so much. susan and alencia johnson, susan del percio, good stuff, ladies. that's going to do it for us today. i'm reporting from new york. thank you for being with me. ana cabrera here. jose diaz-balart picks up the coverage right now. good morning. it is 11:00 a.m. eastern, 8:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart, breaking news from delaware where president biden's son hunter is appearing in a federal courtroom at this hour. just moments ago, hunter biden told a federal judge he intends to plead guilty to misdemeanor counts of failing to pay his taxes, also faces a separate felony gun possession charge. could be dismissed if he completes a pretrial diversion program. this is the first time the justice department, in which falls under the executive branch, has brought charges against the child of a sitting president. with us to start off our coverage this hour, nbc news correspondent mike memoli, he is in wilmington, delaware. michael schmidt, "new york times" washington correspondent

and msnbc contributor who has extensively covered the hunter biden case and barbara mcquaid, former u.s. attorney who is now a professor at the university of michigan law school, also an msnbc legal analyst. so, mike memoli, bring us up to speed on what is happening as of right now. >> reporter: well, jose, this proceeding is now been under way just shy of an hour. the judge proceeding over this courtroom at 10:03 p.m. and where it appears to be on the latest information handed to me a moment ago, they're now going through the particulars, the prosecutors are detailing some of the aspects of hunter biden's personal finances that led to two of the charges that he's agreeing to plead guilty to today involving the failure to pay federal taxes. the two biggest headlines, the two potential wild cards that could have made what would be a routine hearing more complicated. the judge appears to agree with the prosecutors in terms of the plea agreement itself, that the

charges are appropriate and that more importantly the probation, the terms of hunter biden's agreeing to plead guilty are appropriate. she spoke and posed a number of questions to hunter biden who swore under oath in response to the questions that he has not partaken in drug or alcohol abuse since 2019. the other complication potentially was this filing made by a group of house republicans who are believing here that there is an abuse of justice here, that he should be seeing some more severe charges. the judge asked both the prosecutors and the defense attorneys that she was aware of this filing and she asked them should more serious charges be brought in this case, and both the prosecutors and the defense said that they did not believe so. so, that appears to cut off what would have been a complication in today's proceedings. otherwise, this appears to be going rather routinely. and more significantly, will come i think afterwards when we have a chance to potentially hear from hunter biden himself after the processing is over.

>> and so, michael schmidt, there was some drama surrounding that last minute court filing from a republican lawmaker that mike memoli is talking about. what is that all about? >> so, basically the chairman of the house ways and means committee tried to file this amicus brief, this friend of the court brief, with the judge that laid out a lot of the allegations made by the whistle-blower to essentially try and get them on the record and before the judge as the judge was going to be making the decision about whether to accept this plea agreement. there was a fight back and forth between hunter biden's lawyers and the lawyers for the chairman of the ways and means committee about whether they could simply just throw this information on the docket. the judge sealed it, but in the process there was another back and forth fight about whether

someone from the biden legal side had misrepresented themselves, just a giant mess. but at the end of the day, the republicans were trying to intercede, trying to influence this proceeding and trying to get the judge to raise these issues. now, as has been reported, the judge this morning asked the defense lawyers and the prosecutors whether in light of this there is anything more that, you know, should be given out here, or looked at differently and both sides said no. >> so, barbara, i mean, this is so unusual and so many different levels. but the amicus brief being introduced, the moment the hearing is going on, how unusual is this and is there any kind of history to show that this kind of stuff works? >> it is not only unusual, jose,

it is improper. the executive branch has the sole power to bring criminal prosecutions, and so legislators to get involved in trying to influence a plea hearing is outside the separation of powers. if i were the judge in this case, i would have simply said butt out. but instead she is wiser, there is a reason she's a judge and i'm not, instead i think she appropriately put on the record, is there any reason i should consider this or not go forward today? any more charges should be filed? and the government said no. and she accepted that because that's their job, that's their role. and so, as she appropriately moved on, and one thing that is really important here is that she will become aware of all related information in this case. there is something known as relevant conduct that a judge considers in imposing a sentence. in the time between the plea hearing, and the sentencing, which is usually about three will receive all of the discovery information, so she has access to that information when she assesses her sentence. so this idea that only the

