tonight on all in.

>> is the investigation wrapping up sir? >> a special prosecutor siding as a key figure in the trump who talks to the grand jury. new reporting that mark meadows testified on january 6. plus a recently departed trump attorney. then danny goldman! another stunt backfiring. >> this is corruption. did the saudi government essentially purchase american golf? outrage and allegations of sports washing as the pga merges with liv. >> if you are somebody that

believes morality should not be in sports maybe this is a great day for you. a lonely, self consumed self-serving, mirror hogg. they are not a leader. all in starts right now. good evening from new york, one of the people at the center of multiple criminal investigations into donald trump has testified to the special counsel according to the new york times. mark meadows reportedly testified before a federal grand jury, hearing evidence and special counsel jack smith's investigations. sources telling abc news that meadows answered questions on

both his efforts to overturn the 2020 election and trump's alleged mishandling of classified documents. mark meadows is not a secondary character in donald trump's criminal exposure here. he is arguably the central witness. certainly for january 6 but also trumps handling of classified documents. meadows served as one of his representatives to the national archives. the times reports that meadows had some role to discuss return the documents. when it comes to trumps efforts to overthrow the election it was mark meadows that was present at nearly all of the most crucial moments and meetings. meadows handed over multiple messages, discussing plans to overturn the election. this stunning news comes as we

are all on a indictment watch on jack smith's investigation into donald trump's handling of classified documents. i am joined by somebody that has extensively covered the investigation into trump. ohio, there has been talk about this, tonight it appears confirmed that he has in fact talked to the grand jury. how significant is this? >> it is a big deal for several reasons, in addition to what you laid out in the synopsis. what mark meadows turned over to the committee, he said was the stuff that was not covered by executive privilege, what a judge ordered meadows to testify to was stuff he did think was covered by executive

privilege so what he is telling jack's team is things we probably have not heard before. things that are too sensitive to share before and maybe more pertinent to the criminality. this signals that the investigation is nearing the final stages. there is nobody more central to the inner workings of the trump white house. to know that he came in and testified suggests they need to be wrapping up the investigation. >> it is a good point about meadows and the information he furnished the committee. what he handed over was not in the category that you identified , and even with that being said, it was probably the single most important source of

information for the committee. a roadmap to what was going on even though they never got much more than that. >> they fought him in court and held him in contempt of congress for not sharing the additional material. as happy as they were to receive the material they did from him, the committee knew he was sitting on a gold mine of additional relevant information and if they had another year or two they would have fought that further in court. i think what he is sharing with jack smith is on the heels of a judges ruling that no executive privilege does not cover this and therefore what you are withholding from the committee is stuff you need to actually share with federal prosecutors. >> i should read a comment from meadows lawyer, a lawyer for mister meadows said without commenting on whether or not mister meadows has testified before the grand jury, mister meadows has maintained a commitment to tell the truth or he has a legal obligation to do

so. that certainly is indicating that if we are subpoenaed we will talk to them. >> the legal obligation is a reminder that meadows wrote a book about this period of time where he was not under a legal obligation to tell the truth and several examples in the book proved to be untrue like donald trump wanting to go down to the capital during the chaos. there is a potential that he make contradict some of the things he put in the public narrative. >> it also made it a little hard to hide behind executive privilege claims when you have written a book. the meadows news, we were wondering if it was going to happen and it appears to have

happened. that news comes on the heels of two grand juries that are expected to meet this week. there is a grand jury in washington that is expected to break the hiatus this week and then there is a second in miami which is reportedly meeting tomorrow. new york times stating people will hear from at least one new witness. the miami grand jury began hearing from witnesses last month. bloomberg adds a special counsel's office headed subpoenas to multiple witnesses. we do not know what specifically the floor the grand jury is examining. reports state it is a effort to tie up loose ends. the existence of these grand jury investigations, it does not or it does feel more likely that the special counsel will bring charges against the former president.

