well, that does it for me at this hour. i'm richard lui. follow me on twitter, sfwrinsta, and facebook, and let me know what you think. i'll turn it over to al sharpton and "politics nation." good evening and welcome to "politics nation." tonight's lede, critical mass. democrats in congress are losing patience with the trump administration's noncompliance with basic democracy. coming on friday's bombshell news that president trump asked former white house counsel don

mcgahn, both before and leading up to the mueller report's public release, to tell the world that the president did not obstruct justice, a request mcgahn denied in both instances, sticking to his story that the president tried to have special counsel robert mueller removed in 2017. the white house is fighting to keep mcgahn from testifying before congress. but how judiciary chairman jerry nadler is playing no games, warning that he has another contempt vote ready if mcgahn does not comply. also yesterday, the house ways and means committee subpoenaed both treasury secretary steve mnuchin and irs commissioner charles rettig for six years of the president's tax returns. meanwhile donald trump jr. is

signaling he also will not comply with a presidential subpoena, this one from a republican-led senate intelligence committee. and attorney general william barr has yet to turn over the unredacted mueller report to congress, even after this week's vote to hold him in contempt. i sat down with speaker nancy pelosi early this week one on one as part of a civil rights roundtable. and i can tell you, while she wants her caucus to stay focused on kitchen table issues, she is warming up, i think, to the "i" word, that is, if the president doesn't impeach himself. joining me now, carrie sheffield, conservative commentator and national editor of "accuracy in media," and chris lu, former white house cabinet secretary under president obama. let me start with you, chris. we are in a confrontational

crisis, jim clyburn said, if we're not in a constitutional crisis. but we're clearly where we have not seen this country before. you worked in the obama administration, cabinet level. what does this do to the rule of law and the regard of co-equals between executive, legislative, and judicial branches, when you have the executive branch down the line saying we're not going to comply with congressional requests even to the point of subpoenas? >> you framed this exactly right. this is about respect from one branch of government, the executive branch, for the other branches. in addition to what you mentioned at the outset, there's two other things i would put on the table. one is the president shifting money to fund a border wall that congress said he could not do. secondly, the president not defending the affordable care act, a duly passed law by congress in the federal courts. when he gets these federal court

decisions he doesn't like, he questions the legitimacy of those courts. this is not sustainable in a democracy. we have democratic norms. the branches frequently battle it out. but they always reach for some kind of accommodation and we haven't seen that with a president who is insisting on stonewalling these legitimate investigations. while deputimocrats i know are some ways reluctant to discuss impeachment, the president is actually laying out that case for them. article iii of the nixon impeachment was about the president willfully ignoring subpoenas issued by the judiciary committee. >> correct. carrie, getting past the partisan back and forth, is it not dangerous when we start having one branch of government act as though they are not accountable, they will not regard checks and balances, which is the way the country was laid out from the founding fathers? >> well, they absolutely are

regarding the checks and balances. if you look at the federal rules around subpoenas, around grand jury procedures, under rule 6-e, it is illegal to have any sort of disclosure of grand jury information. so it is illegal for gerald nadler to demand this information from the executive branch without executive order. >> demanding to have what? >> the full unredacted report. >> they have said they will not give him any of the unredacted report and they will not give them the president's taxes. you have gone to one narrow point in this. they're talking about not getting the testimony, not getting the unredacted report in full, not getting the president's taxes. there's no law in 6-e barring any of that. >> we know, the irs has been used to badger and bash conservatives. >> that has nothing to do with the law. >> it has to do with the irs, it has -- >> the there are laws that you

have to comply with the congress, even the irs. >> no, but there are laws of executive privilege that allow the executive the jurisdiction over its own rules as well. >> your contention is that president trump, then, can use executive privilege not to give his tax returns, over six years? where does he get executive privilege there? that doesn't fall under executive privilege. >> there is no public use or public interest. that would be -- the irs is an executive function. the irs is the executive branch. so for the congressional branch to try to exert authority, that is a constitutional crisis. >> it's checks and balances, isn't it, mr. lu? what do you mean, public interest? it's in the public's interest to know if the president of the united states has had some kind of engagement with foreign interests that could influence him. there's a lot of public interest here. >> yes. let's try to break all this down.

