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tv   The Reid Out  MSNBC  March 28, 2024 4:00pm-5:00pm PDT

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tonight on "the reidout" -- >> and i certainly have policy disagreemented with the biden administration. i know the nation can survive bad policy.
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we can't survive a president who is willing to torch the constitution. >> liz cheney's stark warning about a second trump presidency as trump works feverishly to get his criminal and civil cases thrown out. also tonight, getting the band back together. former president barack obama joins president biden and former president clinton for an historic fund-raiser that is happening right now. and with immigration a top election issue, the baltimore bridge disaster points to the critical and sometimes dangerous work being done by immigrants in america. and we begin tonight with a history making gathering of the presidents club. as we speak, there is a one of a kind event happening right across the street from where i'm sitting at this moment at new york's famed radio city music hall. i should note that outside the hall, on sixth avenue, a massive crowd of protesters has been growing, playing music and chanting for nearly two hours.
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protest seems to be focused on the issue of gaza. inside radio city music hall, president biden and former presidents barack obama and bill clinton are joining forces for a star-studded fund-raiser with the shared mission of defeating donald trump. the biden campaign released behind the scenes photos from a podcast interview earlier today. it's a remarkable enough feat to have three presidents together at the same time and outside of washington, d.c. a rare gathering of members of a club so exclusive you cannot join unless you have been elected by a majority of the american people or, well, actually, a majority of the electoral college. there have been just 46 members in all of u.s. history. this big show of democratic party unity will bring together three of the four living democrats to hold the office of president. although it's fair to say if jimmy carter were in better health, he would probably be there with them. he's been in hospice care for more than a year. and despite political differences, the formers are
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also friendly with republican former president george w. bush. but that very exclusive club lacked one notable living former president because no matter what, you are not welcome in the presidents club if you have tried to overthrough the government. so naturally, donald trump lives in a sort of exile from this exclusive group. tonight's epic fund-raiser reunites the dynamic duo of barack and joe, a big f'ing deal to use a bidenism, for a powerful celebration of democracy. but it's more than just that. it also boosts a crucial tool in the democrats' arsenal in keeping trump from destroying democracy. namely money. thousands of people who braved the chilly rainy new york city weather and scooped up the ticket that started at the low end at $225 a pop, are expected to attend the event that includes stephen colbert, queen latifah, lizzo, ben flatt, and lea michele, plus mindy kaling hosting.
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it's historic in terms of the actual fund-raising, expected to raise more than $25 million, that's $5 million more than trump and the rnc raised in all of the month of february. it adds to president biden's already huge fund-raising advantage with the combined sum of contributions to the biden campaign and the dnc last month, more than doubling that of trump and the rnc. perhaps maga voters aren't quite as eager to pay off trump's legal bigs as lara trump suggested. you need money to run a functional campaign. all of this comes at a time when the narrative that donald trump is running away with the election, is running away itself. polling this week from bloomberg and morning consult show president biden gaining ground against trump in a head-to-head matchup in six out of seven key swing states with a slight lead in wisconsin and ties in michigan and pennsylvania. and narrowing the gap in arizona, nevada, and north carolina. the results are one the margin of error. the good vibes in tonight's
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unity from democrats makes for kwie a contrast with the other side. that entity is not even really a political party at this point. its arer more like the church of donald trump llc because it's officially devoted to finally and spiritually worshiping trump and putting what's left of the party apparatus all in on a potential felon who is pretending to be jesus, hawking trump bibles during holy week of the most sacred week of the year for christians. despite the descent into madness, you have some sane voices in the republican party who are stating the obvious, including liz cheney, who continues to sound the alarm about the dangers of trump and is taking her message on the road. she drew enormous crowds in des moines last night, in her remarks. she said what's happening in the republican party is dangerous. she denounced trump's legal efforts to punt his federal january 6th election interference trial until after the presidential election. >> it cannot be the case that a
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president of the united states can attempt to overturn an election and seize power and that our justice system is incapable of holding a trial, of holding him to account before the next election. >> joining me now is jelani cobb, dean of the university school of journalism and staff writer for the new yorker, and michael steele, former rnc chair, cohost of the weekend on msnbc and host of the michael steele podcast. i want to show this video. this is president biden and former president obama getting off air force one. here it is in new york today. that is quite a scene, right? i mean, just tell me your thoughts on three -- this is two of the three, three presidents in one space in new york city. >> well, you know, the interesting thing about this is when you see an array of presidents like that, they're usually kind of summoning the
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gravitas of the office. when you saw george bush and bill clinton and barack obama in that dialogue after january 6th, you know, when you see or the passing of an important statesman or stateswoman, those kind of things, when you really want to -- >> barbara bush, the funeral, they were all there. >> when you see the three of them here, you can say oh, okay, this is a dnc thing, or it's quite an achievement to get all them on the same page for that. but make no mistake. this is not just about fund-raising. this is about that same sort of thing where you summon all of the weight and gravitas of the office because you believe you actually are confronting a threat worthy of that level of presence, of the chief executives. so that's i think the subtext there. sure, fund-raising, they're going to bring in a ton of cash. but that's not all this is about.