can we start with the two grand juries which seems a little inscrutable to a lot of people. the timing is odd. what is going on here, we do not know, what is your read on it? >> this could have something to do with a issue we will learn a lot about if trump is indicted. lawyers and prosecutors have to charge cases were crimes were committed. there could be a fluid definition, and if you get it wrong the consequences are drastic. it is entirely possible that prosecutors in the documents case looked at the pattern and said we have some charges that took place in washington dc, aspects of the case that will be charged there, other conducts occurred in florida and there is precedent, there

were charges brought in the district of columbia and virginia, similar sorts of concerns. prosecutors want to make sure any verdict they get can be affirmed on appeal. >> that is illuminating. you think the most likely invested explanation is the venue. i talked to lawyers who said that then you will be a sticking point and trump will want the venue to be in florida. are certain things deemed to be venues in certain places? wherever you retain national defense information, it is a washington crime or is it like the physical place you have it? >> there are unique issues involved you are talking about classified information. there is a strong lean inside of the department to charge those cases in the district of

columbia. it will depend on precise charges and facts and a lot of it is opaque for us but something that may be part of the doj's calculation is the miami florida office, that is what doj calls a extra-large office, one of the biggest if not the biggest office in the country. they are used for dealing with these sorts of complicated issues and of course the u.s. military is located in florida so these people are not novices when it comes to national security issues. >> there is also this nugget that stood out to me. this is talking about the washington grand jury and we would all agree that anything january 6 related would come out of that grand jury. this is among those that appeared before the washington grand jury in the past few months or have been subpoenaed by it are more than 20 members of mister trump's secret service security detail.

what do you make of that? >> i have never had a case where a defendant was under 24 hour surveillance by trained witnesses. every secret service agent is a professional witness in a sense. this is what these guys do for a living. what a rich treasure trove for prosecutors to be able to question all of the people that were on trump's detail about, whether or not he shared any classified information with other people and that has been a sticking point. it appears clear that jack smith proved trump detained the documents, if he shared it that has been opaque to us in the public. the secret service agents probably know the answer. >> there is a lot of questions about meadows.

he has not been in touch with the trump world, trump has asked what is up with meadows, worrying that he was perhaps cooperating. my question is, we do not know. we know he testified, to we have a indication above and beyond that about whether or not he is cooperating? >> we do not but that is something we should take as a encouraging sign. it means that doj is working the way they are supposed to. criminal investigations are being conducted in secrecy and not in the public. when you see a witness that pulls away from the group of people that they are normally associated with, that is often a signal that they are cooperating. cooperation does not happen too often in trump's world and we

have been through this with meadows before where he first cooperated with the january 6 committee and then pulled back. he is represented by a experienced lawyer. a former deputy attorney general and it seems likely that meadows if for no other reason than to save himself can be encouraged to cooperate. >> thank you very much. coming up he represented donald trump and the jack smith investigations. tim is no longer donald trump's attorney. he is here to talk about it all next. (woman) oh. oh! hi there.

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as we await potential indictment on the former president, we have what we believe to be the first ever recorded exchange with the man investigating him. reporter managed to intercept him this morning. you can see the special counsel on the screen holding onto a subway sandwich bag as he walks back to his office. >> hey there mister smith, i am from nbc news. is the indictment coming soon? is the investigation wrapping up sir? anything you would like to say? >> the answer is no.

smith is tightlipped as he should be. we cannot expect any public pronouncements until there is a indictment if there is one. current indications point in that direction. yesterday trump's attorneys met with him himself for two hours and did not get a cert sit down with the attorney general. that meeting irked the ex- president, minutes after it wrapped up trump was willing about the possibility of a indictment on social media. how can the doj possibly charge me who did nothing wrong. new york times even reports that trump expects to face charges. he recently left trump's legal team and he joins me now. you said you would not be surprised if you were not indicted up until now and i wonder if the developments of

the past few days, in particular the meeting with the doj changes how you are thinking about that likelihood? >> obviously i have no idea what happened inside the meeting. i evaluate the case based on what i know to be the fax as opposed to what was just publicly reported so my opinion as a lawyer is that this is something that should not result in charges however, will it result in charges? that is up in the air. a lot of that goes down to what the prosecutors decide to do. >> i have seen previous interviews about this i guess the core question i have, i have been in a civil case where somebody says you have to hold documents for discovery and people take that seriously, these are not national security stuff, just make sure you search your email, i feel like if i did that and then 4 more times, while here is some other

stuff, i would probably be in big trouble for independent on whether or not i get charged, that basic thought pattern is not something you want your client doing in any situation having to do with the providing of documents. >> sure, in retrospect you can take issues with the manner in which the original searches were conducted. one thing i looked at his windy a subpoena first came out and evan asked for additional time, they gave him a little bit but not as much as he asked for and he did the search he did and gave him whatever they found in that period of time. ordinarily what happens is, when i am dealing with the u.s. attorney's office and i say i need more time they will say give us what you can find that date but we want you to keep searching, we recognize this will be a larger thing keep doing it on a rolling basis and

