goes. what do you think of that? >> i think sometimes we get a little lecture about the virtues of democracy and assume everyone is all in on the project. i believe there's an actual conversation in the country whether democracy is actually working for regular people or if it's permanently captured by elites to make money for billionaires and corporations. i want my party to spend less time lecturing people about democracy and laughing off the praise that donald trump is praising viktor orban. and in the meantime big plans to transfer power from the elites to regular people as a means of showing democracy can work for them. i don't think we should assume the people in this country will be in for democracy for the next 50 years if it continues to consolidate wealth and power in the hands of the elites. we better be wise to that

conversation that's happening across the country. >> senator chris murphy, thank you very much. that is all in on this tuesday night. good evening alex. >> liberal democracy, not a foregone conclusion apparently. woo hoo, these times. and thank you at home for joining me. today the former special council that investigated president biden's mishandling of classified documents was ruled by house members on capitol hill. former special council has declined to charge president biden with anything, concluding officially nothing president biden did was worthy of prosecution. that did not stop republicans in congress are making a four- hour circus out of the testimony today. that's because the hearing wasn't actually about matters of law, it was about political points. the reality is the only reason joe biden accidentally

taking some classified documents with him, the only reason that matters at all is because donald trump willfully, purposefully took classified documents with him when he left office and then tried to obstruct justice to cover it all up. these two cases are not the same. don't just take my word for that. here is former special council reading from his very own report on the matter. >> unlike the evidence involving mr. biden, the evidence for the indictment of trump if proven would present serious aggravating facts. i am happy to have you read the words. >> it's your report so i think it's more fitting that you read those pics >> most notably after being given multiple chances to return classified documents mr. trump allegedly did the opposite. according to the indictment he not only refused to return the documents for many months but obstructed justice i listing

others to destroy evidence and lie about it. >> we will get into the apparent reluctance to read aloud the negative parts of donald trump, even if they were parts he wrote but congresswoman natalie forced mr. hurts to highlight the conclusion in this whole thing. in one case, biden he seen what you have to be a legitimate mistake followed by full cooperation with law enforcement. in the other, trump, you have what appears to be criminal intent and obstruction of justice. this is to underscore the chasm that separates these cases. yesterday we got even more evidence of just how intensely criminal donald trump's actions appear to be. on monday one of the witnesses in the investigation came forward and up until yesterday we knew the witness only as trump employee 5. there now reporting his name is brian

butler, longtime employee at mar-a-lago and he witnessed some incredibly damning things. like the day trump flew from florida to bedminster new jersey. trumps body man and walt asked mr. butler to get him a big suv, and escalate. butler then saw him and the other co-defendant load the vehicle up with 10-15 bankers boxes and then drive them to trumps plain and then load those bankers boxes onto the plane. mr. butler said that all took place on june 3rd, 2022. later the same day one of trump's lawyers provided investigators with what he said was the entirety of classified documents that remain in trump's position. as well as foreign certification that falsely claimed on trump's behalf that he and team trump conduct to

the diligent search of boxes and all responsive documents have been turned over. so what brian butler is asserting is pretty explosive. not only did trump hideaway 105 classified documents that the fbi eventually found. it sure sounds like trump managed to steal another 10-15 boxes of records. we don't know if the fbi ever got those records back. who knows where those boxes are? that sure sounds like obstruction of justice. what is equally concerning is why brian butler decided to go public right now. here he was explaining his decision. >> well it's been almost a year since fbi agents showed up at my house when my wife was at home. over the course of the last year emotionally it's been a roller coaster. a couple of weeks ago judge cannon said she would release the names of the witnesses.