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>> and it's also about the contrast, because you do need cash. cash helps, money helps. they're going to have $25 million, and again, joe biden doesn't have to spend that on legal fees. it's not being siphoned off to go toward lawyers. but i think to jelani's point, it's just the fact that joe biden can gather former presidents to himself. the fact that he can gather a celebrity presence to himself. these are things that whatever else donald trump can do, he can gather marjorie taylor greene to himself, he can't do this. >> yeah, you know, i'm sitting here looking at this, and realizing, we have got one former living president in donald trump. that's what we got. and you sit there and say, hmm, what do you do with that? george bush is not coming to an event for donald trump. george bush is not going to get
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out there and bring a celebrity cadre and donors to donald trump. and that speaks volumes about this moment for the republican party. when the former president who led this party is not a factor on behalf of donald trump in his effort to regain the white house. and there's a reason for that. and it's not just, oh, he's a rino. it is substantively the point both you and jelani are making about summoning the power of the office. galvanizing that image for the country in a way that solidifies the reality and the power and the influence, but most importantly, the importance of the presidency as we understood it growing up. right? and donald trump is all about
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tear all that ish down because he doesn't like it, because it requires of him something he cannot summon within himself. and that's discipline, focus, presidential temper, he's just a whacked out two-bit carnival barker who happened to luckily wind up in the right place at the right time to become president. even his biographers and his supporters know, he didn't expect to become president. that tells us a lot. it should tell his supporters a lot. but more importantly, it should tell the rest of the country a lot about what their priorities should be when it comes to salvaging us away from a donald trump and yes, as liz cheney said, she and i have profound differences with this president on policy. and i am very happy to have that debate when he's re-elected this november. >> right, and the thing is, you know, only 46 people have ever been president of the united states. they have been a grab bag of
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decent men, very evil men, woodrow wilson, rotten men, people who were, you know, people like eisenhower who were war heroes. people like human who one can question his conduct, but he finished a war. donald trump stands apart from them and not just apart from the republicans. there's something sort of nationally humiliating about the idea that, you know, i think people during the '80s when i was in high school, people used to mock the idea we had an actor as president. donald trump is beneath an actor. he was a pretend billionaire who is maybe now going to be a billionaire because he's going to sell his stupor truth social for a billion, who made it on a reality show, yet he commands a religious cult. so he's a part in every single way. there's never been a president that commands a religious cult. george w. bush came close if you saw jesus camp. it was close. this is so odd. they worship him. >> here's an interesting thing, kind of historical reference.
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in democracy in america, they talk about the most astounding thing about a president and the way that a president is different than a monarch is with a monarchy, people grovel before the king. with a presidency, the president grovels before the people. the actual authority is with the populous, and you recognize that inversion. that's what he says is the amazing thing about american democracy. you can disagree with all the presidents. we can spend the rest of the night critiquing these presidents on many levels. there are lots of people who are democrats who have issues with barack obama, issues with bill clinton, issues with joe biden, so on. all of them in one way or another recognized the importance of the power of the people being superior to them as individuals. that's where you find the distinction in donald trump, who never governed as if there was anything more important than himself, certainly not the
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particulars of his egotistical demands or desires or whatever. so that is all of the things we're talking about stem from that fundamental dissonance to be occupant of line with all of those dynamics we talk about in his predecessors as president. and the one last thing is that we always count presidents, we count grover cleveland twice. nonconsecutive. you're right. but the other thing about it, i think about these three presidents inside of that building across the street, michael, is that there's a protest outside. and in all three of their presidents, there were protests outside at some point. i remember, i'm old enough to remember during president obama's tenure, right wingers used to gather with firearms outside of places where he was to try to menace him with guns. and he didn't sic the army on them or try to have them shot.
