is unprecedented in the civil -- not civil rights, the lgbtq rights,. it is civil rights. so it's a state of emergency. the most disappointing part is that we know that this is the playbook. you take -- an extreme example, and you try to use that and ride that to oppress a whole group of people. ronald reagan did it by finding of a welfare queen. he says this is all the people, we need to deal with this in this way. bush did it with billy horton -- we see it again with trans people in america. >> thus, your editorial. thank you so much, charles, for that. that does it for me on this edition. i'll see you tomorrow at one pm eastern. yasmin fussy again contenders the coverage. yasmin fussy again contender the coverage

hey everybody, good afternoon. i'm yasmin vossoughian. donald trump is in for the fight of his life. the former president faces a tuesday arraignment on 37 criminal counts, involving his refusal to turn over classified documents that never should have been in his possession. this hour, he's gonna be taking his defense public within appearance in georgia. as his gop political rivals tiptoe around the story. in addition to the politics of, this we are going to dive deeply into the substance of the allegations in the indictment. it is a treasure trove of damning material from photos that showed documents being hoarded and bedrooms, bathrooms, and even the mar-a-lago ballroom. conversations where trump himself waves around top secret material as well as evidence, in which he apparently tries to get his own lawyers to lie to the feds. looking for the documents. we will get into all of this coming up. we begin with the new information that we're learning

with the unsealing of the historic and stunning criminal a night meant of -- 49 pages reveal 24 hours, go shows the donald trump faces 37 felony counts, including 31 counts under the espionage act of quote unquote, willful retention of classified. records his former aide, walt nada, also indicted as an alleged coconspirator. both are expected to appear in federal court on tuesday. joining me now is former trial attorney and case -- host of the katie phang show, katie phang. we're looking at 37 counts here, katie. no dissemination charge in this indictment. if you will, there is a lot of stuff that stands out amongst those counts. what stood out to you first and foremost as you read through this? >> so, i was really stunned by the level of substantive evidence that special counsel, jack smith, has in his arsenal to be able to prosecute former president, donald trump.

when you are building a case normally as a prosecutor, yasmin, you've got direct or circumstantial evidence. sometimes the most you get is circumstantial evidence. you have to basically tell the y to infer from what you have to be able to build a case. it is an overwhelming amount, however, of direct evidence of trump's guilt in this case. you already mentioned in the setup for this segment, you've got trump's own words on audiotape, you have his lawyers, copious, his details notes memorializing the attempts by donald trump to try to obstruct an investigation by the federal government. you also have text messages as well, and obviously surveillance video as you could see, in the indictment, there is a date and time stamps that speak to actions taken by the codefendant, coconspirator, walt nada. we heard a lot of us that knew that walt -- was jack smith -- after he was appointed by merrick garland to do. so we did not know the depth of. it now that we've, seen it is

stunning. 37 felony counts is nothing to steer, at yasmin. it causes a lot of potential exposure for donald trump. exposure meaning decades of federal prison, for a man who's in his 70s, at this point in time, he's got his arraignment on tuesday, entering a plea of not, guilty and then built the games began. you can expect a lot of motions to be, filed a flurry of the defense attorneys to see whether or not he can stop this case from proceeding just beyond the arraignment stage. >> let's take a step back and we, can katie, for a moment. let's look at tuesday. because i was on the ground as he was arraigned here in manhattan. for the hush money payments, there was when no mugshot, there was no handcuffing, as well. the former president showed, up the whole process took about 90 minutes or so. and then he left. as we are looking ahead to tuesday, what are the expectations for that arraignment? i believe it happened around three pm. >> well, we say that no one is