you go from highs to lows in this. instead of just waiting for it to come out i think it's better that i get to say what happened then it coming out in the news and people calling me crazy. i'd rather get it out there. the hope is i can move on with my life and get over this. >> brian butler coming forward here is brave. president trump has a track record of trying to intimidate witnesses who speak out against him. his followers have a track record of harassing and threatening anyone they perceived to be donald trump's enemy. coming out in this big public way is in itself a big deal. as the months go on the list of trumps transgression, if not the list of his actual crimes, those lists continue to grow. yet for now the mar-a-lago classified documents case is on hold. instead of talking about a trial, in congress to focus is

on president biden and not just how we handle classified documents as a legal matter is already settled. instead the focus is on biden's age and whether he is fit to be president. the former special council himself played a huge role in that. his report made broad and seemingly unusual characterizations about biden's age. now one of the congresspeople who question hearn today was adam schiff. before becoming a congressman ship spent years as the attorney of district of california. meaning he's no stranger to how prosecution like this should be run. he knows the rules and he does not think the former special council has followed them. >> politics played no part whatsoever in my investigative steps. >> you understood, you cannot

tell me that your words would not have created a political farce drum. you understood how they would be manipulated by my colleagues on the gop side of the island by president trump. you understood that. >> what i understood is regulations that govern my conduct as special council. confidential report for the attorney general. >> you knew it was not confidential. what is in the rules is you don't gratuitously do things to prejudice the subject of an investigation when you're declining to prosecute. you don't gratuitously add language that you know would be useful in a political campaign. you are not born yesterday, you made a political choice, it was the wrong choice. mr. chairman, ideal backpack >> joining me now is congressman adam schiff he's a member of the house judiciary committee and congressman ship

it's great to see you. you, i think made an impact today, shall we say in your questioning of the former special council. i'm wondering what your assessment was when you asked him whether he believed that this was not a political document or he did not make any political considerations when assessing peasant resident bryden's memory. did you believe him? >> i didn't believe him at all. he tried to claim this was a confidential memo but it was also knowledge he knew it would be made public the attorney general made it clear it would be public. the idea that he was required to give this personalized, prejudicial, biased essentially broadside against the president. that was necessary to his report is absurd. he could've commented all he wanted on the presidents

specific recollection on this or that document. it would've been a pope but he understands doing dozens and dozens of depositions. if witnesses don't remember something clearly should say they don't recall. there's nothing unusual about that. to take this political potshot at the president during the minutes of the campaign when he knows how it will be used. grave abuse of prosecutorial authority and he knows it. >> i feel like he wanted to issue a backhanded, not quite indictment of the president. he got into a big back and forth over whether or not the president was exonerated by his report. he kept saying i did not exonerate him. why if he wasn't going to charge him he refused to say i do not exonerate him? >> i think, in the clip you played, his reluctance to recourses to that report critical of donald trump.

what he decided to do lacking the evidence to charge the president he would do the next best thing, which is give them a political bludgeon. attack the presidents memory. paint an unflattering portrait of him. that was more damaging than any observation he might've made about the facts or the chargeability of the facts. i think he has a tough time criticizing trump. he may have future political ambitions. he doesn't want to alienate someone who might be president. he doesn't want to alienate the republican party. this is his effort, failing to find fax to charge to gratify the trump crowd. >> what do you make of the fundamental issue on display? the fundamental conclusion worth repeating over and over. the vast gulf that separates what president biden did versus

former president trump on classified document retention. do you think democrats made a forceful enough distinction given all that republicans have stored up, the political bludgeon to try to muddy the water and impugn president biden's age and fitness for office? >> i think yes, madeleine did a great job. ted lieu also did a great job going through the itemized charges against donald trump and concealing materials to try to get people to lie about it. talking about scrubbing the server that had surveillance footage on it. all these respects just night and day with president biden's not deliberate effort to retain documents with his full cooperation and likely interviews. it was a sharp contrast, democrats made the contrast that i also think it