legislators tell her what's going on, she'll be completely in the dark, it is just nonsense. >> and, barbara, talk to us about that process between the plea hearing and the sentencing. is it, again, i'm in no way an expert on legal matters, that's why i'm so glad i get a chance to speak with you, is an agreement an agreement so that there is no question on sentencing? >> well, yes, but a judge can reject it. typically what happens at a plea hearing is the judge accepts the guilty plea, which is an admission of guilt, where someone says i am pleading guilty, but defers the decision about accepting the plea agreement, the document, the contract, until later, until after she had a chance to review all of that information. so, immediately after this hearing, the probation department will interview hunter biden, find out all about him and the prosecution will share all of its evidence with the probation department. they will then put together an

extensive presentence report for the judge to be used at sentencing and at that time, she could say, wow, i found some things that disturb me here, i'm going to reject this plea agreement and you can either withdraw your plea and go to trial or we can impose sentence outside of this agreement. that part is pretty rare because prosecutors don't usually misrepresent what their case is all about. i would expect here that the same would hold true. >> and so that is what is going forward and you say normally about a three-month period? >> yes, you know, it can be a little faster, little slower depending on how busy the particular court is or the complexity of the case or whether there are co-defendants. but i expect in this case, she'll probably set a sentencing date today at the end of the plea hearing and they set the date three months out. >> mike memoli what are we going to hear, if anything, from the white house? >> reporter: well, jose, it was interesting, a month ago when this plea agreement was announced publicly, we saw simply a statement of support by the president and the first lady

for their son. not clear yet if we will see a similar statement put out today. the president has no public events on his schedule. the first lady is traveling in france at the moment. but i want to also mention, jose, some additional information that was just brought out to us, there appears to be a pause in the proceeding at the moment. i mentioned there appeared to be alignment between the judge and both sides, the prosecutors and the defense on the misdemeanor tax charges. but now there appears to be a pause over a disagreement about the second set of charges, that felony charge involving gun possession. there was an agreement as part of the plea deal here, a diversion program where hunter biden would face no jail time in order to go through this pretrial diversion program. there may be a question about whether that is appropriate. we did hear from one of our other legal analysts about how rare it is that this program is allowed for defendants in a federal case. it is often something that is offered in state and local cases. but very rarely done in a federal case.

the judge in this case, a trump-appointed judge, there appears to be a pause in the proceeding at the moment as they potentially manage through some disagreements about whether that agreement here was appropriate. >> so, barbara, what, you know, kind of in layman terms, what does that mean? >> well, first, i would disagree with the opinion that it is rare in federal court. i think it is a district by district program. in my district, the eastern district of michigan, pretrial diversion was offered on a fairly frequent basis and that's a case where a defendant agrees to admit guilt, but the charges are sort of held in advance and their permitted time to perform some sort of training, community service, counseling or something else and if they are clean for the next either 12 or 18 months, then the charges are dismissed. and so that's the kind of program here. one thing that i find unusual about this is the idea that they would use this gun charge for pretrial diversion.

in my former district, that kind of charge possessing a gun while addicted to drugs was not a crime we would charge. it was not a crime for which we would even use pretrial diversion, we would decline to bring the charges unless there was something serious the person had done and we were unable to file any other charge. i can remember using it one time against someone that we believed was planning to shoot up a church and it was the only charge available, so we used it to disrupt his plot. but, you know, here, it strikes me as it is unusual to file this gun charge whatsoever, and the resolution by pretrial diversion, you know, sounds like a way to hold him accountable, require him to perform certain conditions, and then the case essentially goes away. >> and so, barbara, so the pretrial diversion means what and it is unusual, you're saying, that some -- that a case like this would get to that? >> yes, i think that you would

either file these charges because you want to hold someone accountable when nothing else seems to fit, or you would simply decline to bring the charges. here, i suppose it is a way of holding someone accountable, but without punishing them. diversion means we're going to give you a second chance. we're going to instead of prosecuting you and having you sentenced to prison, we're going to instead impose certain conditions. used often in drug cases. someone needs drug treatment, for example, and if they perform what is required, go through the counseling or therapy, then the charges are dismissed. there are veterans courts as well where veterans sometimes commit a crime, maybe ptsd was -- or some other mental health illness caused them to commit the crime and so as long as they stay clean and they get some counseling or other help, the charges are dismissed. so that's the kind of program we're seeing here. what i'm suggesting about what is unusual about it, it seems harsh to be using pretrial diversion in this case. would seem to me that for someone who does not pose a danger to the community, a more