above the law and donald trump should be treated like any other criminal defendant would be treated. but let's be, honest the reality, is no other criminal defendant in the current criminal justice system at the state or federal level has a secret service detail for life. and so the presence of security like the secret service is going to change the way this arraignment will take place. it will not change, yasmin, what happens in court. he will be read the charges. he will enter a plea of guilty or not guilty. clearly none of us are expecting donald trump to plead guilty on tuesday. upon the reading of the charges in that indictment, he will then be dealt with, just like any other criminal defendant would be dealt. with but, no we're not, gonna see a mugshot. we don't see much, shots in federal cases, we are also not good to see the actual process of him being fingerprinted. my understanding is he won't be fingerprinted with the traditional ink on paper with his fingers, it's going to be done electronically. but it will be a process. it will be one of several other defendants that are being arraigned on tuesday. the criminal court behind me,

yasmin, it is a puzzling place of business. there are other cases, criminal and supple, that will be taking place on tuesday. other clients, parties, lawyers, they're all gonna be coming in and out of that courthouse. but obviously all eyes will be on donald trump on tuesday afternoon at three pm. >> talk to me about the appointment of judge aileen cannon. we know her quite well. she is a trump appointee. and she has ruled in favor of the former president before. what we have heard when it comes to assignments like this one is they are assigned at random. we, however she has been assigned to this case. do you think jack smith is going to challenge this? we >> so, you are right. there is a random assignment. and yasmin, there's a whole lot of conspiracy theories out there saying how are the chances at her, who screwed it up so badly on the special master, appointment when the whole search warrant issue was

starting to evolve in this criminal case, how is it possible that she would get this case? but listen, just being a trump appointee alone is not grounds for a recusal, will jack smith roll the dice and wait for her to actually do something to indicate that she is having some type of preference to favor donald trump? that is left to be seen. is there a case that exists in particular industries to actions that will allow the department of justice to seek a recusal? absolutely. aileen cannon has had a particularly bad run with the 11th circuit court of appeal so far. she's been reverse, she's been told, you've made some very clear moves on your part that look like they favor the defendant, donald trump. that in and of itself could be grounds for the department of justice to move for recusal. the fact that she is a trump appointee alone is not. the fact that she has been involved in this case, is not as well. >> let's talk about the trump legal. team trump announcing a new legal team for this, case a day after he was indicted. his top lawyers, jim trusty, drunk rally, are now out. ex manafort lawyer tom blanche is.

and what do you make of this? >> it doesn't make sense, yasmin. you've got riley, and you've got jim trusty. who have been leading the charge in the defense, they basically -- they've been interacting with the federal government and investigators. literally, within 24, hours when the announcement of an indictment is imminent, they resign. now, you and i both know there could be things going on behind the scenes. we know tim, just a few weeks ago, it resigned because he was not getting along with epstein who was the, quote in-house counsel for donald. trump let's see what tom blanched can. do the problem with tom blanche, number, one he has a deal with donald trump. number two, he's not a national security attorney. there's big challenges for top blanche, among the two i just listed, yasmin, the worst thing for todd blanche is dealing with donald trump. >> katie phang, thank, you good to talk to you. the former president is set to deliver his public remarks, his first public remarks since this indictment in just a short time. he will speak at the georgia republican party state convention. it will be the first time the public gets to hear from donald trump since the indictment was

unsealed. we all learned the details included in it. trump will be speaking to a friendly audience at the georgia gop. it's one of the two offense he has. today he will also speak with the north carolina republican party later on in the day. we are going to be monitoring the presidents remarks today and bring you anything newsworthy when it comes to the indictment. other news to share, the man known as the unabomber, ted kaczynski, was found dead in his prison cell this morning. that is according to a federal bureau of prisons spokesperson. he created 16 deadly homemade bombs that he sent through the mail, killing three and injuring 24. his attacks began in 1978, i went on for almost two decades before he was captured. a cause of death has not been announced. he was 81, we will have more on this breaking story ahead as well. we are gonna be covering the latest developments in trump's federal indictment through the next two hours. in just 60, seconds the reaction from trump's fellow republicans on capitol hill as, the details of the indictment

