aviators, biden and obama and clinton did this. >> by the way, it is the biggest room in the world. the 6,000 people. there is nothing like being in that hall. it is always bigger than you remember it is. >> it is a stage i don't think we will see another one like this. this is something i actually ran into julie chavez rodriguez. i said how do you top this? she said it is all about momentum. this is what they have try today do to build momentum leading into the general election fight. >> i cannot thank you enough for fighting out of the security. longest trip ever. thank you mike. that is the last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts right now. tonight, trump's new bid to get his georgia rico case tossed. claiming his 2020 lies were

protected by the first amendment. it provided a united front to keep joe biden in the white house. political megadonor and linked in founder reed hoffman on the choice we face in november and how ai could affect the election as the 11th hour gets underway on this thursday night. good evening everyone. i'm amon in for stephanie ruhle. we are 222 days away from the presidential election. today, one of donald trump's attorneys argued that charges against him in the georgia election interference case should be tossed because of the first amendment. trump's team says all the actions in those charges amount to protective political speech. this is a move that already failed in the federal election interference case. it is also part of the trump strategy to file as many

motions as possible to delay the actual trials. and the busy legal schedule is helping him. trump's team informed aileen cannon that they have to be rescheduled because they conflict with the hush money trial in new york. meanwhile, trump's allies have legal issues of their own. jeffrey clark pleaded the fifth in a disciplinary disbarment hearing. the man trump wanted to take over the justice department in the run up to the january 6th insurrection. because clark wanted to launch an investigation based on a conspiracy theory about the 2020 election being stolen. meanwhile, trump is running again for the highest office in the land. liz chaney, one of the only republicans to consistently stand up to trump spoke clearly about what she thinks will happen if in fact trump succeeds in november. watch. >> he will appoint people who

will do his bidding. he will appoint people and if they are nervous about doing his bidding he will offer them pardons. and he won't leave office. he tried once not to leave office and he will have no incentive to guarantee a peaceful transfer of power and leave office if he is elected again. i have policy disagreements with the biden administration. i know the nation can survive bad policy. we can't survive a president who is willing to torch the constitution. >> and there are very real consequences for what she is talking about. you will remember of course, colorado was one of the states where people filed a lawsuit to keep trump off the ballot on the grounds that he helped to incite an insurrection. that effort was rejected by the supreme court earlier this month. colorado secretary of state

jena griswold supported that. since the start of the lawsuit, the number of serious threats against her has increased more than 600%. she said quote this big lie from 2020 has morphed into a big threat. with that, let's bring in our leadoff panel. hugo lowell. an msnbc contributor and former u.s. attorney joyce vance who spent 25 years as a federal prosecutor. good to have all three of you with us. joyce, let me begin with you. and what we are waiting for in georgia. anything stick out to you in today's hearing especially about how the judge might handle things going forward? >> well look. the law is pretty clear in this regard. the law says that the first amendment doesn't protect the guy who walks into the bank and says stick them up. people use words to commit crimes. and so, donald trump is charged

not with the speech itself but rather with the conduct that involves committing the crimes and sometimes he spoke in furtherance of those crimes. i think judge mcafee will dispense of this very quickly. a similar motion was dismissed in washington dc. >> one of our two leading presidential candidates has so many ongoing court cases they are delaying each other and he is actually using that as an argument to delay each case. we still have seven months until election day. how confident if at all are you that our institutions like the courts and the election systems can actually handle the weeks and months ahead with the stress testing donald trump is putting them under? >> right. i mean this is this big question. have our institutions held? have the guardrails held? and look. i mean the truth is he has all

these criminal counts and yet maybe only one trial is going to happen before the election. so that is in my mind not a great time. so i do think that has worked for him. delay, delay, delay. i really believe truly that this whole candidate trump might work in a midterm. i just have trouble imagining that swing voters are going to love the candidate who is on trial for paying an adult film star. even if the case is a little bit unproven. >> jeffrey clark is going through a disbarment hearing. john eastman has been remitted

from disbarment. it is not like they are banned from having a big role in trump world and it seems that these guys are not going away so long as donald trump stays in the picture. these are architects of the political side of what he was trying to do on january the 6th. >> i think that's right. someone like john eastman can be disbarred. me is the kind of candidate that trump if i think if president would install in the white house as a senior adviser to give him the sort of advice he wants to hearment that has always been the mainstay of trump world. the people who survive are the ones who tell trump what he wants to hear. jeff clark is someone he has identified as a person he would want to install in a high position in the justice department. and if he were disbarred, that would preclude that route. if he escapes disbarment, this

is a good candidate to be the head one one of the doj's components. that is not what he is aiming for, but he might end up as the deputy attorney general. these are the people trump wants to surround himself with. and, i don't think disbarment necessarily will be an obstacle for trump world. >> as they think about who they will put in, in a second trump term, the republicans continue to push out the likes of liz cheney. they have turned against republicans like her and others. she is out here trying to sound the alarm. is she doing enough to prevent the outcome she is warning about other than simply talking about it at events and conferences? >> well she has a limited number of options. i'm listening to that and i'm thinking oh my god.