became clear watching hearn respond to questions this is not a neutral, objective nonpartisan prosecutor. this is someone who was a republican appointee who really found it difficult, as you say in his own words, to read from his own report that would be critical of donald trump. i think the public got a sense of who he is and where it is coming from that this is not a neutral arbiter. >> independent of what they have to say, i wonder how much an impact the latest developments out of the classified documents case is going to have with the american public as we head into the election season where we may not get any of the criminal trials. they may not happen before the election. we have a witness coming forth saying not only did donald trump retain over 100 classified documents at his residents, he may have stolen 10-15 bankers boxes and took them to points

north or wherever. do you think that has the impact that it should or do you think there has been some false equivalence made between biden taking things. regardless of the fact that it wasn't criminal and what prompted. do you think the transgressions of that case have lost their impact in the court of public opinion? >> i don't think they've lost their impact but the indictments were some time ago, i think it's valuable to remind people of these egregious facts. mr. butler coming forward, given the trial doesn't look like it will go forward before the election to say, hey the president was involved in hiding these classified materials. i was asked in a suspicious way to help load these boxes of documents on the same day the presidents lawyers a meeting with the justice department to go over these classified materials. lord knows what happened to all

or some of these documents. i thought mr. butler's statements about having this billionaire, foreign person talking about russian and other submarine or u.s. capabilities. the astonishment that the president would talk to some wealthy donors or patron in mar- a-lago shows you what a security risk to hold mar-a-lago enterprise was. donald trump willingness to show photographs of things to different parties that were potentially classified materials. terrified to think of him getting classified briefings now and i hope the agencies dumb at down so they don't share anything with the president they don't want shared with the world. >> the only materials published , i don't know in the washington post and l.a. times.

we probably won't read either. congressman adam shipp thank you for taking the time. really appreciate it. we have a lot to get to this evening including a doctored photo of the royal family means for american politics. plus presidential spoiler rfk junior announces his short list for running mates includes, surprise a very prominent anti- vaccine. that's coming up. easy to apply for the whole family. vicks vapostick. and try vicks vaposhower for steamy vicks vapors. >> woman: why did we choose safelite? we're always working von a project.k. while loading up our suv, one extra push and... crack! so, we scheduled at safelite.com. we were able to track our technician and knew exactly when he'd arrive. we can keep working! ♪ synth music ♪ >> woman: safelite came to us. >> tech: hi, i'm kendrick. >> woman: replaced our windshield,

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>> we are all dirty, we all move boxes. maybe you but not me unless they are amazon boxes. man speaking is brian butler. longtime mar-a-lago employee

who quit three months after the i searched the property. butler testified to special jack smith team and is in the indictment as trump employee five. nbc news has not independently confirmed mr. butler's role, the fact he has come for now is telling. any day now the judge in the case may release the identities of unnamed witnesses like witness number 5. it puts at least a dozen others like mr. butler at risk. judge cannon has yet to rule on whether she will release the names of the prosecution. she held a hearing 11 days ago, the trial date is still very much tbd. joining me now is msnbc lisa rubin. it's always so wonderful to have you on set. continued confusion about what's happening in florida. and other legal scholars, what

is canon going to do here? this seems like a very bad call, witnesses should be protected. especially those the president has a history of aligning if not outright harassing pictures i was reading the transcript you are referring to earlier tonight and canon still has a leaning towards revealing their names. she actually asks david harbaugh of special council's office, has there been any indication that any of these witnesses have been threatened? his response was incredulous but then he said to her, that's not the standard your honor. we don't have to show that a witness has been threatened in order to make a credible case that the revelation of their names would compromise the investigation as well as their public safety. you feel like if she says no, jack smith takes this to the 11th circuit? >> i do because it's not just

about ryan butler as trump employee number five who unveiled himself willingly. there are 25 other witnesses according to the estimation that could be impacted. is not just their identities. it's about the substance of their expected testimony. they could also be communications between numbers of the prosecution team about some of these witnesses. and let's say they're talking about lisa rubin a witness and lower down the talking about alex wagner. you could end up having alex wagner's name in the public domain even though it's incidental for the settings that it was used in the underlying motion. that is the subject of this unveiling order. >> i do wonder when we talk about the most explosive elements of the interview with mr. butler. i was shocked at his account of helping to load 10-15 bankers boxes that he said look like