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cashback like a pro with chase freedom unlimited. how do you cash back? new reaction today from congressional republicans with donald trump to 72 hours away from his criminal arraignment. julie tsirkin is on capitol hill. we've been watching capitol hill pretty closely amidst all of this, especially the republican reaction to the former presidents indictment. some coming out, especially senator mitt romney they're saying, essentially, the former president needs to step aside when it comes to running for president of the united states, considering of course this indictment and for 37 counts now that we've all been reading through over the past 24 hours. what more are we hearing from there? >> look, the list of republicans in mitt romney's coin corner, joining what mitt romney is saying, is very small. in fact, this morning we heard from senator mike braun who's

been critical of the former president before. he released a statement sort of a toeing the line. if you could put it up the screen here, we can put up a portion for you he said, quote, it is unacceptable that sensitive information, which could undermine our national strategy and security, has been treated so carelessly by current and former members of the executive branch. at the same time, he says the burden of proof is on the doj. he says what this indictment could mean for years to come at a time when americans are already distrusting of institutions. he faces that concern there. all in all, we do have not seen this level of republicans joining mitt romney as we have in the past perhaps. instead, this is more closely resembling what we saw after the former presidents first indictment several weeks ago. here's what speaker mccarthy had to say this morning on the flip side of a pre-taped video he posted on twitter, standing with republicans that are in the former presidents corner here. watch. >> this judgment is wrong by this doj. they treated president trump

differently than the treat others. it didn't have to be this way. this is going to disrupt this nation, because it goes to the core of equal justice for all, which is not being seen today. >> so, quickly here, yasmin, we have these groups of republicans emerging. we have the bitter group of speaker mccarthy's corner, who are most house republicans are and leadership certainly are. saying this is been a weaponization of the government against the former president, blaming president joe biden for this. he was somehow involved, although special counsel was, of course, a appointed for this. we have another faction of republicans, who are not actually saying anything. that senate leadership led by minority leader mcconnell who had been noticeably silent on this, as he has been during the first indictment. i presume how it will stay for the next coming days. >> can i ask you the timing on mccarthy's release of his latest statement with regards to that indictment? was that before or after the indictments actually unsealed. >> so, that video was actually

appeared to be pre-filmed, and mccarthy had shared a part of that video through a fox news digital article before the indictment was unsealed. he then posted a video that you saw on your screen. this morning to his twitter account. it all appeared pre-recorded, yasmin. again, he actually joined in what chairman jordan had to say of the weaponization committee and sending that letter to attorney general merrick garland. saying that it's on merrick garland, on the attorney general, to prove to americans and explain why they took these steps merrick garland has not reply to that letter. it is very interesting, you're right, the timing of that video and when was filmed. >> i'm wondering if kevin mccarthy has had the opportunity to read all 49 pages of that indictment, a special counsel jack smith has urged the nation has juice to do so. julie tsirkin, thank you for now. still ahead everybody, the case is trump appointed judge, how someone that appears to favor the former president was handed one of the biggest cases in our country's history. and the impact this could have on it. up next, the key evidence.

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government documents, not only from the federal investigators, but his own lawyers as well. on at least two occasions, showing classified documents to others. joining me now is msnbc legal analyst -- i gotta say, i was reading yesterday, 49 pages of this, it's stunning the narrative that jack smith built. it's a real story here. it shows the case in which they will present to the jury in florida eventually. what do you make of what you see in here? the case they have built so far? >> keep in mind, that story that you're talking about is not required for a federal indictment. this entire indictment could've been handled in eight or nine pages. in most one of the mill cages that you never hear about, indictments are handled that way. that is a message, a message from the special counsel's office. and doj. they want the public to understand what happened.