the 6-e issue is an important one. this is about the disclosure of grand jury materials. that's one part of this. but what the president has done is, he's asserted executive privilege to everything in the mueller report. >> that's correct. >> and that stretches beyond what any legal scholar thinks executive privilege means. notwithstanding the fact that he's probably already waived it because all of his officials have gone to talk to the special counsel. that's one aspect. the second aspect is the statute that requires the secretary of the treasury to furnish, it says "shall furnish the tax returns." this idea that there needs to be a legislate legislative purpose is one that's been concocted by this administration. that being said, there is a legitimate legislative purpose, that is to make sure the president doesn't have conflicts of interest. >> if there was some illegal behavior by the president or conflict of interest, this would have already been exposed from his decades of being in business. >> exposed by who? >> by the irs.

>> first of all, you can comply with the filings necessary with the irs and not have been found to have a conflict of interest because you were not the president of the united states. if you're the president of the united states and you have done business with foreign interests, that could influence you, that's different from when you were a real estate developer in new york who could deal with anyone in the world and there was no conflict that would affect the governing of the united states. there's two different worlds you're talking about. >> well, again, the irs is an executive function. and until there is a court order for these irs documents -- >> it is the law, carrie. there is a law, as quoted by mr. lu, that you have to hand them over, that they have the right, correct me if i'm wrong, to ask for those documents. you can try and change the law, but they have not changed the law. that is the law. >> it is an interpretation of the law. >> it's the law. >> section 6103 of the internal

revenue code says the secretary shall furnish. but let's go more specifically to this. this week "the new york times" reported that the president had lost $1 billion during the course of a ten-year period leading up to the mid-'90s. we don't know, in the past 20 years since that reporting, what happened to the president's finances. how did he rebuild his fortune? who was he doing business with? we know he has a whole series of shell operations. it's important to understand that. here's the thing, the idea that he can't disclose his tax returns because he's under audit, that's fictional. his own irs commissioner says there's no law that says he can't disclose that. >> carrie, you're crave, you're -- you're a conservative, you're a republican. does it not bother you that any president may have dealings with a foreign power that once they became president, they were in a

compromised position to make decisions and to protect the united states' interest because they had debt or dealings with a foreign power? would that concern you? >> it would. but again, you -- as so often happens with democrats and liberals, they want to project, project, project. >> i'm asking a question. >> in this country you're innocent until you're proven guilty. >> no one is saying he's guilty. they're saying they want to see the documents so they can see whether he is guilty or not. usually when people hide things, they have a reason to hide them. if the law says they will furnish it, why wouldn't you furnish it? that is not somebody harassing. that is the law. they are co-equals in government. the executive branch is not over the legislative branch, you would agree with that. >> there is a distinction. >> you would agree with that. >> i agree. but there is a dispute here about the interpretation. >> how do you interpret that you will furnish that?

tell me how you interpret that another way. >> again, there is no legitimate purpose. >> so if somebody serves you a subpoena, you will say, i will interpret whether or not i am going to listen or regard or respect this subpoena? you feel you have that authority? >> when i'm the president, i will. >> then you will say, mr. lu, that the executive decides and we're moving toward an ought accuratic governme autocratic government. >> in any other setting, if you don't comply with a subpoena, you get dragged to court to explain to the judge why you're not complying. the statute could not be any clearer, it is "shall furnish." any first year law student can spin out a dozen legitimate legislative purposes, not that the statute requires it. >> we'll leave it there right now, we'll come back to this. you don't need a law student, a

public school student like me knows what "shall furnish" means. more with carrie and chris coming up in the show. coming up, this presidential candidate says this talk of impeachment is only working to the president's advantage. senator bernie sanders joins me live, next. be right back. ht back. they feel that they have to drink a lot of water. medications seem to be the number one cause for dry mouth. i like to recommend biotene. it replenishes the moisture in your mouth. biotene definitely works. [heartbeat] the 2019 subaru outback is how safe is the car you're considering? an iihs top safety pick plus. the honda cr-v is not. sorry, honda. which suv would make the best investment? the subaru outback has the best resale value in its class for 2019, according to kelley blue book. even better than the toyota rav4. sorry, toyota. it's easy to love a subaru.