common occurrence would be to simply to decline charges altogether. >> and michael schmidt, all the charge of the gun possession, how did that case even come about? >> so, in 2018, when hunter biden was at the height of his addiction to crack cocaine, he went to buy a handgun. he later recounted to others that he did this because he was trying to stay sober, and it reminded him of his brother, beau, who had died and he was going to use the gun to go to a firing range. when you purchase a gun, in this country, you have to fill out a questionnaire. and on that questionnaire it asks you a series of different things. among them is are you currently addicted to drugs. and hunter biden checked no. but as he's prepared to admit today, he was using drugs before, during and after the

purchase of that weapon. so, he provided misleading information to the federal government at the time of the purchase. something that as barb was saying is -- there is a criminality question there, but it is rarely brought as a charge. >> mike memoli, michael schmidt, barbara mcquaid, thank you so much for being with us this morning. our coverage of hunter biden's plea agreement continues. up next, we'll get reaction from capitol hill and break down the political fallout to all of this. we're back in 60 seconds. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc.

15 past the hour. we're following breaking news of president biden's son hunter, who is in court, still in court this morning, to enter a guilty plea on two misdemeanor tax charges. just last night, house

republicans urged the judge to throw out his plea agreement. nbc's ali vitali is on capitol hill this morning. what reaction are you hearing there? >> reporter: that was the first ask from house republicans, who want to see this plea deal taken out of the arrangement. that's, of course, not what's happening as we watch in court as it continues on this morning. but what's notable, i think, is the way we're now watching house republicans in some ways try to move past just what they have done in using the power of the gavel to go through multiple investigations into hunter biden, attempting, but at this point, not being able to do so in terms of tieing his father to hunter biden's business dealings. that's still something that they're pushing forward on. now, though, we're hearing from the speaker of the house about what maybe could be more power than just having the majority and the power of the gavel. that's a potential impeachment inquiry and here is what mccarthy said about that yesterday. >> you understand what impeachment inquiry is?

it is not impeachment. it allows congress and investigators, by giving congress the full power to get the information they need. it is the way people should go about investigating. so let me -- put yourselves in our place, doesn't matter if you're in the majority or not. >> reporter: it does matter who is in the majority because republicans have had the power of the gavel, thusly they had subpoena power, they had the ability to go through the investigations that they wanted to do as they see fit. that doesn't mean people have to go with the subpoenas. we saw some of these very congressmen ignore subpoenas from the january 6th committee when they got theirs. nevertheless, the fact that this is something mccarthy is talking about, of course, would mark an escalation, but it also marks, again, a reminder of the balancing act that he's trying to do within his conference, the idea that some on the ultra right fringe of the republican conference and the house right now want to push forward on impeachment of the president. and then, of course, moderate members who have to go home to

districts that voted for biden and they would have to defend why they're focusing on that as opposed to other issues they ran on in the midterms. for mccarthy, this allows him to placate both sides. but it is a reminder as we see hunter in court today, the fact that this is the moment in early august, late july, frankly, that we're seeing, they're going to go home for august recess and come back in september and we'll see if there is still that same fervor that exists. certainly today, this is an escalation we're seeing from some in the republican conference. >> ali vitali on capitol hill, thank you so much. let's talk more about this breaking news. the political implications of hunter biden's guilty plea. joining us now with more is juanita tolliver, host of "what a day" podcast and msnbc political analyst, also with us is former republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania. congressman, what kind of bet are republicans making on this one? >> well, my quick analysis is it seems republicans are trying to force the issue. i think a bit too much.

they have a political issue with hunter biden and the biden family's utilization of the biden family name and it doesn't smell very good. the question is has there been any crime committed by the president of the united states. thus far, there is no evidence of that. i think the republicans are really forcing this and overreaching at this moment. i think they would be better to let this play out politically a bit more, but the hard right always wants to -- they want to scout. i was around too when they -- it was a foolish error then. it is a dangerous move politically. it is not focusing on what the american people are focused on, the economy, jobs, all things that they're concerned about. i think this is a -- it is a risk, they need to let this play out a little bit more. >> and juanita, recent polling by reuters and ipsos shows half of americans believe hunter

biden received preferential treatment from prosecutors because he's the president's son. voters were split among party lines. how does the president address the perception as this political season goes forward? >> i think the president continues to be consistent in everything that he said and has done to date. his love for his son, expressing his concern for his son, and then being explicitly hands off with all things related to the department of justice. he made that clear delineation from the moment he assumed office and has been consistent in that, and that's what he should continue doing. i couldn't agree with former representative dent more when saying that this does not pass the smell test. house republicans have been really doing the most to try to create a parallel environment between hunter biden and what we're seeing with the historic charges and indictments against former president trump. and there is no equivalence between these two things, but republicans are going to keep trying to push this because they know it is the red meat that gop primary voters in particular