some of these statutes are not intuitive. they're complicated. they understand that. they write out a factual narrative. believe me, for every numbered paragraph they must believe that they have the goods. the other piece of evidence, the tape, or the witness, able to back that up. or else it would not be in that indictment. that is quite a hill to climb to build up a narrative like that, over that number of pages, and have it be something factually that every member of that team is willing to stand behind. because they can believe they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. >> what do you think with some of the most damning stuff in this indictment? when i was reading through it, something that stood out to me was, the direction he gave to walt niota. he essentially asked him, walt nauta, to move these boxes before attorney one, who we believe is evan corcoran, went to take those 38 classified

documents to hand of the justice department after receiving that subpoena. how damage is that moment laid out here by jack smith? >> this may be personal to me, i think the deception worked against his own attorney's really struck me. in a way, it did vindicate them. that concerned me. >> vindicated his attorneys? >> his attorneys, yes. from all accounts in the indictment, they were trying to look for documents, according to the indictment, it was trump who kept moving them around and deceiving his own attorneys, and allegedly causing them to execute documents, the statements, to doj saying, we've looked and we found everything. for me personally, i think for lawyers everywhere, that was a spark of good news. for me, the most interesting character yesterday was not trump. it was walt nauta for a number of reasons. >> why? >> number one, he fills out the conspiracy. it begs the question of all the people in trump land, why is their only one coconspirator?

i think for one reason, everybody else, doj may have contacted. raced into tell doj their story because they did not want to get caught up in this. certainly, you can see from the indictment. a lot of other people involved. not involve necessarily criminality. this was a group of people involved in moving documents. and sending messages around. the big question is, what is the objective in indicting walt nauta? do they believe if he's not willing to cooperate now, reportedly, there were discussions of him cooperating before, he declined. going forward, that doesn't mean he might not change his mind. is this someone doj is very interested in? >> does he have incentive to change his mind? >> the same incentives every cooperating witness with the state prosecutor, since time immemorial, i am now feeling very alone. i am caught up in this. i was just following orders. what can i do to lessen my exposure. and get a present fast. >> this is a minute according

to these documents, who lied to his interrogator with the department justice when asked if he knew about the location of these boxes before they were loaded on to that truck to be sent back out. >> that's right. exactly. right there, that's the kind of thing that a cooperating witness, cooperating witnesses often have much more criminality than even what you are describing. and these are usually people lower on the chain of command. who are now, that they are really facing the consequences, realizing that this may result in a prison term. most federal charges, including these, will at least come at the recommended sentencing guideline, that includes incarceration. now, once life gets real for walt now to. will he make it overture to doj to say, hey, maybe no interest in cooperating. if he was that close, if he was trump's body man, if he's the guy that when that guy that diet cokes for donald trump. he probably knows a lot. where was the case that special counsel thinks he could be the nail in the coffin, if, if as this case drags on, he has a change of mind.

if his loyalties change. maybe even sees that, my chance at a pardon is going away. if donald trump is going down in the polls. maybe now is the time for me to talk to doj. >> it's likely they didn't even know the type of evidence that the department justice has before this indictment was unsealed. >> correct. doj, even before they knew what they knew personally, doj is not going to keep them in the loop as they're conducting their investigation. that's not something doj just. that's one of the reasons they're so devastatingly effective, they operate in supersecret, leaving us to guess at the tee leaves as to where they are in the process. >> we're gonna have a lot more as we talk about the defense, that's gonna be mounted by the trump team. the other thing that i found was really interesting through this indictment, the public statements made by the former president. especially in lead up to his election in 2016, specifically about democratic candidate for president hillary clinton. when you set on august 18th, 2016, in my administration i'm

going to enforce all laws concerning the protection of classified information. no one will be above the law, september 60 said we also need to fight this battle by collecting intelligence, and then protecting our classified secrets. we cannot have someone in the oval office who does not understand the meaning of the word confidential or classified. did you find that is damning as i did? >> yes, for a couple of reasons. the reasons it in there, they want to the government wants to show that trump had knowledge. he's not just an ignorant person who knows nothing about national security. were those speeches that he gave reading a proffer that someone else wrote for him, who knows. maybe that will even come out in the defense. it really was twofold, in my mind. number one, to show that as far back as 2016, donald trump was aware that national security was a thing, and that there were such a thing as a secret documents. also, the unintended benefit is probably that it makes donald trump look ridiculous, and that he was accusing other people of