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never far from a headline or a fresh idea for this country,

vermont senator bernie sanders is one of the biggest names in politics today. he's running for president while continuing to push for new legislation in the senate. he has plenty of money and goodwill to draw upon after his run four years ago. but even with all that, he has a unique challenge this time around. in nearly every poll he's near the top of the field of more than 20 democratic candidates. in nearly every early poll he's trailing vice president joe biden. now in sanders' neighboring state of new hampshire, polling shows mr. biden with a two to one advantage over the senator. mr. biden is publicly predicting a short primary race. joining me now on "politics nation," bernie sanders. thank you for joining us, senator. >> good to be with you, al. >> senator, i want to get to your legislation that you and

congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez has proposed. is there a point where you start going after joe biden? will you confront him in the debates, will you confront him to show the difference between biden and bernie? >> al, if you look at that particular new hampshire poll, they had two-thirds of the people that they reached out to were over the age of 50. and that's not the way the people of new hampshire vote. i think it was a selection of older people, which is not accurate. i feel very good about the campaign. we have over a million volunteers. there was a poll that came out just a little bit before that that has me winning in new hampshire and i'm confident we are going to win in new hampshire. and the reason i think we're going to win this election, win the primary election and defeat trump, is that the issues that we are talking about are the issues that are on the hearts

and minds of the american people. you know, and that is the -- you know, the incredible corporate agreed that we are seeing and what unfetterred capitalism is doing to this country. what alexandria and i are talking about, al, is the absurdity of wall street making tens of billions of dollars by charging working people outrageously high interest rates, 20, 25%, on loans that people need to take care of their basic needs. you're looking at the pharmaceutical industry making tens of billions in profits, charging us the highest prices in the world for medicine. you're looking at the insurance companies having a situation where we spend twice as much per capita on health care as the people of any other nation. they're making huge profits. ceos of huge corporations making 300 times when their workers are making. the american people are saying, enough is enough, we need an

economy, we need a government that works for all of us, not just the 1%. that's what our campaign is about. >> are you saying, are you pledging you will not go negative on joe biden to close the gap in the national polls, are you pledging that you'll just run on policy and not get into personal attacks even in a debate? >> absolutely. look, i detest what takes place so often in a modern campaign. and my family has been a victim of that. i mean, ugly, disgusting opposition research, trying to rip apart people. that is not what politics should be about. and it's certainly not what should be taking place in the democratic primary. >> so joe biden can relax that you're not coming with personal attacks. how will you distinguish your record, since you and he are considered the front runners by just about every poll, how will you distinguish yourself from joe biden, why, if i'm watching this show, do i choose bernie

over biden? >> i think that you look at our records, i think that you look at our votes that we have cast. joe spent a long, long time in the senate. i've been there for 13 years, i was in the house before that. and i think you look at what our vision is for the future of this country. and i think if people take a hard look at my voting record, my vision, it's quite different than joe biden's is. >> he says he's the most progressive guy in the race. you would concede that? >> ha, no, i don't think joe is the most progressive candidate in this race. look, i think if you look at my voting record, if you look at my vision, if you look at the fact that over the last four years, al, the democratic party and much of america has moved in the direction that i talked about four years ago. you know, four years ago i said we've got to raise that minimum wage to a living wage.