want. >> so, juanita, do you think, this is this something that the president should address? >> all he needs to say is his continued and undying love for his son. that is what this is about. in this situation, he's not exclusively the president, he's a father. and that's the only way he's spoken about his son and his issues up until this point. that's the only thing he should continue to do. i don't think there needs to be anything else said because the moment the president and the biden administration needs more oxygen to this issue, you better believe republicans are going to continue to latch on it. so i would recommend that the president do not address this beyond what he has said before and supporting his son and loving his son forever. >> charlie, mccarthy also blasted president biden's assertion that his family never received any money from china, regardless of the validity of those claims, what kind of damage politically does this do to the president or is this something that a lot of people will just see as a politically

motivated talking point? >> well, i do think that the bidens are very vulnerable politically. particularly on hunter biden's business dealings with burisma and the ukrainian gas company, and dealings with china. i think that is a legitimate political issue for republicans to attack on. the challenge for the gop is -- >> oh, i think we just lost charlie dent's image and i apologize for that. that's what happens on live tv. you're back with us? go ahead, if you would start over again. >> look, the whole hunter biden issue with respect to his dealings with burisma and the chinese does smell badly. and it smacks of influence peddling. that said, there is no evidence so far that hunter biden has used his -- has somehow criminally impicated the president. that's the issue here. that's where i think the gop

runs into problems. but as a political matter, the gop has an issue. you can make a case of influence peddling here by a member of the biden family and it smells badly. right now, they have to be able to show some measure of restraint, stop forcing the issue, and just let things play out. they have got the issue. they can use it. you have to turn everything into a criminal matter. this is where they run into the overreach problem. >> juanita and charlie, thank you, both, for being with us this morning. up next, former trump white house chief of staff, mark meadows, goes on the record about going before the grand jury and investigating trump's alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election. plus, the relentless heat across the country is taking a deadly toll on people who work outside. what's being done to help farm workers that have been collapsing on the field? this is a dangerous situation for people that are carrying out some of the most vital aspects

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he's testified before a grand jury. >> you know, i don't talk about anything. >> joining us now is nbc's garrett haake who covers the trump campaign. good morning. what more can you tell us about meadows' role in the special counsel's investigation? >> with a shoutout to my colleague who got that video, frank thorp, there is some concern that mark meadows does in fact talk about what is going on with the january 6th investigation. he's a central figure in all of this as the man who was donald trump's chief of staff during the period of the end of the trump presidency, whose text messages were kind of a rosetta stone translating everything that was going on behind the scenes at trump world. he is viewed with a significant amount of suspicion, we don't know as that video indicates the degree to which he has shared additional information with the special counsel on either the classified documents case or the

election interference case around 2020. he's a central figure. we're watching the grand jury down the street from me at the federal courthouse in d.c. very chosely. they typically meet on tuesdays and thursdays which suggests tomorrow would be the next day we would see real action on this. but, you know, every day we're learning more about the scope of this investigation. we just learned yesterday that there are two more of the so-called fake electors from embattled ground states scheduled to come in and talk in august. the scope of this investigation remains broad. the investigative efforts continue even as we're kind of building on that countdown clock from the trump target letter received a week ago sunday. >> and so, i want to bring in mike memoli who is handling and reporting for us today on the hunter biden case, which is far different in every aspect. mike, what do we know? >> reporter: well, jose, a potentially significant development as we're getting information really up to the minute from our team inside the courtroom who is relaying this -- a bit of tension inside the courtroom. one of the big questions when

this plea agreement was announced a month ago was whether this really amounted to the end of the u.s. attorney here in delaware's investigation into hunter biden. at the time, the u.s. attorney put out a statement indicating that the investigation was continuing, which there was a lot of questions about at the moment. one of those questions is now being asked by the judge herself who did ask the prosecutorial team in the courtroom if there is a continuing investigation into hunter biden. the prosecutorial team indicated, yes, and the judge expressed some frustration about that. asking, and i'm paraphrasing here, jose, why are we undergoing this process today involving pleas and probation agreement if there are potentially additional charges, additional facts that may come to light here? that is the latest information we have and we don't have a resolution of that line of questioning just yet, but it does indicate here why this may not be the end of hunter biden's legal woes as it relates to this particular investigation here, jose. >> i want to bring in barbara mcquaid again.