doing something he is now literally indicted for. this is the kind of evidence that doj loves. it is probitive of effect, but it paints the defendant a not-so-great alight. >> it's important to note, hillary clinton then, none of which she had had classified markings on it, we now know, after a year of investigation, they found that she was not culpable. >> yes. >> but more than that, hillary clinton and others, and what this indictment goes through great pains to make a point about, it's not about making the documents. that could be inadvertent. it's the refusal to give them back. the resistance, the deception, the concealment. that's what this indictment is not about. arguably, this case never would've gotten to doj until it got to doj. what i mean by that, there is a period of time when the national archives was involved. not doj. they were saying, hey, we think of some of our documents. this back and forth is going

on. only when nothing was going on didn't go to doj. these are things that could have been averted. i think that's the message of this indictment. what people will engage in whataboutism, and i think that's fair to have a discussion about that, i think of the point route turn, as expressed in this indictment, is not possessing the documents. it is what happened once possession was established. this concealment, the hiding, the moving around, the deceiving one's own lawyers and government agents. >> you're gonna show us our defense chops in the next hour. >> the toughest critic. >> i will have my a game, or might begin. >> i'm getting a stern wrap it up from an executive producer, coming up, didn't i'll talk to again soon. refusing to criticize the rival. >> an indictment against a former president i think is gonna be extraordinarily divisive. a very challenging time for american families. i also believe it sends a terrible message to the wider world. >> can republicans running for

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stay to take the stage for his

first public appearance since this first indictment. the former president addressing the gop convention in georgia before heading to speak at north carolina's own convention just a few hours later. nbc's garrett -- is on the ground for us in columbus, georgia. good to talk to you. what are the expectations today in hearing from the former president on this indictment? >> he has been, i expect to hear a lot of red meat here for a very trump friendly crowd. about 2000 delegates here to the georgia state republican party. walk around the room a little bit, it maggots, pro trump folks. basically, as far as the eye can see. what we can expect to see from the former president, what we often see in moments like this. for his political team to try and put some policy scaffolding around what has been a stream of conscious response thus far. basically, if you look at trump's troop social post over the last couple of days, you hear him talk about jack smith as a maniac. unfettered wild prosecutor going after him. you heard him attacks myths

wife by name it directly, same for merrick garland at the department of justice. watch for the speech to have a lot of that same anger and frustration, dressed up with more policy prescriptions about how he would try to, in their words, the politicized the department of justice and prosecutions going forward. make no mistake, he has been. the indictment yesterday, or thursday night i suppose. when he found out about it. we'll be a major focus, not just of the speech, but of mr. trump's campaign going forward. >> all right, -- we're gonna keep our eyes from the speeches in this former president gets i'm going. we're not gonna bring that to folks live though. do tempest on the virtual shoulder when and if he addresses that indictment. which i'm sure, of course he, will. i want to bring in now msnbc political analyst and republican straight -- along with daniel moody the -- democracy-ish podcast as well. i was just looking through jack smith statement from yesterday, he delivered after this indictment was unsealed, daniel. at one point urges everyone,

invites everyone, i should say, to read in full, as he says to understand the scope and the gravity of the crimes charged. at one point he goes on to say, it's very important me to note, the depart the -- defendants in this case must be presumed innocent until the guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law, to that, and my office will seek a speedy trial in this matter, consistent with the public interest in the right of the accused. we very much look forward to presenting our case to a jury of citizens in the southern district of florida. we know the former president is gonna mount a very heavy case against about both the department just of justice, as he's already started attacking them along with many of them gop colleagues. how dangerous is that? what do you make of this statement from the special counsel, essentially saying to americans, read it? so what's inside this thing. do you think that would move the needle for the trump devotees? >> no, i think for the 30% of americans who are going to believe anything that donald trump says, they're gonna stand by him regardless of what is inside of this document. and their belief, the department of justice is

