of small things was a political book. booker prizethe for people in india, a lot of people like to think about it -- they wanted to blame me, but let's ignore the fact it is about the most brutal and ancient hierarchy any society has produced in the past. let's not talk about that. it can be a book about children, a book very later -- lyrically written, and so on. fiction that for writers to avoid writing about some, you have to assume extremely complicated yoga posture, you know? the real thing is can you look at the air -- this is the air we breathe here. music,ot just -- it is

poetry -- all of that. i am not in the least bit shy of as a writer,o me to be able to write about love, intimacy, about music, poetry, sameiolence with the intensity is what matters to me, but to try to edit out these things because you don't think that, maybe, the market wants it. amy:, tell us the plot of the book. it begins in a cemetery and hindus are not buried, they are committed, so these are muslims. it is about the fringe minority innocence. tell us about the book. arundhati: that is a rather mean

question. it is difficult to answer that. [laughter] arundhati: timmy, what can i say -- to me, what can i say? city, the it as a plot is a big city in my part of the world -- it has people trying to plan it, and then those citizens unplanning it -- it is always sabotaging itself, the plot. it was against the contours of nature. aboutly wanted to write ir. a i do not see this book as a book about issues, political issues. one of the main characters -- it is not about marginalized people, as you say at all -- it

is those characters who are in some ways india. lives ina society that wherewe live in a mesh everyone lives within their cost, community, -- caste, community. only 3% of people marry outside of their community. the characters in this book border running through them, of gender, of caste, of religious conversion , sort of, begins in the old city of delhi, and spirals out into the new into -- into kashmir, as you said, but the

nerve center of the book is this place that has been shut down, but it used to be the place where protesters from all over india would gather, and it is a place where i spent a lot of time. one night -- i would spend nights there. it was just a most interesting place, and one night when i was baby appeared on the pavement, abandoned, and all of these movements -- all the wisdom, all the politics, they did not know what to do with that baby. -- althoughhink that is not how the book begins, that is the nerve center, with the chapter called nativity, where the baby is the antithesis of christ born, a little black

--l swallowed in garbage this story, to me that chapter is like the inversion of the beginning of "war and peace," wherere all ththe beautiful peoe gather. this is the gutter ball. the story takes you out from there. amy: the main other characters outside of the baby -- your main characters. arundhati: the characters are -- there is -- born into a shia muslims family -- samam -- muslm family, born as a boy, but soon discovers she is really a woman trapped in a man's body, and at the age of 16 leaves home to live in a community of trans people. she lives in old delhi with a group of people that belong to a

variety of genders as complicated as the -- which they referred to as the outside world. so, themselves and the world are separate. years.nds her teenage one of the most beautiful and of delhi -- the foreign correspondents, they quarter. they want to do this story. the thing about her, that is not only who she is. she is a shia. she is a woman that wants to be a mother. then she gets caught up in the massacre of 2002.

is at up because she muslim and she escaped, and people think it is bad luck to kill. amy: -- the massacre. the massacre took place. anjum, slowly, as she recovers from her trauma, she begins to look -- and then there is her friend saddam hussein, who also escaped from a massacre. anger, decides what the untouchablesof the

did. muslim and calls hussain, and then you have an intelligence officer is the voice of a state, who understands things in an historical perspective, and he has the ability to wait, to watch, to think in this generous -- he is a member of the elite that have been displaced now by right.w of aobart, the name character he plays in a college play, is a pretty brilliant character. he is not easy by any means. -- the love.

woman living on the border of sanity and very, very irreverent, lowly woman. lowly in the sense she is a love woman, but she does not know how to really receive it because she lives on the borders of so many things. amy: arundhati roy is describing her latest novel. her second. it is called "the ministry of utmost happiness." and we will continue with her in a moment. ♪ [music break]

heart" -- in the heart of the city." this is democracy now, the war and peace report. i am amy goodman with nermeen

shaikh. our guest is arundhati roy, the author of the new novovel out in paperback "the ministry of , utmost happiness." arundhati roy won the booker prize in 1997 for her first book, "the god of small things." lessen: the book more or concludes with modi, in allusion to modi. you said his real kaiser with the rss. could you explain what the -- ties are with the rss. could you explain what it stands for and why it is significant he is more aligned with the rss than the pjb? it is basically a natural self help society, but it is the most powerful organization in the country

today. it was founded, as i said, in the 1920's, and it has always believed in rewriting the constitution. it has openly believed india should be declared a hindu nation. its ideologues have openly india -- they of are the jews of germany. it is a formidable organization. it works in education. it has slum wings, publishing wings. it really writes the story of what is going on today, and it is not just modi, but almost all of his ministers, including the former prime minister -- all of these people were members of the rss. -- winsher or not the

elections or loses elections, the rss's work just goes on. political arm of rss. there is no way it can have an independent agenda. so, the danger today is that because of the massive majority with which they came to power, every institution has been infiltrated by the rss. amy: we will do part two of this discussion at democracynow.org. author ofroy,, the "the utmost happiness," and another democracy now announcement -- congratulations to our dear producer and her husband peter. what a privilege it was for nermeen and die to get to hang

out with our very dear, newest member of the democracy now family. and, nermeen: welcome to the world. i've been brought up

on american films, story and narrative. call it classical, traditional or old fashioned, i'm drawn to those forms, try to stick them.