15 bucks an hour. oh, people said, bernie, you're crazy, it's too extreme. well, you've got seven states in the country that have already done that. the house of representatives will soon do that. when we talked about medicare for all, people said, oh, nobody in america will support that. poll after poll understands that health care is a human right, not a privilege. we should not be spending twice as much per capita on health care as any other nation. we should move toward medicare for all. climate change. four years ago i said we had to be bold in transforming our energy system away from fossil fuel. we have to take on the oil companies and gas companies. criminal just reform, education reform, making public colleges and universities tuition-free. those are ideas that i talked about four years ago. i'm very happy that many candidates from dog catcher to candidates for president of the

united states are talking about exactly those issues. >> so in many ways you're moving the party further and further to your thinking and away from the thinking of people like mr. biden. are you going to confront that in the primaries or are you just going to talk policy and hope people get it on their own? >> no, look, what an election is supposed to be about, to my mind, al, is not disgusting personal attacks on people's families or on who they are. and i will never do that. but should we talk about, you know, differences of opinion? i helped lead the effort as a member of congress against the war in iraq. if you go to youtube, hear my speeches about what i feared would happen in terms of the destabilization of that region. joe voted for the war. i was very strong in opposition to our trade policies, whether it's nafta or permanent normal trade relations with china

because i did not want to see american workers thrown out on the street as their jobs moved to low wage countries. joe supported those trade agreements. i voted against the wall street -- the wall street legislation which made it easier for banks to merge and which in my view helped lead -- lay the groundwork for the wall street collapse of 2008. joe voted the other way. i think, you know, more recently, joe talks about a middle road for climate change. well, i think, you know, that climate change is an existential threat to our planet. and the scientists tell us we've got 12 years to aggressively transform our energy system before we have irreparable harm to our country and the planet. we have real differences. but i like joe, i respect joe, and i look forward to an issue-oriented campaign, nothing to do with personal attacks.

>> now, in line with the policies you said you and congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez, you began saying, has really laid out a legislative policy that would deal with a lot of what is going on in terms of where wall street has made benefits. how does this impact the average american that's watching this show? >> big time, al, big time. you know, there was a recent report that came out from the fed, and that report said that half of america has virtually no wealth at all. people have nothing in the bank. you've got half of this country living paycheck to paycheck. so if a kid gets sick or somebody ends up in the hospital or your car breaks down, people have got to borrow money. and they use a credit card to borrow that mope. and wh -- money. and what we find is that at a time when wall street gets 2.5%

from the fed, they're charging median interest rates of 21%. half the american people are paying more than that. that, al, is usury. that is loan sharking. and that has got to be ended, because we are seeing people pay a significant part of their income on interest rates, on high debts, because their incomes have been stagnant. so this is -- this really deals with the agregreed greed of wal and we have got to end those type of usurious interest rates. >> whoever is the nominee at the end of the primaries is going to then have to face, we assume, president donald trump. do you believe that america will vote for someone that has described himself as a socialist and that they will not see your policies as a socialist policy

that's changing the very nature of what this country, they believe, was built on? >> well, i am a democratic socialist. and what that means to me -- and i should preface that, al, by saying that every major piece of legislation, whether it was social security, medicare, medicaid, you name it, has been defined by republicans from way back to today as being socialistic. but i believe that health care is a human right. i believe that medicare is the most popular health insurance program in the country today. and i see no reason why over a four-year period we should not expand medicare to every man, woman, and child in this country. and we can do that at the same time as we save the average person a significant sum of money on his or her health care bills. i believe -- >> now -- go ahead, i'm sorry. >> that's okay.

>> let me ask you this. in order to win the nomination, any candidate is going to be challenged to get significant black votes. clearly in the last two years you've worked very hard to make an impact in terms of black voters. you were well-received at national action network's convention. how do you deal with the race gap? because when we deal with usury, there's a disproportionate amount in the black community. >> that's right. >> when we deal with issues of unemployment, even in an economy where we've got the unemployment rate down 3%, blacks are 7% unemployed, almost double. how do we close the race gap, where we have conversations about the race part of usury is still going to leave us unequal. s yes,yes.