corrupt. it's corrupt for no other reason than they've decided to make sure that every american citizen is held to the same standards and the same law. what donald trump is doing is akin to what he doing during the stop the steal rally. signaling to his base, this is my enemy. you need to go after my enemies on my behalf. we saw them decide to storm the capitol building because of his direction. right now, i think our country is in a tinderbox moment. it's going to be up to democrats, the president of the united states, even though doesn't want to address this directly, to call for some type of simmering. that's what jack smith was alluding to, when he said read this. if it were a d behind the name, a democrat that did this, believe you me, there will be more than the then benghazi. more than everything we ever seen republicans to. they had four years to try and find something on hillary clinton. they didn't. >> the former president, his

team, they have been defiant, per usual. they've been selling merch on this thing, fundraising off this thing, over and over again. the washington post reporting this, the unsealing of the actual indictment. especially the reaction after this, unsealing the reaction before. then the 49-page indictment. we all read through it. word for word. rattled some of his advisers, who are not aware of the granular evidence obtained by the justice department, according to people familiar with with the matter. typical said the evidence was more damning than they expected, and could have been avoided if trump would have just listened to his lawyers. advisors you think, listen -- you guys laugh about listening to the lawyers in the advisers, you think about that very moment in this indictment. in which he directs walt nauta to go get those boxes before corcoran picks up those 35 classified documents to head over to the justice department. had he not done that, he would likely not be in this position right now. despite the fact that he had taken those classified document in the first place, he should

not have. >> it's amazing. what's important, as we go forward and listen to trump this afternoon in the days to come, donald trump treats every legal like a pr problem in a fund raising opportunity. that's what he's gonna continue to do. he's gonna rile up his base. he sees it work. he may even thrown a nickname for jack smith for all we know. he's just gonna do what he usually does. what's so amazing about that indictment, first of all, i'm not an attorney. i really followed it, quite easily. it was there to be digested by regular people. >> it's funny, we've all read a lot of indictments by now. more indictments that i ever thought i'd read in my lifetime, even as a journalist, this was a very readable document. you could follow it quite easily, and not have gone to law school. >> but like an episode of scandal. >> that's how easy it was. >> what's interesting, when you think that indictment, you followed up with jack smith's words about read it. everyone should be held

accountable, but deserve a fair trial, and must be found guilty be beyond a reasonable doubt, he's basically saying this indictment gives you beyond a reasonable doubt. it is so clear, when you follow the conversations with his attorneys, with his aides, when you see the pictures it's not enough to turn the dial an any republican primary for donald trump. but it's enough, i think, to have donald trump a little concerned. even though he won't show it. >> but, ron desantis isn't even coming up. is anyone using this moment to get ahead of the former president. what we also will know, there are many folks out there that could read this and just say it's all lies. >> because they do not trust the department of justice. they do not trust special counsel jack smith. they do not trust the system. because of what they have been told. by the former president in the united states and what they continue to hear from him. >> what makes me so concerned about this is, i guess, group of republican candidates for president, none of them are willing to take on donald trump

except for chris christie. >> asa hutchison. >> let me stop you there, i want to read for folks what desantis is and, then i hear more of what you said. here's what desantis said about the about the indictment. the weaponization of federal law enforcement represents a mortal threat to a free society. we have four years witnessed and an application of the law, depending upon political affiliation. and then he also said this last night in north carolina, let's play it. and then daniel, i want to hear from you. okay, we don't have that statement he said last night. in north carolina. but, here's what he said, let me read for you. when i was in congress, i remember hillary had the emails with the classified, and my view was, she, as a naval officer, if i would've taken classified to my apartment i would've been court marshaled in a new york minute. yet, they seem to not care about that. is there a different standard for a democrat, secretary of state versus a former