boxes of classified documents that we have seen in the classified indictment. those boxes were loaded onto a plane and took off. to me, if i am the special council, they knew this months ago. why not continue looking for them? what does that reflect on the part of jack smith. >> we don't know that they haven't recover them. they maybe determine that all the boxes were returned to mar- a-lago and they essentially follow trump around wherever he went. i had a conversation with someone about our shared recollection when trump showed up for a deposition in the civil fraud case, he was seen outside trump tower with personal aides carting the same source of bankers boxes. there is a reference in the indictment to the fact that carlos and others shepherded boxes onto a plane as trump was

leaving from florida to head north. and never disclosed that brian butler as trump employee number five was among them and we don't know what happened to the boxes what the contents were. >> do you feel confident? in the back of my mind this is all pure speculation i should warn at home, it seems jack smith, more than anyone else has understood the abbreviated calendar within he is working. he built a federal indictment january 6th that was made for speed, let's get it done. that is up in the air. mar-a-lago casings narrow and clear, he didn't bother with the dissemination charge trying to say trump was trying to spread secrets. that's intentional, i go for the stuff i can convict on. and he can still use evidence of this as proof of intent at trial even if it doesn't lead to a separate charge. i think jack smith has adopted

a surgical approach. he has determined based on the teams experience that further superseding the indictment is to know one's benefit of that means if and when the case were ever to be tried that we would see some of the things brian butler talks about in the interview come back and make a reappearance at trial including his testimony. >> there is been a fatalist attitude about this because it's unlikely to happen before november but there's a 50% chance that joe biden is the president come the end of november it means this trial could actually happen. i do wonder what you think the timeline is for this given canons and decision to set a date. >> a lot depends on what the supreme court does on immunity. trump has made multiple dismissals and two will be dealt with but presidential immunity is not one of them. depending on what the supreme

court does the case could go away or come back to judge cannon to determine, even if he is immune, for acts that are alleged to be official. does the stuff in this indictment count as axworthy of immunity? i would tell you know. postpresidential acts that don't qualify. donald trump is saying they emanate from his lawful possession during his presidency he is entitled to cloak himself in the bathrobe of immunity. >> does that mean he can go in the white house and say i can still but i'm that seems trump merit. lisa rubin it's great to see you my friend. thank you for bearing with my questions and i appreciate you. still to come, why a badly, badly photoshop portrait of reddish royalty has implications for american politics. we will explain, coming up. plus trump and biden cross a

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>> in a few hours when the

votes are tallied in the washington state primary, donald trump is set to be the presumptive republican nominee. thanks to a primary win in georgia joe biden is the presumptive democratic nominee. here we go general election. president biden was not waiting to secure a number of delegates, he released this ad going over donald trump and taking on the age question head- on. >> look, i'm not a young guy. that's no secret that here's the deal. i understand how to get things done for the american people. i lead the country through the covid crisis. today we have the strongest economy in the world. i passed drug prices, for seniors. for four years donald trump tried to pass an infrastructure law and he failed. i got it done. >> so president biden is running on the stuff he's done. and donald trump?

he's firing dozens of people at the republican national committee including the political director as his campaign takes operational control of the organization. is calling it a national television program and floating ideas like this. >> have you changed your outlook on how to handle social security, medicaid? >> there is a lot you can do in terms of entitlements and cutting. >> trump follow that up by announcing his first act of president will be to close the border, drill baby drill and free the january 6 hostages. joining me now is tim miller and claire mccaskill, thank you for being with me here tonight to understand what is happening. claire, let me ask you. you could talk about the infrastructure bill, climate change, lowering the cost of common medications, detecting the social safety net or you