>> yes, you're absolutely right, al. we have massive levels of income and wealth disparities. within that you have racial disparities where white families own ten times more wealth than black families, where, as was recently reported, unbelievably, black women in childbirth are dying at rates equivalent to third world countries. infant mortality rates 2.5 times higher in the black community. redlining exists. the criminal justice system is largely racist. i think what we have to do, and jim clyburn of south carolina had a really good idea, he said 10% of all federal funds should go into distressed communities where unemployment is high, where the schools are inadequate, and where health care is not available to people. and that will mean significantly

funding communities of color all over this country. and that is what i think we have got to do to begin to deal with the racial disparities which are a product of institutional racism in the united states. >> all right, senator bernie sanders of vermont, never ducks a question. thank you for your time. >> thank you, al. this week president trump granted a full pardon to an army lieutenant convicted of killing a naked, unarmed iraqi principaler principal prisoner in 2008. the aclu is calling it presidential endorsement of murder. my thoughts on the matter when we come back. the matters.ar... introducing the all-new 2019 ford ranger, it's the right gear.

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qaeda on an attack that killed some of the lieutenant's fellow soldiers. mansour was cleared of those allegations but was later stripped and shot to death after his release. the lieutenant claims he was attacked, forcing him to shoot mansour twice in the chest and once in the head. a military court called it an n unpremeditated murder and sentenced him to 25 years in prison, later reduced to 15. he was released five years ago but slated to stay on parole for the next decade. of course you know all that, mr. president, because his politically connected oklahoma parents got in the ear of the state's governor and its congressional representatives and then they got in your ear. not for the lieutenant's freedom

or for his record of service but for his good name. but this isn't about a misguided parent's love or even about you using your pen for every conservative cause that lands in your or bit. no. it's about a chicken hawk president continuing to vouch for convicted war criminals, arguably because in every instance the crimes are committed by white american soldiers against brown muslims thousands of miles away from anywhere your supporters care about or can even find on a map. we'll be right back. every curve, every innovation, every feeling. a product of mastery. lease the 2019 es 350 for $379 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. if his denture can cope with... a steak. luckily for him, he uses super poligrip. it helps give him 65% more chewing power. leaving brad to dig in

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i've talked about my dreams publicly. and i've been discouraged for doing so, that i wanted to be the governor of georgia, that one day i intend to be the president of the united states, that in between my responsibility is to do the work

to make those things real. >> stacey abrams imparting words of wisdom today, delivering the commencement address at american university. the georgia democrat has been coy about her white house aspirations, but this week she said she's looking at, quote, executive level opportunities, including a run for president. carrie sheffield and chris lu are back with me to discuss. i want to ask you, before i get to stacey, what was your reaction to bernie sanders' interview? he seemed to be very clear on the difference between joe biden and him, he was not going to get into family attacks, but he certainly did not mind giving some very open differences, and i would say blows on what he felt mr. 3w50biden's politics ws opposed to his. >> he was clearly very -- selves drawing contrasts, which is what you would expect in a campaign. and where he is right, and bernie's right on a lot of

things, is that his policy from 2016 has really become part of the mainstream of the democratic party, whether it's minimum wage, community college, broader health care expansion. the question is bernie is not whether he has the right message. it's whether he's the right messenger, and whether he can actually get the support of a majority of the democratic party. now, make no mistake, he will be in this primary contest until the very end. he has the ability to raise a lot of money. and whoever the other person is, other finalist is going to have to be bernie. in the end we coalesce and support the nominee. >> will this country in a general election vote for someone calling themselves a socialist, whether it's a democratic socialist or whatever, culturally, the culture of the country, are we ready to do that? >> and rev, i appreciated that question you asked, i thought it was a spot-on question, because there are many, many millions of