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donald trump is a president who has said he would sic the military on people who were doing that. he would snatch those people off the street because they were protesting for gaza, and he would deport them out of the country or he would have them shot. that's a difference. you know, that's a difference that you can't even compare him to even george w. bush, who i have deep disagreements with. he's the one president of the 45, we have to have a historian on the set to make corrections, but this one guy would have those people deported or shot. >> it is profoundly important, what you just said, for the reason that what pulls all of that together is the man who says he wants to be a dictator. and a dictator does that. and what i hope people have come to appreciate after donald trump has said that and reiterated it over and over again, that come january next year, the day after his -- if he god forbid should
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be inaugurated the next president, and there are protests because of that, what do you think donald trump is going to do? do you think you'll be able to freely assemble as these protesters are outside radio city music hall, speaking their minds and gathering as they are allowed to do under the eighth amendment, exercising free speech as they're able to do under the first amendment? what do you think donald trump's response would be? we saw what he did with lafayette park. just because he wanted to make the point that he was in charge. and he wanted -- he ordered police to push peaceful protesters out of the way. to bully them. and to run over there. and so when he's back in that office, you need to understand what a man says he wants to be a dictator, what that means for your freedoms. so yeah, you can disagree with joe biden on gaza. you can be pissed because you didn't get the, you know, this or that policy through.
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but you'll be able to gather in lafayette square, at radio city music hall in 2025, '26, '27, and protest that. that is not a guarantee from the man who says he wants to be a dictator. you need to really process that and get over, you know, whatever is ailing you right now because i'm telling you, i would rather be at a protest under joe biden than to be worried about someone knocking on my door and pulling me out of my house or arresting me because i am protesting a policy under donald trump. >> or being shot, which is what donald trump loves to say. it's one of his favorite phrases. he would like people who are doing protests like the one outside this building to be shot. >> concentration camps. >> that's what he's said. when people tells you who they are, you should believe them. jelani cobb, michael steele, thank you both very much. up next on "the reidout," delay, delay, delay. donald trump is desperate in
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doing the most to get all of his cases thrown out or at least delayed until after the election. "the reidout" continues after this. okay y'all we got ten orders coming in... big orders! starting a business is never easy, but starting it eight months pregnant... that's a different story. i couldn't slow down. we were starting a business from the ground up. people were showing up left and right. and so did our business needs the chase ink card made it easy. when you go for something big like this, your kids see that. and they believe they can do the same. earn unlimited 1.5% cash back
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that's wall-to-wall wifi on the xfinity 10g network. . if at first you don't succeed, try, try again. that appears to be the motto for trump's legal teams as they continue their desperate attempts to try just about anything at this point to get the numerous cases against their client thrown out. including citing presidential
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immunity, the legality of the statutes, and as we saw this morning in georgia, their attempts to throw out the whole fulton county case on the grounds of the first amendment. >> i don't think there's any question that statements, comments, speech, expressive conduct that deals with campaigning or elections has always been found to be at the zenith of protected speech. the only reason it becomes unprotected in the state's opinion is because they call it false. >> well, they were false. but that is not the only reason why it's not protected by the first amendment. here is the prosecution's response. >> it's not just that they were false. it's not that the defendant has been hauled into a courtroom because the prosecution doesn't like what he said. these statements are part of criminal conduct that is larger than just the false statement on its own. >> mind you, the same first amendment challenges were made by two of trump's former
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codefendants in that case and they were unsuccessful, and trump's lawyers tried the same argument in the federal january 6th case, which also failed. once again, this brings us back to what has been trump's real goal, to delay the start of any of the trials until after the november election. rinse, repeat. however, the new york hush money trial is presently the only one that he has failed to delay any further with the judge saying it will start on tax day, april 15th. as a result of having the audacity to not let trump play his delay games anymore, judge juan marshawn is facing trump's wrath and he's targeting the judge's daughter once again, including in a post that names her. while neither the judge nor his family are covered under the judge's recently imposed gag order on the trial, we could see that coverage expanded. joining me is andrew weissmann, former senior member of the mueller probe, and msnbc legal analyst.