can you -- this is just happening as we're speaking, but, again, what does this mean? >> well, you know, it is an interesting thing that david wise said the investigation remains ongoing. i suppose the judge is saying, if it is ongoing, why are we resolving it here? that happens from time to time. the judge may ask questions, but it is the prosecutor who gets to decide whether to go forward. it may be that there are other crimes that are being investigated, it may be there are other people being investigated. or it may be that they want to keep this open during the period that hunter biden is on pretrial diversion to let him know that they mean business and if he fails to fulfill the conditions of the pretrial diversion, he will indeed be charged. but, you know, that's part of her job to ask questions and for the prosecutors to take the position that they want to take. i expect she will accept the guilty plea, but take the

agreement under advisement. >> garrett haake, mike memoli, barbara mcquaid, thank you for being with us. up next, breaking news in new york city, a crane collapsing, dropping 40 stories on to a busy street. there it is. the moment it collapses, we're going to bring you the very latest next. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. you're watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. (bobby) my store and my design business? we're exploding. but my old internet, was not letting me run the show. so, we switched to verizon business internet. they have business grade internet, nationwide. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. i have moderate to severe crohn's disease. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are looking up ♪ ♪ i've got symptom relief ♪ ♪ control of my crohn's means everything to me. ♪ ♪ ♪ control is everything to me. ♪ feel significant symptom relief with skyrizi, including less abdominal pain and fewer bowel movements at 4 weeks. skyrizi is the first and only il-23 inhibitor

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and we have breaking news in the hunter biden hearing. let's go right to nbc's tom winter who just ran outside of the court. what do you have, tom? >> reporter: well, right now the united states department of justice and the son of the president of the united states robert hunter biden have no deal. that's what was just stated in court. both sides are taking a ten-minute recess now to see if they can agree to terms on the plea agreement. starting about 11:00 a.m., the judge started to question whether or not a provision in the agreement, this pretrial diversion on the gun charge, as well, and we're just finding this out now, i ask the audience patience with this, because we haven't within able to see the court documents today, as part of the charges there aadditional tax charges, that won't be brought, the judge questions that and says, look, the pretrial diversion agreement is outside of my purview, but it is

referenced in the sentence -- in the plea agreement, excuse me, between the two parties. and she questioned the government and said, you're asking me to approve and accept this plea agreement, but yet i've got this pretrial diversion that is hanging out there. and is it your understanding, hunter biden, that, you know, if there is some sort of a break in the agreement here, are you willing to still move forward as far as the difference between the pretrial diversion agreement and the plea agreement. hunter biden said, no, your honor. the two sides meet at 11:00 a.m., chris clark who represents hunter biden goes over to the prosecution, the judge took a ten-minute recess there and he said, and this is a quote, we'll rip it up. we'll tear up this agreement right then. the two sides got back together again after that 10, 15-minute recess and said, look, we agree now the pretrial diversion is separate from all this, and with respect to the plea agreement, the only reason why we

referenced this is to say that when you cut to sentencing guidelines, which is this idea of what eventually sentence hunter biden should get for the misdemeanor tax offenses, you can't include the gun charge into that. everything seemed to be okay at that point, but the judge asked, there is an ongoing investigation going on here, the government said, yes, they agree. they say, what does that ongoing investigation involve? they say they can't talk about it. they said, okay, so you're asking me to accept a plea agreement but does that cover any potential charges? she referenced the work that hunter biden has done for entities in foreign countrys? she sai does this preclude you from bringing charges in the future if i accept this plea agreement, the government said no, we could bring the charges. the defense acting on behalf of hunter biden disagreed with that and said that's not my understanding of the agreement, and then the federal prosecutors said, then there is no deal.

that was at 11:31. and chris clark who represents hunter biden says as far as i'm concerned, the plea agreement is null and void. just as i left the courtroom itself, the judge determined that there should be a ten-minute recess to try and figure out whether or not the two parties can quickly come to an agreement. otherwise, the trial clock is on. as i was leaving the courtroom, she was talking about status conferences, future filings, as if there was no plea agreement at all, the very reason we're here today does not exist. as we're standing here, i'm locking at my clock, my watch to make sure they're not back in, as i stand here there is no current plea deal between the justice department and the son of the president. that's where we stand. >> so, tom, kind of listening in to all of this, so you're talking about something that happened eight minutes ago, the judge did a ten-minute pause there, we're talking about right now this should any minute now be coming back in and discussing