can talk about freeing the january 6 hostages and firing the political director. which strategy would you take? >> i like our side of the fence. i think biden has a stronger hand. let's not lead off the fact that what donald trump does is talk about how america sucks. he is constantly trying to convince everyone that we are terrible, that we are in decline, that america is awful. i don't think that's what most americans believe or frankly want to hear. i think they want somebody who believes in the goodness of our country. somebody who sees we are in a stronger economic position than any of our other developed nations across the globe. that we are doing better than we were under donald trump. i actually think that even though there are lots of days left before the election, i would much rather be joe biden

then donald trump. i think he has a stronger hand. >> we are told repeatedly by trump, the trump campaign is a well oiled machine. better run and managed than it was in 2016. a low bar admittedly but they did secure endorsements and have more of an official campaign apparatus. having said that the nationalization of the campaign and the fact it's appeal rests on the shoulders of donald trump when he's out there saying i will cut social security and medicare, talking jointly about january 6 hostages i wonder how much the campaign and deafness of the campaign matters with the principal of saying that stuff. >> i do think it's fair to say they have professionals around them and it must be better than 2016 where he had several campaign managers and most of them were indicted at one point or the other. including paul manafort who was a russian spy or back

channeling during the 2016 campaign. pretty low bar for improvement on getting people around him. i think they have stepped over that but the have a lot of other things going against them they didn't have in 2016. donald trump hadn't been indicted, no track record to compare. thought the infrastructure was the best part because it addressed all the accomplishments but it also addressed the age contrast in a way. your word i'm too old? well this other old guy said he would do infrastructure every week and look who did it. i did it. having a marginally better campaign team, i don't know if that offsets all of the other challenges donald trump faces. >> i agree with you and i wonder when biden talks about his ability to get infrastructure past you see a fumbling image of donald trump. which is actually totally different from what we seen as

donald trump. we have seen him as a pernicious, nefarious evildoer. but bumbling, fumbling and ineffective is the new bucket. i wonder how useful you think that will be if biden tries to claim common area in the trump years. >> all you have to do is play tape of donald trump at some of these rallies. when he goes onto the sentences that aren't sentences and he talks gibberish and he doesn't know who he's running against and he doesn't identify leaders with the right country. in the middle of it all he loses his train of thought goes sideways. he clearly has some cognitive issues. i think the best thing that has happened in the biden campaign is a figured out the have to go after donald trump. they can't just sit in oval office and be presidential and talk about biden nymex, they have to go after donald trump they're doing that and donald

trump is helping them by going on to show where he's appealing to rich donors and saying he's willing to cut social security and medicare. these are mistakes campaign operatives cannot fix. >> to that end, your bull worth buddy sarah is ahead of the project reporting they will spend $50 million in the campaign effectively against trump. they do not consider themselves pro-biden shop but it will feature homemade videos of americans who voted for trump in the past whether 2016 but have chosen not to in 2024. how effective do you think that would be in moving the critical slice of independent swing voters to the left side of the aisle? >> i think sarah, defend her honor as pro-biden but the strategy here is talking about

people that might not want to get around biden. i don't get that, but i think this is important. there is a lot of democratic groups with pacs trying to activate young voters or black voters or other parts of the coalition. this is a targeted effort to reach pretty much republican voters who voted for donald trump. they are trump voters and moving some of them from going a trump voter to nothing. that's a step in the right direction. that's +1. moving into joe biden is a full flip. in order to do that these testimonials are hearing from them. as much as we like each other. hearing from claire or me, someone who voted for hillary is not going to be as compelling from someone who looks and sounds like them who voted for donald trump and out explaining for whatever reason. january 6th, his behavior since then, the way he handled the