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andrew, i cease to be able to be surprised, except that donald trump is now literally making up a story about judge marchan's daughter, posting about it. railing about it, naming her by name. and there's still nothing anyone can do to stop it? >> it actually is something that could be stopped. there could be the gag order could apply to both the judge and the judge's family. and this is one where as a matter of grace, the judges have not imposed the gag order as to themselves. it reminds me when amy berman jackson, roger stone had posted a picture with cross hairs next to her, and she said, you couldn't find another photo that didn't have that there? and judges, i think, bend over backwards, but it will be interesting to see whether judge marchan does expand it, but i would just like to step back to, it is true that you see this and
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you think, it's just donald trump. it's just donald trump. more of the same. it is really important not to just normalize this. i mean, so many people talk about sort of predicting what would a trump 2.0 administration be, and should we really think he's going to be a dictator and what will happen. and my response to that is you can look right now at what he's doing and saying, and for people who are fair minded, i would say what do you say about somebody who attacks the daughter of a judge? >> that's right. >> i mean, is there no depth to which he will not descend? it's so important to not get inured to what this is. >> the bottom line is the reason he's attacking judge marchan and his family is the same reason he attacks jack smith. they won't stop prosecuting him and he can't delay the trials anymore. he's found a way to even the
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delay the georgia trial. they literally went after fani willis' relationship that had nothing to do with the case. that did delay it. this is the one case he can't stop. he knows it's coming and therefore he's trying to personally destroy this man's family. >> just remember what we're talking about. he will be given his day in court. this is not, he's not being nailed up against a cross. >> although he does claim he's jesus. >> he's doing the whole, i am god, i am suffering for you. he is being given what every defendant is given, and as you said, more so. >> much more. >> and he's getting for the sense that the state has its day in court, simultaneously, he has his day in court. he'll be able to defend himself. he has excellent counsel. he'll be able to cross-examine, put on witnesses. >> he could be acquitted. >> exactly. this is really somebody saying, you know what, i'm not acting the way somebody who is innocent, who wants to clear his name.
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he's saying i would rather have nobody find out what the facts are because i would rather engage in spin. he's getting due process in our court system and he's basically saying i'm running against all that. >> the reality is that it is not just the defendant who has a right to a speedy trial. the american people, we are the plaintiff who also has a right to a speedy trial, and what he's saying is you can't try me at all. that's dictator talk. >> absolutely. by the way, you know who has said that it is the public who has a right to a speedy trial? in the latest -- the most recent supreme court case on that was decided and written. >> don't tell me, scalia. >> almost. justice alito. >> oh, come on. >> so the point is, all of us, everyone who is watching this has a right to this public trial. the trial that is finally going to happen in april 15th, where everybody gets their day in court. just to be clear, the state and the defendant, it's something we all are entitled today.
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>> what donald trump's fundamental argument is, and they're using all these tactics. it almost doesn't matter what the individual arguments are at this point. it's just to throw an appeal in or some way to get more adjudication and the grinding system gives them the opportunity to do it. but the bottom line is he does not feel that any judge, state or federal, has the right to put him on trial for anything. >> right. that is autocracy versus the rule of law. >> a dictator. >> that is what is on the ballot. i mean, that extreme, the reason you have liz cheney saying, you know, i can get over policy differences, because this is about democracy and what it means to have a rule of law country. and not. >> and the reality is, folks like me who i fundamentally disagree with everything liz cheney believes in, i'm on team cheney at this point because she and i agree on something fundamental. this is a democracy where every person, if you commit a crime, you have the right to your day in court, and then if you're
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innocent, you have the right to be acquitted. donald trump has not gotten to the point where he can accept that he even must stand before the court. and the personal attacks on this judge's daughter, who has nothing to do, she's not putting him on trial. at this point, let's just say they added him to the gag order. we go back to the same question i have asked you 400 times. do they put him in jail? they won't. >> the answer is you could and they won't. just to bring it back to your first segment, there's a reason that you are not seeing george bush campaigning for donald trump. i mean, it goes to this idea of what is fundamentally at stake. it is not normal. you do not have a traditional republican viewing this as normal. the reason you have i'm sure both of us were not sitting there going liz cheney is who we believe in in terms of policy, but she, her father, the president that her father was the vice president for, all
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actually operate within a construct that we agree on, because that's what it means to be american. we can have lots and lots of differences in that system. and that's fine, that's what we signed up for. we did not sign up for this. >> we sure didn't. andrew weissmann, always a pleasure. let's just hope we make it through the january 1st in one piece as a country. coming up, the migrants who tragically died in baltimore's bridge collapse are a stark reminder that while republicans denigrate them without immigrants, without migrants, this country's economy would literally collapse. and that's up next. do you own a lot of bras,
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after the devastating collapse of the francis scott key bridge in baltimore this week, many conservative voices insisted that it could not have been just an accident. cpac chairman matt schlapp suggested it was caused by drug-addled workers. conspiracy theory advocate lara logan claimed it was a terrorist attack, and fox business anchor maria bartiromo said the problem could be migration. >> the ship involved in the collapse of the bridge is 948 feet long, called the dali, a singaporean flag container, but
