. they have so much information at their fingertips. i have to go to my grand baby to say tell me what's happened, open my phone. do this, all of us. so we're not -- we're not hiding anything from our young people. >> if you could talk to the 6-year-old ruby bridges, what would you say to her on that first day of school? >> i would just say, ruby, it's okay. don't worry. it's all going to be fine. it's going to work out.

>> ruby bridges, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> really powerful conversation there. that is all for today. thank you so much for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."