economy or covid. you can't get around it at this time. that is a way to move a critical, small number one or 2% but meaningful percent in the election. >> i will not impugn your reputation, i don't think anyone voting for trump in 2020 will hear from me. we have news tonight that robert f kennedy junior, the third-party candidate may be choosing jesse ventura or the jets quarterback aaron rodgers, a known anti-vaccine are to be his running mate. does this matter at this stage in the game? the continued horniness of the kennedy candidacy have the potential to foil this race. >> first, don't get me started on eryn rogers. with they go off and do the whole thing together in a dark

room. poor jeff. but here's the thing. we will have to spend a lot of money explaining to people in this election that a vote for anyone other than joe biden is a vote for donald trump. it's going to be expensive. people don't realize. they see the name, i'm looking at the polls and he pulls votes from trump and a few from biden. i think the kennedy family will get involved, i believe they would because they think this is a horrible idea. i have to tell you the truth i don't think jesse ventura or eryn rogers will help someone who has wacky ideas like robert f kennedy has. >> reese driver was a guest of the president at the state of the union. she is one of the, can we call her the matriarch. one of the most prominent

kennedy family members. thank you both for joining me this evening. really appreciate you. still ahead. the photo that simultaneously broke the internet and public trust. what the british royal photo scandal says about institutional integrity and what donald trump has to do with all of it. that is up next. the moment. so this might be a good time to mention that aspen dental can create natural looking dentures in no time. just for you! and that comes with $0 down plus 0% interest if paid in full in 18 months. helping mothers of grooms look their best. it's one more way aspen dental is in your corner. i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. [sniff] still fresh. ♪♪ get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection.

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>> the released of photo today. >> several sources have recalled this photo of kate middleton with her children because they say it's been manipulated. >> if you look at the sweater you can see it's not fully there. right here it juts out and doesn't make sense. i believe the photo was taken back in november of 2023. are not going to release a photo with them supposed to be in brand-new outfits from an event so they tinkered it a little bit. >> it was literally, fatally generate a. >> i now you've probably seen the photo that launched 1000 conspiracy theories. they release this photo of the princess of wales, kate middleton and their family for british mother's day. immediately people clocked several obvious signs the photo had been digitally edited.

major news associates removed the image from their official databases because the image appeared to have been manipulated by the royal family. for contacts, kate middleton has been absent from public light for two months now. in january the palace announce she was undergoing abdominal surgery but didn't give details. the public was already awash in conspiracy theories and then in an attempt to kill the speculation the royals admitted the photo they released have been edited the official account tweeted, like many amateur photographers i occasionally experiment with editing. i want to express my apologies for any confusion the family photograph we shared caused. that only lead to more questions. why was the princess of wales doing her own crappy photo edits? why did no one else in the palace catz this? also, why?

maybe there's a legitimate explanation for all of this. but the global panic this one photo has caused is something of real concern. the rise of disinformation and misinformation paired with artificial intelligence has given rise to a new era that looks to upend our own political system in the united states. we have seen real evidence of how deep fakes are interfering with the election. fake robocalls from joe biden, fake joe biden telling voters to stay home in the state of new hampshire. widely circulated fake images of donald trump supported by black voters that was generated using ai. in the era of deep fakes. as one stanford ai researcher told the atlantic, you don't need to create the fake video for this tech to have a serious impact. you just point to the fact that the tech exists, and you can impugn the beg i it of the

stuff that is real. and that is where the significant danger lies, and it is already happening. we are witnessing the unraveling of shared reality. as we all note, the royal photo debacle is nearly a look at our current moment where trust in both oregoning institutions and gate keeping organizations such as the mainstream press is low. this sensation has been building for some time and was exacerbated by the corrosive political lies of the trump era. we're going to talk about what the end of shared reality means for the future of our democracy coming up next. breathing claritin clear is like... (♪♪) is he? confidently walking 8 long haired dogs and living as if he doesn't have allergies? yeah. fast relief of your worst allergy symptoms, like nasal congestion. business. it's not a nine-to-five worst proposition.toms,