republican president? again, making that comparison to hillary clinton, which we fold on the. she was investigated for a year. there was no highly classified documents in any of the information exchange on a front private server. there was a couple different situation. >> reality doesn't matter to them, neither do the fact. the reality is, donald trump was in charge of the department of justice, alongside william barr, william barr now for four years, but for four years, donald trump wielded the power. if hillary clinton had done even a quarter of the things that donald trump is being charged with he would have the power to have -- we need to have an investigation, we need to find the evidence, and she would've been indicted like anyone else. the reality is, these are not the same things. look at that bathroom. where the documents were found. look at that stage. this is absolutely ridiculous. in his own words, donald trump says, this is secret. back away from it. don't be close.

>> this is awesome whatever mission. >> just add to your point about the president being charge of the partner justice, they also had a republican house and senate. >> they had everything. >> every opportunity to go after those emails. >> let me read for folks to -- for what nikki haley tweeted, this is not how justice should be pursued in our country. the american people exhausted by the prosecutorial overreach, double standard and vendetta politics. it's time to move on the endless tremendous directions. half of that statement could be said about former president trump, what he's allegedly done. all this classified material. this would be a real moment for these individuals to step out. >> nikki haley wants to be vice president, she doesn't want to turn off the base. just in case donald trump doesn't, but she's still a viable vice president pick. >> that's all she's demonstrated. she showed no leadership, i can say say the same about many of the other candidates. she specifically all about vp. >> thank you both, great to see you.

coming up, are more federal judges on the way? judiciary committee and former january 6th committee members of lofgren -- tells me filby had accountable for when the capitol attack? how the trump appointed judge could have major implications on the federal indictment, we'll be right back. right back. these suits are here to make sure that anything that i say is legally indisputable. like... apartments.com has the widest variety of variety. apartments.com was the reason that apartments were invented. heck! we got more spaces than space! that's entirely incalculable. incalculable... oh, i think that's legalese for... for true. [laughing] apartments.com the place to find a place. trelegy for copd.

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must be presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, in a court of law. to that end, my office will seek a speedy trial in this matter. consistent with the public interest in the rights of the accused. we very much look forward to presenting our case to a jury of citizens in the southern district of florida. >> so, when you hear special counsel jack smith pushing for a speedy trial for jon donald trump and, that means it could take 60 days or less. that's one of the many decisions that, for now, rests largely with a trump appointed judge assigned to this case. the fact that it's judge aileen cannon is raising some questions, it appears court, which itself includes two trump appointees throughout last year to appoint a special master to review the seized mar-a-lago records. with me now charlie savage, washington correspondent for the new york times. thanks for joining us.

i want to read folks some of what you wrote in the times about the appointment of judge cannon. the chief clerk for the southern district of florida has said that new cases there are randomly delegated to its judges even if the related to previous ones. it was not immediately clear whether mr. trump looked out or if an exception was made. either way, legal specialist said judge cannon's return was significant. talk to me more about how significant her assignment is to the case? and the possibilities of how it could complicate it or length in the time in which it takes to go to trial? >> sure, let me preface this by saying, i've seen a number of people on tv and on twitter saying she has the case for now. she was initially assigned. we'll see if she keeps it. i don't know where that's coming from. she has this case. there's no rule in the federal system that some judge gets a case for initially for arraignment and then goes back

and his randomness nine for trial. i think what happened was, when they started to leak out on friday morning, journalists weren't quite sure what they were looking at. they kind of hedge their bets they were just hearing it, probably from trump lawyers or something. and we're sure if it was real or not. now that the indictment is unsealed, we see her name stamped on it, that's overtaken by events. that hesitation has been left with a lingering this court distortion in the discourse. unless this is the judge in this case unless she steps the site. how could she delay the case? a number of ways. there could be a lot of pretrial fights over evidence in this case. i'm sure the trump team will try to suppress all the evidence that the prosecutors obtained for the grand jury by overcoming attorney client privilege. that doesn't mean that that's not fair game to re-litigate. that was only a decision by a judge in washington, about what a grand jury could see. she is not down by that decision about what a trial jury could see.