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you have been talking a lot about the potential for wrongdoing or potential for foul play given the wide open border. >> these grotesque accusations are part of a rightward shift in america where the majority of our problems are laid at the feet of people republicans claim have broken into the country like burglars to steal jobs and money from real americans. what they fail to acknowledge is foreign labor has fueled the american economy for generations. millions of jung african men and women kidnapped and transported to this country and forced to become america's most efficient labors were sold by property, bred like cattle with a single task of planting and picking cotton, cultivating rice and other crops, herding cattle and building the grand homes that define america. the profits from cotton alone propelled the u.s. into one of the leadest economies in the world by the 19th century and made the south america's most prosperous region until the
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civil war. after which, the wealth of the country shifted north, to the railroad men and the industrialists. with that came the 15,000 forgotten chinese migrants who helped build the western portion of america's transcontinental railroad in the late 1800s. they were paid less than american workers and lived in tents while white workers were given accommodations in train cars. these people emigrated to the country because there was a labe shorrage that threatened the railroad's completion. they helped make it happen. in the east, it was roughly 10,000 irish immigrants who helped build the eastern section of that railroad. irish immigrants also helped build a number of america's key canals like the erie canal, because few locals would work for the low wages that the newly arrived irish would. during world war ii, this country created an agreement called the bracero program, that sought labor for millions of mexican men to work legally in the united states on short-term
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labor contracts. these agreements addressed a national agricultural labor shortage, brought on by the great migration of black plantation workers out of the south. but cheap labor kept and continues to keep being reproduced through migration. this country was literally built by unwilling and willing migrant hands. and they have always been met with disdain. we use their labor and propertily targeted them with stereotypes and anti-immigration laws to stop them bringing their wives and families. there was a chinese exclusion act which restricted immigration into the united states. there was the know nothing party which made anti-irish immigration its main agenda, and then eisenhower's racist mass deportation program offensively called operation wetback, which forcibly deported nearly 2 million immigrants. a program that donald trump has promised to resurrect if he's elected which could cripple the
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economy. some estimate that it would cost the federal government nearly $900 billion in lost revenue over ten years. and would immediately reduce the nation's gross domestic product. whether you like it or not, immigrants continue to build america and make it run. according to the american -- the restaurant industry, an estimated 2 million workers are foreign born. immigrants comprise a significant majority of form workers and many of them are undocumented. according to the national association of home builders, more than 31% of the people working in construction trades are immigrants. baltimore harbor is a perfect encapsulation of that american ethos. it's a massive business hub bringing together people from a diversity of countries like the victims of the bridge collapse, who were all immigrants from mexico and other parts of central america. and who came to this country for a chance at a better life. on tuesday morning, alejandro hernandez fuentes, dorian
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cabrera, jose lopez, and a sixth unidentified colleague plunged to their deaths while fixing potholes so americans could drive to work. ship your packages, and deliver your food. after the break, we'll talk more about who these men were and what they sacrificed for our economy.
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those were the siblings of maynor suazo who was about to turn 39. they're also victims of tuesday's bridge collapse. they were fathers, husbands, brothers, and cousins. they were part of baltimore's vibrant fabric. a total of eight people were working a grueling overnight shift repairing potholes and who were reportedly on a break when the bridge collapsed. incredibly, two of the workers survived the plunge. one was hospitalized and one refused treatment and walked away. their colleagues made the greatest sacrifice. joining me now is mustauvo
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torres, an advocacy organization for immigrants and working class people in maryland. two of the workers were active in the group. thank you for being here. i know you have been in touch with some of their families. tell me about the men who died? >> thank you for the opportunity. miguel luna left at 6:30 p.m. monday evening for work. and since has not come home. he's a husband, a father of three, and has called maryland his home for over 19 years. he helped the community. manuel sandoval, a second cousin, immigrated from honduras over 17 years ago. and he alongside his brother, carlos, were active members of casa as well. i remember carlos describing him, you know, he was always so
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full of joy and brought so much humor to our family. he was a husband and a father of two. and actually, you know, his family was getting out for his birthday celebration in april 27th. this is extraordinary people, extraordinary immigrants that are in maryland and all around the nation making a great difference to this great country. >> you know, talk about why these men come here, because there's this really, to me, despicable racist and ugly attempt on the right to paint these men as essentially burglars coming in, stealing into the country to commit crimes. what you're showing me and what all of us experience who have ever had any construction project done anywhere we have lived or worked know that the men who come here from central america, from these countries, they're leaving sometimes hellholes and they're incredible.