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new ways of catching up on their favorite sport. is this real? that is the question millions of people had to ask themselves this week about this image, published by one of the oldest institutions in the western world, the british monarchy.

as technology improves, people's ability to discern fact from fiction has worsened. the scandal around the crown suggests public trust once shaken can just disappear entirely. in a new article for the atlantic, they call this moment an end of shared reality. he writes, "for years, researchers and journalists have warned that deep fakes and generative-ai tools may destroy any remaining sleds of reality. experts have reasoned that technology might become so good at conjuring synthetic media that it becomes difficult for anyone to believe anything they didn't witness themselves. the royal portrait debacle illustrates that this era isn't forthcoming, we're living in it." joining me now is brian tyler, host of the no live podcast and msnbc contributor. brian, thank you so much for being here tonight. i'm super eager to hear your thoughts on this. >> thanks for having me. >> not what is going on with kate middleton though, our thoughts are with her, wherever she is. just the impact of a sort of

seismic cultural event like this in terms of the broodier question of public trust and how damaging you think it is even outside the u.k., even here in america? >> yeah, i mean if you look at for example robocalls, the biden robocalls. if you look at the ai generated images of donald trump surrounded by african american voters. obviously they have the short- term impact of accomplishing what those ai generated images or manipulated, you know, elements of those things are actually doing. so it has that benefit first of all. but more insidiously, republicans get the added benefit of shaking our faith in the reality of everything that we don't know what's real, we don't know what's fake. we don't know what joe biden said, for example, or donald trump said or what they didn't say. because i think once we lose faith in the system, once people more broadly lose faith in that system, they just check out. so that's what trump and republicans want. this is the steve bannon model

of flooding the zone, which i'm sure you are intimately familiar with. but republicans want a political space that feels so inaccessible and so dirty and manipulated and so broken that who would want to get involved? and that cynicism that they are gendering here really does correlate for republicans message of american carnage and fear and dysfunction. so this is all a coordinated strategy and it will come from the top down. you know, you've heard the expression of the fish rots from the head and that is what we're seeing here. >> yeah, i think one of the hallmarks is that people are losing faith in institutions, right? and you have already heard the cry of fake news. it really feels like this is the next prong in that strategy, which is anything that trump and his supporters don't like on television that it is fake tv, and it is a very concrete reality of that, right? the lincoln project came out with this ad and let's play it first. this san ad from the lincoln project. >> hey, donald, we noticed something more and more people are saying it. you're weak. you seem unsteady.

you need help getting around. and wow. >> that is really it. >> are you sure you don't have dementia? >> and so that is an add from the lincoln project. in response to it, trump says on truth social, the lincoln project and liberals are using ai in their fake television commercials in order to make me look that bad. this feels like the next front, right? if you're presented with visual evidence that doesn't seem favorable to your candidate and your candidate is donald trump, just call it fake. i wonder how effective you think that will be more broadly. >> i think it is going to be effective for the people who want, you know, who want to believe him. that's what he'll do. everything is just as convenient as they want to make it. so in this case if donald trump sees something that's, you know, in his own words, which is obviously not going to be flattering. if he wants to write it off, then he has that as an excuse or a fallback. he could claim it's an ai generated image. by the way, that's a task of how ridiculous the things he

says are that he even knows that, that he has to claim what he said was fake. that's kind of the biggest tell of all. >> do you feel like, brian, there is a way to put the tooth paste back into the tube? can you rebuild trust in the 21st century? i ask that as someone genuinely hopeful about integrity? >> i think it is going to take a lot of digital media literacy, which i don't know we have right now, which is clear that we don't have right now. but it is also the reason i think that what you do is so important, what i try to do on a daily basis is so important. and that's to kind of arm people with accurate information. just having this segment right here where you let them know what's happening is a testament to that. it kind of shows why it is so important. it arms people with the knowledge that this kind of stuff is happening. all you can do is just continuously, you know, pelt people with the truth over and over and over again. hopefully it has something of