this issue. but as of right now, that agreement, that deal, that agreement is null and void? >> reporter: as of right now, the both parties have agreed that the deal terms that they have worked out, the plea agreement that they have worked out does not exist. now, could in the time that i've been explaining to you, jose, what has happened here this morning, that they could have come to new terms, that they could talk about it, they could come to some sort of an agreement in front of the judge, all that could be happening literally as i sit here and speak to you. as the moment i left the courtroom, a little after 11:31, the plea agreement is out. and i'm happy to answer any follow-up questions. i would like to get back into the court overflow room, i can't get back into the main room, but i would like to get back into the court overflow room and report back to you all and let you know if we have a resolution. >> thank you very much. literally second by second, this is changing. i thank you for your coverage,

tom. barbara mcquaid is still with us. barbara, again, is this not unusual upon unusual? >> i would say it is unusual because usually the parties are very prepared about what they're agreeing to and what they're not agreeing to. i think this is probably likely a hiccup. it is unusual that you would have these sort of two different agreements going on at the same time. and it sounds like the judge here is looking out for the interests of hunter biden. she wants to make sure that he's not agreeing on the one hand to this deal where he gets probation and then the government is going to sort of back door him by continuing to investigate other crimes and spring those on him when he thinks he's resolving a whole case today. normally the language that gets included in a plea agreement goes something like this, the government agrees not to prosecute the defendant for any other crimes of which it is currently aware. and that protects the government, in case they find out that this person in detroit we always said kidnapped and murdered jimmy hoffa, if we find

out something, we don't want to be bound we can't bring a case against them again or if they commit a crime in the future, we want the ability to be able to prosecute them. we say anything we are currently aware, this resolves it. i don't know whether that language is in this plea agreement. but i imagine that as they go back to their respective sides, they will work to see if that is something that they can agree to. because a defendant should not take that leap of faith that there won't be more charges that come down the pike. so, i think the judge here is being very cautious to look out for the interests of hunter biden and his lawyer does not want to proceed unless he gets those assurances. certainly more -- a farrah case could be brought later down the road. if the government knows about it and the parties discussed it, that should be off the table at this point. >> and so, i'm just wondering if indeed they can't get to any kind of a agreement on this, we're talking about right now, we're 42 after, it should be about the time that they're back

in the courtroom, or, you know, having discussed this. what are the -- what are the steps, what is the process if there is a break in an agreement? you know, during the actual case? what happens next? >> i would imagine the prosecution would go back and regroup, but the charges they would bring would likely be more serious than those to which they are allowing a guilty plea, that's how it goes. you get a break when you plead guilty. the stakes could get higher for hunter biden. i would imagine they would want to go back and take some time. i don't think this case is going to go to trial in 70 days because the charges that are on the table at the moment are those charges that were filed in contemplation of a guilty plea. i think the prosecution would go back, reassess, file charges, under the most serious readily provable offense, the ordinary charging position of the government. and then after those charges are filed, the speedy trial clock

would begin. but, you know, if the parties reached this point, it is clear they both want to resolve it. if they aren't able to resolve it in the next ten minutes or so, while the court is in session, they'll go back to their corners and reassess and come up with a resolution that works. i think that the judge here is appropriately looking out for the interests of the defendant, and the government sort of trying to have its cake and eat it too, but sounds more semantic than it is substantive. my guess is they'll work it out eventually. >> so, the working out could be a matter of days, not hours or minutes? >> usually gets resolved in minutes or hours. if i were a betting person, i would say more than 50% likely it gets resolved today. but if not, within the next week. >> i want to -- barbara, stay with us, i want to bring in kelly o'donnell. kelly, this is unexpected for many people. sounded like this was going to be essentially a fait accompli, go in, agree to what was agreed and go forward.

but is there any reaction from the white house? >> reporter: not on the difficulties that have just erupted and the questions that have been injected into this process. but i was reaching out to white house officials who basically said that when the plea agreement was announced, the president and first lady said in a statement at that time that they love their son, and they're proud of him for continuing to rebuild his life. and they have expressed support for him through this. what we have typically heard from the white house is that kind of a family personal connection to hunter biden, who is obviously embroiled in what is a public event in terms of a prosecution, but also a political one in that he is so often the subject of conservative criticism and questions that are being raised in the political space. but for the president, apart from the functions of government, he has really cast himself in a way that people can