there's gonna be a big fight over, that that's a lot of this evidence. a huge and lengthy fight, there's no way this is coming in 60 days. even before any judge. there's gonna be a huge fight over the 31 classified documents. but jack smith wants to introduce as support for the 31 espionage act charges. i anticipate that he will ask to substitute a non classified thing for the actual classified documents. so he doesn't have to expose it in court or show it to jurors who don't have security clearances. a whole series of pretrial hearings which will play out behind closed doors with sealed filings over each of those documents. trump's team will say, no, we have to see the actual thing in court for me to get a fair trial. she can take a long time, working through that. potentially, suppress -- she will suppress that evidence, but if she rules that checks with can't have a substitution, maybe she'll decide to drop the charge that particular document was based on, rather than risk exposing.

a third way, the trump legal team is going to, they already telegraphed this, accused jack smith and his team of prosecutorial misconduct. every criminal defendant does. the you remain for the witness, you threaten the witness. most judges, this kind of brush it off, they look at it, they move on. -- perhaps judge cannon wants to entertain that more differentially. she could bet for the prosecutors on trial in the pre-trial process before we get to any of the rest of the stuff. there's many, many ways in which trump would like to delay this trial, until after the election. and she wants to play along, shall have plenty of opportunity to. >> is there any means or argument to be made that the justice department object smith would pursue recusal of judge cannon here? could he pursue recusal of djokovic cannon here at all? any precedent for this? >> yeah, you get one of the means available to other party, if they think the judge

assigned the case is problematic for some reason, is to file a motion to recuse, ask the judge to recuse. if the judge says no, they can appeal that to the appeals court. i'm not sure, that's pretty risky. you come out the king, you must not misses the saying. i'm not with the bases for that would be here. she was appointed by trump, judges don't want to say they're supposed to recuse with a better affecting the president that appointed them as before them. to trump or appointees overruled her before. three trump appointees on the supreme court ruling on his cases. also a lot of the circuit rule that she was wrong on the law. she understood that jurisdiction works in that special master litigation. that doesn't mean that she's tainted in some way that would make her legally unworthy to shape this case, she would reply to people in conventional discourse think that she is displayed bias towards trump. that's not the same thing as

something a court would recognize as a basis. i would be surprised if jack smith filed a motion to recuse. it is a built by him if he wants to try. >> charlie savage, we thank you for your reporting on this. coming up, everybody, at the top of the hour, donald trump will be back in a courtroom to hear federal charges against him. this time, in florida. with the location of the case means for both sides. and what we can expect on tuesday. when he makes his appearance. we'll be right back. ...designed smarter. like a smart coffee grinder - that orders fresh beans for you. oh, genius! for more breakthroughs like that... ...i need a breakthrough card... like ours! with 2.5% cash back on purchases of $5,000 or more... plus unlimited 2% cash back on all other purchases! and with greater spending potential, sam can keep making smart ideas... ...a brilliant reality! the ink business premier card from chase for business. make more of what's yours.

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i'm yasmin vossoughian, we're gonna be back some breaking news, right now the former president is appearing at the state -- in georgia. appearing at the first public comment since the indictment came down. we are listening in, we'll bring you any news as it happens. i will go right now to nbc -- 's in columbus georgia following it all. garrett, i know that the former president speaking behind me there we've gotten some excerpts of what exactly the former president is saying in his speech, if you can take us through some of the? >> yasmin, former president just took the stage a little while ago. as expected, his speech is gonna be fairly wide ranging. he's gonna address the indictment from this week. although, in a more oblique way than he has done on his social media accounts, at least that's the plan. the speech has written includes