that did not happen here. they gave him a extra week and then they said give us everything you find in the cut it off which was weird. >> there are two parts of it, the timeline is pretty long. the guy leaves in january 2021 and he is not giving over anything except for 15 bucks is almost a year later and then the meeting happens after that, that seems like a long amount of time. >> the time i am specifically talking about is the issuance of the subpoena and the compliance state. everything that happened before that is relevant but it needs to be examined under the presidential records act and what ordinary procedures are on a transition. >> the other thing about this, whether the complaint timeline

is weird or not, the thing that also strikes me, you have 3-4 asks for document, some are asks and some are compulsory. here is a subpoena and each time you do not get all of them and we know that as a matter of fact. the question surrounds the reasoning for that. at one point it is signed by a lawyer and as best we can tell this is everything but then you get a search party fbi with 100 more documents. somebody screwed this up yes? >> the certification that was given at the time was largely a standard form certification saying a search was conducted in here are responsive documents. in retrospect, can you say it would have been smarter to say all documents that were found were attached. in the ordinary course of things, that is what prosecutors

would understand it to be. he did use the standard form for that. had there been a lot more cooperation on both sides, i am not saying anything about him here but definitely in the ordinary course you would have more cooperation and medication not only from the defense but also the doj. relieve the matter that these communications happened did not relate to that. >> basically, this was avoidable if you just hand this over. take a listen. >> based on the facts, people will see this is not a case of the doj conducting a witchhunt. they approached it delicately and this would have gone nowhere if the president just

returned the documents but they jerked him around for a year and a half. >> whether it is criminal or not, jerked him around for a year and a half does feel like the fax, i do not know if that is chargeable but it is a fair description of what went on. >> in a fairly uninformed one unfortunately, we are talking about multiple phases, the initial discussions between the president and the national archives where he has two years to review the documents and they wanted them sooner. a lot of it comes down to the fact that the national archives failed to get a facility in palm beach to store the documents as they have for every other former president. they wanted all of the boxes immediately returned to dc where he would not have access to them to be able to review them as every other president has. you have to separate.

>> the question here is, did i miss the documents? no, i want these documents. those two you can argue in the alternative but those two are logical intention. it is not missing them it is no, i want these documents. it seems like the latter category. thank you for joining us. coming up, as get another indictment looms over donald trump, republicans scramble to jam up any controversy they can to take the heat off. we talk about the latest attempt next. attempt next.

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has trump appears to be approaching his 2nd criminal indictment, his allies are trying to counter with her own scandal about biden. so far they have come up empty which is why they try to craft this mystery about this unverified complaint to the fbi which they claim proves biden and his family took bribes from foreign governments. >> at issue is the 1033 form that a fbi whistleblower made you aware of that talks about actions joe biden may have taken in exchange for money. >> this is unbelievable, this

is corruption on a scale we have never seen in our country. >> this is a document they created aced on what jamie just said, they had a credible source. >> okay so they have this document, a magical document. republicans are planning to vote on thursday to hold the fbi in contempt of congress for refusing to turn over the document. the house oversight committee chair has already seen the document in question which is how we note this controversy that republicans are touting as a scandal is apparently the same tired conspiracy theory that rudy giuliani got trump impeached over in 2020. the one that the trump attorney general determined it was not

worth pursuing. i am joined now. congressman, it is easier in the first few episodes of a series versus the latter ones, pointing to something as nefarious is easier. at this point they got a lot of mileage pointing to this document and there is some bombshell contained within. what do we know about what is in their? >> there is information by a sba fbi source that is credible but no first-hand information. it was provided to the source from somebody else. that relates to the debunked and false allegations about some sort of corruption related

to then vice president joe biden and his son. you will remember because i know you studied it well that the investigation, 17 witnesses, experts, former ambassadors and ukraine experts said what joe biden was doing in ukraine, in urging ukraine to remove the prosecutor general was done consistent with u.s. policy because the prosecutor general was not investigating corruption. what biden was doing would have actually hurt them if it played out. this was garbage and and you do not have to take my word for it. the trump doj as you just said looked into the document and they determined it was not worth pursuing the allegations. this is a nothing burger that they are trying to launder