relate to, he's the father of this only surviving son, and he and the first lady want to express love for his continued work on recovery. our colleague mike memoli mentioned that the subject was introduced in court about when was the last time hunter biden had been using illegal substances, that is a part of his process going forward. so, expressions of support for hunter biden as a person, not weighing in on the particulars of the prosecution here. on this matter, and on things relating to former president trump and other subjects, the white house has tried to put as much distance between the president and the function of the white house and the department of justice. as today's events unfold, you know if this is unresolved, that will give us new questions to pose here. but it is mostly been in the personal lane of trying to maintain that family support. we have seen hunter biden on campus here at the white house, for white house events, at the state dinner, an active member

of the family, he and his wife and their young child and his grown children are a part of the festivities here, whether it was fourth of july fireworks or a state event or an entertainment performance that happened at the white house. he's visible as a member of this family. and, of course, he's a protectee of the secret service. in court today, he's got his protective detail. and so forth. so, we will watch as everyone does what happens here and i'm not a lawyer, but having covered a lot of these cases, the expectation was how to execute this court appearance with as minimal political pain from the perspective of hunter biden, his father who is now a candidate for re-election, and so forth. this certainly injects some uncertainty and that, of course, will raise ongoing questions. on capitol hill we have seen how hunter biden's business activities and so forth have been the focus of criticism. and so if any of that weighs in today, that would not be

unexpected. so, from the white house point of view they certainly would have hoped this would go through quietly today in the sense of no surprises. instead, we do have some surprises as we wait to figure out if this is a short-term problem, or something that is going to go on for a period beyond today. jose? >> surprise indeed. kelly, i want to bring back mike memoli in delaware. mike, we're just speaking with tom, who was inside there, just talking about how really at 11:31, there was a statement that there was no deal. is this something that was clearly unexpected by the hunter biden folks? >> reporter: well, this certainly seems to be a surprise because the -- simply the idea of a plea agreement you would expect both the prosecutors and the defense attorneys have dotted all the is, crossed all the ts and are in full agreement about what proceeds and the beginning of an indication that things were potentially heading in a different direction today is when hunter biden himself was questioned about whether these

two separate tranches of charges in which he was pleaing about today, one, the federal tax charges, the failure to pay federal taxes and, second, the gun possession charge, were essentially linked. would he agree to the terms of these agreements moving forward if they were not linked? and hunter biden indicated, no, he was entering this agreement under the assumption these were linked. that was complication number one. complication number two has to do with what the u.s. attorneys' team did state in public -- in the courtroom itself, which is that there is still an ongoing investigation. and whether that would then lead to potential further charges. so, as we understand it, at the moment, there was a ten-minute break in which potentially both sides could get back on the same page here. maybe agree to the ruling in the road moving forward. but there is also a discussion on whether there needs to be a formal end of today's proceedings and set new dates down the road while they potentially try to recobble this agreement altogether. needless to say, this would be a

setback for hunter biden, for the first family, who thought they would move one more step toward the formal sentencing process down the road, but then the president would be free to go on about the campaign without the legal threat cloud hovering over his son and obviously hunter biden himself can go through the go through the terms of the agreement, go into counseling, which was brought up as one of the terms of his probation, agreed to stay off of drugs and alcohol and move forward to as the first family is saying in their statement, continue to rebuild his life. the other thing, worth noting, this was never going to end, for the moment, questions particularly among republicans in congress about the ways in which the justice department has handled this case. in fact, these proceedings, this confusion is likely to deepen the interest of republicans on capitol hill to bring, for instance, the u.s. attorney for delaware, acting as a special prosecutor in this case, to come to testify before congress. it's going to deepen interest in potentially what may, as speaker

mccarthy has floated, the idea of an impeachment inquiry, if an investigation is still ongoing that should be known to congress. the legal cloud continuing to grow here. let's wait until we get more information as the proceeding potentially continues and resolves itself before we get too far down that road. >> barbara, i want to bring up the issue that it's so unusual, is it not, that something like not paying your taxes for two years would get to a point like we are seeing in the hunter biden case? >> prosecutors have scarce resources, they aim atcases causing danger. my former office, we had the resources to bring 1,000 cases a year across every subject matter. as a result, if we were going to charge a criminal tax case, we would want to know it was associated with organized crime

or violent crime or massive fraud. someone who simply evades taxes typically is dealt with civilly. they have to pay it back plus interest, plus penalties, plus fines. to see him being charged criminally seems more harsh. there may be other things they are looking at, like the foreign agent registration agent, where someone is acting as an agent of a foreign country and has failed to notify the attorney general or get permission to do that. we don't know that in the public domain. if that's what is underlying some of the crimes, then a tax charge might be a way to compromise. >> this foreign agent registration act, is that also a violation of that make it a criminal offense? >> yes, it can be.