americans who detest the word "socialism" and everything that bernie stands for. it is incredibly galvanizing. i did not actually vote for president trump for 2016. i will probably vote for him in 2020. he converted me with his policies. in -- >> i shudder to ask what policies, but go ahead. >> i am so much more galvanized by someone like bernie sanders because of what he stands for. he can say -- he tried to dodge your question and say, it's a gentler -- if you call the snake something other than a snake, it's still a snake. his speechwriter, he praised maduro and called it an economic miracle. he's trying to say his rhetoric is softer and gentler but it's the same thing. there are so many millions of americans, and the thing about bernie, i agree he has diagnosed that the system is rigged but he wants to rig it even further. >> let me go to stacey abrams. the fact that she threw out

there today that she does one day want to be president. if she joins this field, and it's a crowded field, over 20 and counting, we're hearing there may be more, there are rumors that my mayor of new york may run, how does stacey abrams affect the democratic primary if she entered the race? >> she is an incredibly attractive candidate, as she showed in her gubernatorial race last year, a race you and i, frankly, believe she should have won had the balloting and voting systems been fair in georgia. i think we offers a powerful voice and clear vision for where the party and country should be. she has an amazing personal story. so i hope she runs. that being said, i think the challenge will come down to money. there is a lot of money in the democratic ecosystem. can it really support 22, 23 candidates running viable campaigns? it's not just how are you going to run in iowa and new hampshire

but how are you going to get to super tuesday, those become very big, expensive states. you're going to see a winnowing out of the process that's going to start with the june debates. as the fundraising up, some will get out of the race. >> carrie, who do you think will give president trump the most trouble? a stacey abrams, a joe biden? who do you see on the other side as the one you would least like to see go against who you said you're going to vote for? >> personally, joe biden. i will say that -- >> why? >> because i think he has the most crossover appeal particularly with blue collar americans. i will say that, free advice to my democratic friends, 57% to 36% do not want impeachment. the more the hard left, many of these candidates have called for impeachment, hard left movement, that's not what the country wants. >> well, enforcing laws is not hard left. but thank you, carrie sheffield and chris lu.

thank you much for your time. still ahead, a lot of 2020 candidates are talking about criminal justice this week after new cellphone video of a 2015 police stop reopens an old wound. we'll be right back. this is the story of john smith. not this john smith. or this john smith. or any of the other hundreds of john smiths that are humana medicare advantage members. no, it's this john smith. who we paired with a humana team member to help address his own specific health needs. at humana, we take a personal approach to your health, to provide care that's just as unique as you are. no matter what your name is. ♪

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if he would have turned it over, i would have seen it. i'm not seeing that. that video shows he's not in fear for his safety and she's not reaching for anything. it's already in her hand and she's recording him. that's why i'm in disbelief of what i'm seeing. >> criminal justice and policing reform are pushing 2020 conversations with the release of new footage from texas motorist sandra bland's 2015 arrest taken from her cellphone and made public this week by a dallas-area tv news station. the video shows the white arresting officer who claimed that the african-american bland was noncompliant and hostile, repeatedly threatening the 28-year-old woman during a

traffic stop with his taser before demanding she exit her vehicle, at which point the video stops. she was found dead days later in her jail cell, the death controversially ruled a suicide, beaked a flashpoint for the new black lives matter movement. now some of the 2020 contend verers have joined bland's family in calling for further investigation. joining me, an nytd detective and director of the black law enforcement alliance. radley, the fight around police reform, we've seen the tape, now the new tape, of sandra bland. her nypd trial starts on monday with eric garner who was also

videotaped, the videotape on oscar grant. it seems that even with videotapes it is difficult to hold law enforcement accountable. and many of us, i've spent much of my life dealing with issues. much of us are saying that there must be something done about accountability when police go over the line they're not above the law. >> right. well, i think that we can talk about both criminal and civil accountability. i think one of the problems with criminal accountability there are protections built in for police officers through negotiations with police unions. some have a police officers bill of rights that extend above and beyond regular people. then there's a matter of transparency. what we saw in the bland case and in the oscar grant case, years later the incriminating evidence came out after a lot of the important decisions had been made. we need independent investigation above and beyond police organizations themselves.