through official committees of congress once again in order to politically harm president biden. there is nothing here, there is no merit and there is no reason to pursue a contempt of congress charge. >> i thought there was going to be a new it. it is just that stuff again? really? i flabbergasted and i am a little disappointed from a narrative perspective. there was nothing new here. to the point about the doj, correct me if i am wrong, it is not just the trump justice department, it is william. in 2020? >> yes, you will recall early in 2020 because rudy giuliani kept feeding him this information that giuliani was

getting from corrupt ukrainian officials and russian spies, he was giving them to every administration agency he could. so william assigned the district attorney to review the information and decide whether there should be a investigation. he declined to pursue the investigation, that was done before joe biden became president. >> there does seem to be some groundwork being laid on the part of members of congress to go after garland, the current u.s. attorney general. if there are in fact charges against trump. i want to play you something ted cruz said, in the last few days a letter was written to garland and here is what ted cruz had to say about the doj. >> he has corrupted the doj,

the fbi, the machinery of government and they are willing to use it. it is effectively a arm of the dmc. the hypocrisy is massive and mark my words, i believe garland will indict donald trump. he wants to indict him because he hates him. garland is angry that she was not confirmed to the supreme court. >> how will this influence what will happen and how they will use the power if there is a indictment? >> we are seeing it with the contempt motion with the fbi director who complied with the subpoena unlike many of the house republican members in the last congress and what they have been trying to consistently do the last few months is undermine the

credibility of the fbi and doj because they are acting as the taxpayer funded defense attorneys for trump. if they can undermine the credibility of the institutions that may charge trump with a crime, they have a better defense for trump in the court of public opinion. that defense is irrelevant in the court of law and any case the comes down the road but in the court of public opinion they can claim trump is the victim of a mass conspiracy where you have one of the most dignified judges for 20 years that is now a attorney general and has never taken a view on trump and they will spout this bs all over fox news. >> unluckiest guy in the world trump, cannot catch a break. thank you very much. still ahead, how did a saudi backed upstart take over the pga on a tuesday morning? what the deal means for international sports, next. ter

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and last year saudi arabia started a civil war and professional golf. using unbelievable amounts of oil money, they created liv to rival the pga tour and deflect attention from the saudi record on human rights, including the fact that the crown prince ordered the brutal murder of a washington post columnist.

donald trump became one of his biggest promoters and legendary golfers joined, signing on for 200 million. the pga tour took a moral stance against implications of playing for the saudi's and invoked the memory of 9/11. >> you have to be living under a rock to not note there is significant implications. as it relates to the families of 9/11, i have two families close to me that lost loved ones. i would ask any player that has left or any player that would consider leaving, have you ever had to apologize for being a member of the pga tour? >> today after the shocking news that pga is emerging with

liv, a group of families said the following. our entire community has been betrayed, their concern for loved ones was really window dressing, it was never to honor the great game of golf. kevin is the editorial manager of the game of golf website. there is a lot of high dungeon from the pga folks, were you prepared for the announcement that the two would merge? >> not at all, the first thing i would say is i think merge is a slight of hand. i do not think it is a merger, the pga tour welcomed the saudi's as a investor, they will not have a 50-50 stake in all of this, they will not decide what jobs to keep warm eliminate like a normal merger.

nobody saw this coming, golf, it is hard to keep secrets in golf. everybody likes to gossip and all of us were caught blindsided by this including a lot of top players. >> can you give context on liv? it seems weird and out of nowhere. all of a sudden the saudi's are dumping hundreds of millions, there are reports they offered tiger woods 800 million. why? >> if you looked over what has happened in the last decade, the saudi's had this vision 2030 where they wanted to move to kingdom away from oil eventually, that will not happen soon but they did not want to be known as a country dependent on oil forever so they are using a public investment fund that is going

to be worth $1 trillion in not long to spread out the saudi influence which included purchasing newcastle united in the premier league, purchasing debbie debbie e and formula one so they can say we are about more than this. we do not have justice brutal human rights regime that is killingpeople or torturing journalists, we are more than that so golf became a part of that. i would argue, a lot of people say the success of it has been negligible, it has brought more attention to their brutal regime than they would have preferred but really the people that are trying to get to the table are the ceos around the u.s. and europe and china and all of these people that want to take saudi money but felt certainly after that situation they did not want part of that and this

is part of a larger plan to be like, maybe we messed up and we need to figure out a way to get people to think about us differently. >> that is clarifying. you have 1 trillion dollars, put some money in the twitter deal as far as i understand, after they invited a washington post columnist to a consulate in turkey, where he was murdered and dismembered, it got harder to take saudi money. in some ways this is a means to a and, in the golf tour you keep creeping out into normalcy and this is a big step in that trajectory. >> golf is where business gets done around the world. ceos love to golf, they love to make handshake deals and their underlings can work out in the board room. the saudi's but wisely how do we get in on that?