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>> in the '80s, in the '90s, even right now, that's one reason, and number three, right now, that is increasing the issue of the environment. you know, because people don't have a place where they can produce. that is the reason why we see thousands and thousands of men and women and families arriving to this country. and they're going to continue because that is the reality of immigration for many, many years. >> and the thing is that the jobs that a lot of the times these migrants, men and women are doing, is really arduous work, whether it's in the agricultural industry, the meat
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packing industry. talk about the way they improve the economy. no one -- who is going to get on that bridge in the middle of the night and repair those potholes? these guys. they're willing to do it. >> you know, these construction workers are absolutely essential. they work on the shift to repair bridges and roads that millions of people use everyone day to get to work. through the cities and towns. they are just two examples of the millions of people who are doing that, around 3 million immigrants doing that every single day. every single day, building and protecting our communities. i just want to say something that is very, very important, which is that both of them, as many millions of people, miguel and maynor are building bridges to connect communities. no building walls. today and always, we honor them and their sacrifice. >> gustavo, thank you so much
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for being here and allowing us to know these families better. please pass along our deepest condolences to these families. we thank them for the work they do to make our country better. thank you. >> to my viewers, if you want to learn more on how you can help the families, go to our blog at msnbc.com/reidout blog. >> we'll talk with a former state department official who resigned this week saying she could not work for a government directly enabling what could be a genocide in gaza. we'll be right back.
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question. you made the decision to resign quietly to the public. tell me why. >> initially i was not leading to do so publicly. as you mentioned, and was only briefly at the state department just for a year. but when i told colleagues i was planning to resign for gaza they said please speak for us. many, many people are -- -- public because so many people are so shocked and mortified by what's going on and they are trying to do it they can on the
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inside to change the policy. resigning and going public about it seemed to be one of the only options left. >> having been at state, what about your experience there, what have you seen from the inside that you objected to so strongly that you felt you could not work there anymore? >> in particular it was that we are not upholding u.s. laws. that there are laws against providing weapons to governments that commit gross violations of human rights and block u.s. humanitarian aid. these laws are not being upheld. i think this is not only having obviously a devastating effect on the people of gaza but this is also devastating for america, for this administration, which came in claiming to want to reestablish america's leadership. claiming to uphold the rule of
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law, to live in international order. i think for myself and other colleagues who believe in the mission of the state department and believe in the values that america claims to uphold, these decisions were -- it became untenable to stay with this administration. >> to the changes and the biden administration position including abstaining and allowing a u.n. resolution to go through which did call for a cease-fire and having the ship docked off of gaza, providing food, air dropping food, did those changes and shifts in the biden administration impact your decision at all and what do you make of them? >> i welcome these minor shifts. the overarching policy has not changed. the u.s. can use to fast-track massive amounts of weapons to israel. and they're not using american leverage to insist that aid to
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get in through ground roots. a plane can carry 2 to 3 tons of aid and a truck, a single truck carried 20 times and there are hundreds of trucks waiting at the border to get food and medicine to these people. the peer that the administration is building is largely a pr stunt. they are now dealing with a lot more public pressure and this simply should use their leverage and insist that israel have to allow adequate aid. in terms of the u.n. security resolution, it's encouraging but then the biden administration came out immediately and said it was not binding. so i hope that this is perhaps the beginning of more of a shift, but nothing makes a difference to the people of gaza being bombed continually
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and starving. >> my last question, the controversial term genocide. do you believe what is happening in gaza is genocide? >> and another term genocide is technical, have a specific to meet the definition, so i rely on experts. but based on my understanding, i'd say yes, the israeli government is trying to read erase this population from this land in gaza but also the treatment of palestinians in the west bank. unfortunately, the current israeli government, the far right wing government of netanyahu is engaged in actions that are really beyond humanitarian law, that violate the laws of war. furthermore, there are is really his hostages are inside cross to -- gaza and the government is not prioritizing them but continuing to drop the bombs. >> i wish we had more time, but we are out of time. thank you so much for being here. we appreciate you speaking out there that's

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