it's one that's not brought all that often. it is a serious crime if someone is -- for example, there were allegations that mike flynn was acting as an agent of the government of turkey when he wrote an op-ed in a newspaper in the united states suggesting it was his opinion when, in fact, it had been ghost written for him. if you were put up to it, then the public has a right to know that, that you were working as that agent, perhaps as a paid agent. if someone is lobbying on behalf of a foreign government, that should be disclosed and that can be charged as a criminal offense. i don't know there's any evidence that hunter biden has done it. i raise it because it was asked during the plea hearing about whether the government might be pursuing charges for other crimes. >> mike memoli, this plea hearing this morning was for many people something that was going to happen pretty routinely

in a couple of hours. >> reporter: that's right. we were expecting this to last as long as two hours. the only question of whether it would go on longer had to do with the filing from capitol hill republicans who were seeking to call attention to the possibility there should be more serious charges brought here. there was an agreement on the part of the defense team as well as the prosecutors that more serious charges, as it relates to the tax and gun issue, should be brought in this case. obviously, this later setback as the judge was stress testing this plea agreement, asking questions about the terms and what happens next has led to the delay. an indication to the surprise is that we had been getting the indication that hunter biden was looking for an opportunity not just to do what we have seen already, which is speak in the courtroom itself, but then speak with reporters afterwards, an

indication of the fact that they believed this was a process that was ending, could be put in the rearview mirror. now the question of whether we will hear from hunter if there's an ongoing case, if there is a need for negotiations between his legal team and the government or whether the government proceeds on its own would put that in jeopardy as well. >> mike, just to be clear, there was an understanding that hunter biden after the -- his meeting in delaware would have something to say? >> reporter: that's right. we had been given indications from hunter biden's legal team that he would look for an opportunity to speak with those of us gathered outside of here after. obviously, everything, i would say, is up in the air at the moment. we will see if that proceeds, if and when we get a sense of how this is potentially being resolved as we speak behind closed doors. >> mike memoli, thank you very much. kelly, i'm wondering if there's any understanding of any communication or kind of coordination between what hunter biden was expected to do today

and the white house. >> reporter: they have tried to keep distance. certainly, on that personal level, i think it's possible that the president and his son might speak by phone. they speak all the time. the president makes a point that he speaks to his grandchildren every day. there could be that level of communication. but from the white house, as an entity and organization, they have kept a distance from this, because they have said that the matter should be held and dealt with separately. obviously, hunter biden has his own counsel and so forth. in this place, in 1600 pennsylvania avenue, he is a first son more than an extension of the administration. politically, people often see that as him as a target politically. the president has no public events on his schedule today. he is here. we expect a white house briefing. i'm sure she will get questions on this. she refers those to the white

house counsel's office spokesperson team or to the private counsel for hunter biden, who are with him in delaware. certainly, many people in delaware thought they would have a train ticket back to d.c. today. that is an open question about whether this will be resolved and how quickly it will move forward. >> barbara, just to recap on this, just the fact that there was a no deal statement made in the courtroom today doesn't necessarily mean, barbara, that this is a no deal going forward permanently. >> that's right. jose, my guess is that the parties will go back and hammer out language and be able to resolve it. once you get to this stage, both sides want to resolve it. they have made a decision they think the substance of the deal is what they want to achieve. if the language is hanging them up and it sounds like that's the issue here, i'm sure that can be resolved. if the judge has time on her docket, maybe she will hear it today. if she doesn't, it will be rescheduled down the road. >> barbara and kelly, thank you

so much. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm jose diaz-balart. thank you for the privilege of your time. up next, andrea mitchell sits down live with chris christie. i don't. new cascade platinum plus has me doing dishes... differently. scrub? soak? nope. i just scrape, load and i'm done. only platinum plus is bigger. with double the dawn grease fighting power and double the scrubbing power. for a no rewash clean... and a cabinet ready shine. rewash? not in my house. upgrade to new cascade platinum plus. dare to dish differently. have fun, sis! ( ♪♪ )

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right now on "andrea mitchell reports," breaking news. deal or no deal? hunter biden's plea deal falls apart in court, when the judge raises questions about other ongoing investigations and a separate gun charge. what happens now? donald trump downplaying what could be an indictment on charges he tried to steal the election as jack smith calls more fake electors to testify. >> i'm not concerned. we are legit. we have very corrupt people running our country. the 2024 republican primaries, a race for second place.