>> monahan was the one we show the clips of earlier, he has a lot of explaining to do. there is a report he was in a heated meeting with the players on the tour, i want to see what his next step is. thank you for sharing your expertise. he was the first major 2016 candidate to drop out and endorse trump, now chris christie is running to stop trump from winning again. the latest from today's announcement, next. announcement, next.

we moved out of the city so our little sophie could appreciate nature. but then he got us t-mobile home internet. i was just trying to improve our signal, so some of the trees had to go. i might've taken it a step too far.

(chainsaw revs) (tree crashes) (chainsaw continues) (daughter screams) let's pretend for a second that you didn't let down your entire family. what would that reality look like? well i guess i would've gotten us xfinity... and we'd have a better view. do you need mulch? what, we have a ton of mulch. there is a approach that a republican candidate can use to stand out, that is attacking the frontrunner. so far that candidates have been delicate, either obliquely criticizing the ex-president or avoiding the topic. tonight chris christie officially joined the ranks. throwing tepid punches at the

frontrunner. >> eight years ago it was amusing. eight years ago you were entertained. i forgive you. it is not funny anymore. it is not entertaining any more. it is the last throes of a bitter and angry man that wants powerback for himself. >> joining me from manchester where the town hall just wrapped up. michelle, how was it? >> reporter: i think it is refreshing to see somebody make a non-apologetic tweet against donald trump. i am not sure what party is christie is running for the

nomination of. there is no path to the nomination without attacking donald trump. chris christie said a lot of things, he is running for it as a old-school rockefeller republican party that i do not think exists anymore. >> if you are going to this kind of event you are probably a politics junkie or a republican primary voter. some of the stuff, it sounded silent when he was going after trump. >> no, this was a anti-trump crowd. i spoke to people that voted for trump in 2020 and he said the last draw for them was january 6 but they said they would write in somebody else like chris christie if trump was the nominee so this was a anti-

trump crowd. when they said he was getting in the race they got to their feet and gave him a standing ovation. he spoke for over two hours. there was definitely moments where he cracked people up. he can be charismatic and grinning but he is in a little bubble that is so far removed from anything i have seen in recent years. >> i will say this, he is described as a good talker. chris christie is a good talker. that is sort of the role. to me the only argument against trump that has legs is outside of that room.

how much did christie talk about that? if i am coaching a republican primary candidate, i do not love or hate him, he lost and he will lose again, do not nominate the guy, that is the entire message. >> he is attacking trump on every front which i love to see. whether republican primary voters love to see it is a different question. he called him the only man in the world that can lose to biden. he did not go after him for his congressional losses, just for his deep corruption as a human being which is a message that resonates a lot with me. whether that resonates with a republican party that still has affection for trump is another

story. >> i want to play a flashback to 2016, this iconic moment in debate, take a listen. >> under chris christie's governorship in new jersey they have been downgraded nine times in the credit rating. let's dispel with the fiction that obama does not know what he is doing. he is trying to change the country. that is what washington dc does, the drive-by shot at the beginning with incomplete information and then the memorized 25 second speech. >> here is the bottom line, this notion that obama does not know what he is doing is -- >> there it is everybody. >> that was a brutal moment. the question everybody is asking is can he get on stage and give that to trump? >> those are different

questions, whether he can even get on the stage. the rnc has certain thresholds, including 40,000 individual donors. if he gets on stage with trump he can mix it up with him. he sounded at one point like alex baldwin doing his saturday night live trump imitation. it is a trump moved to go after the family even though it is justified in this case. it would be great to see him on stage with trump. >> tonight. that is "all in" on this tuesday night. alex wagner tonight starts right now. good evening, alex. >> good evening, chris. you have to think is it 40,000 unique donors or probably 40,000 democrats that would