and we need complete transparency. you know, the nypd recently we just got a lot of the personnel files. we got a lot of personnel files from police officers across the state of california. what we found is that we don't know anything about a lot of the police officers. we have officers that have dozens of infractions, disciplinary infractions and none was reported when they were in a high profile police abuse case. i think if it was, i think we would have seen a lot of different outcomes than in a lot of the cases. >> you know, mark, when i hear the word from radley about transparency, in my activism we call it cover-up. if you have a tape that clearly shows that she's not hostile, that you're not being threatened, to not put that in to evidence and have that as a trial someone knowingly did not put in clear evidence that would have addressed the situation at

hand. >> yeah. absolutely, rev. part of the calls for all forms of criminal justice reform really center around the need for there to be a fuller transparency, you know. people believe it is true that light is the best disinfectant. i think too often the cases that involve law enforcement there's a lack of transparency, a lack of honesty, subverting discovery laws and rules and regulations, et cetera. all to tip the scales of the balance of the scales towards the police officer or law enforcement. and when you do that, what you create is a system where people have less belief in the law enforcement agencies and the agencies themselves and that will result in law enforcement having a more difficult job. you need people who believe in the system, the criminal justice system who believe that everything is on the table.

that there is sufficient transparency and honesty and integrity in this system. >> and good cops also get tainted with this because we're not saying all cops are abusive or wrong. but they must enforce the law even against fellow officers. and when we deal with this, do we need new laws that would require transparency and make it criminal if you engage in hiding any of the evidence that would be relevant to the particular situation we're dealing with? >> right. we need good policy and i think, you know, any new tool is only as good as the policies that you use to implement it. let's look at the lapel cameras. a lot of states the legislators have let the police agencies decide when the video is released to the public. now, that's the opposite of transparency to me. because you can only release those that exonerate the police officers and keep the others secret. we need not only should all of the videos be made public, but

if you're in a case and any sort of a type of litigation where there should have been video and wasn't, this is a policy of the aclu, the judge should instruct the jury that they should assume that that video would have been beneficial to the person who's opposing the police in that case because a lot of times -- a lot of times there should be video and the police officer forgot to turn on the camera or claim that the camera malfunctioned. it's shocking how many times these cameras malfunction at critical points in a lot of these cases. >> it is also very bad law in terms of enforcement. radley balco and mark claxton, thank you for your time. up next, my final thoughts. stay tuned for "saturday night politics" with donnie deutsche at 8:00 p.m. eastern time right here on msnbc. :00 p.m. eastern here on msnbc. about insurance. 'cause let's be honest... nobody likes dealing with insurance. right?

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as i stated at the early part of the show, the -- this week i visited capitol hill where i had a meeting with the speaker of the house of representatives, nancy pelosi. talking about criminal justice and other issues of concern. and when we went to the roundtable to meet with national civil rights leaders, i was honored again to talk to our friend and icon -- iconic civil

rights leader john lewis. what touched me the most as i moved around the hill was leaving a group of youngsters who asked to take a photo with me. i thought about how john lewis had just said he was more pessimistic now about civil rights and voting rights than any time since he was beaten on the edmund pettus bridge in 1965 which led to the march by dr. king that helped set this nation for voting rights. i looked at those kids and thought about we do not have the luxury to drown in pessimism. it should inspire us more toward responsibility of dealing with the issues that we face. because if it was not for john lewis' generation, and those that fought in the early '60s when i was those kids' age, then a lot of the things that i was able to do even though we still

deal with unfairness i would not be able to do. so i cannot not play my part and you cannot play your part because those kids will be looking to us to do for them what was done for us and that's keep moving this nation forward no matter how difficult, no matter how challenging. that does it for me. thanks for watching. see you back here tomorrow at 5:00 p.m. for a new live edition of politics nation. up next, "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace. ♪ o. hi, everyone. 4:00 in new york, it's donald trump's ukraine. the personal attorney, rudy giuliani, who was the very first to defend the president when robert mueller's report revealed