i agree with liz cheney. that is the first time and last time i have ever said that. but think about all the republicans afraid to go against trump. think about mitch mcconnell. right? powerful, wealthy, has security. refused to go against trump. all of these people who are just like it's not worth it. i'll just endorse. who cares? it's not worth the threats. and here is liz cheney doing a brave thing and there are not many republicans doing it. so good for her. i mean i hope there will be more. my fantasy is nikki haley will come out. i don't think that is likely. but you know, you will need a critical mass. then the generals who have a lot of criticisms. and i hope they will come out publicly and speak out. >> the more republicans that come out, nikki haley, the more

the republican version of trump world pushes them further out. and says they are traitors. it is not like they can get a footing and expand that footing. it is they shrink within the republican party and they become less as we have seen with others leaving the republican party in congress. >> you will never get that maga base. they are just too baked in. but can you pick off enough people on the side so you win the electoral college? i don't know. the question is we have to get those people back to democracy as we know it. >> and we'll see what happens with the republican party after 2024. an interesting thing, joyce, that liz talked about was the supreme court. >> i think it is very important the supreme court recognize what he is doing is a delaying tactic and the american people,

it cannot be the case. that a president of the united states can attempt to overturn an election and seize power and our justice system is incapable of holding a trial, of holding him to account, before the next election. that cannot be the case. >> it seems like that is what is going to happen. from a calendar perspective. regardless of how the decisions are made about any of his legal challenges that are working their way upright now. we are seeing trump working the justice system in realtime. is this how infinite resources can take advantage of the courts with the tactics of delaying and interjecting new ideas that do not seem applicable. >> trump seem to be in a category of one when it comes

to his ability to manipulate the court system. there are fair criticisms to be launched about how the citizen treats wealthier people as opposed to folks with appointed counsel. n this is about someone who baked the system. he has proven over and over again he is no longer entitled to that deference. the supreme court will hear court's case on april 25th. they will have two paths at that point in time. they can either continue to indulge him in delay and prove what liz cheney is saying. i find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with her here. but the court can either indulge trump or be prepared to rule very quickly after they hear arguments in this dais. it is not a tough case at this point in time. it is very clear that a former

president can't have absolute immunity to engage in any sort of criminal act. if that's the law, there is nothing that prevents joe biden from doing it. so we know what the result of this court case has to be. the only question is whether the supreme court will understand the urgency and issue a ruling in a timely way to let this case get back on track ahead of the election. and that window is closing. >> is it safe to say that the court or the supreme court revere the fact donald trump was the president more than he reveres the court system? in some extent they are giving him so much deference because he occupied this former position and they are giving him the benefit of the doubt.

>> i think the courts are thinking about how will a future president be treated? it is much like what we saw during the muller investigation. bob muller was steeped in institutional norms. he thought what does this look like when the next president is investigated? and very much an effort to preserve our democratic institutions and rule of law system. as you point out, donald trump has respect for none of that. donald trump is purely transactional. he is thinking at this point only about how he can save his own skin. how can he stay out of jail. so he is willing to manipulate a system trying to preserve itself. and that is why we see all the tension and frustration with the court. we can't let trump completely destroy the system. and that means that the courts have to walk a knife's edge here. >> we saw a small victory for someone who suffered because of

the lies. keri lake's lawyers say they will not dispute the charges but is the damage here already done? >> yeah, look. people like keri lake, she ran on a platform that the 2020 election was stolen. that is a message so deeply baked into the maga base now i don't know if there is any way for real trump fans to come back. all the election denialism that has manifested is that a lot of the country simply just doesn't believe that elections can be free and fair. and that they can be free or flawed. every time he goes on the stump has been to drill that message home. even if the defamation suit

succeeds, that is going to be a long time down the road. and the damage i think has already been done. >> so much damage. hugo, molly, thanks for joining us. joyce, stick around. we will check back in with you a little bit later. when we come back. president biden turns to some old friends for historic fund raising haul tonight. we have some of our friends on tap to break it all down for us and later. i want to take a closer look at the intersection of politics and ai during this consequential election year. g s consequential election year. ♪♪ why won't scout play with us anymore? he has something called osteoarthritis pain. it's joint pain that hurts him all the time. come on, scout. now, there's librela. the first and only once-monthly injection to control your dog's oa pain. veterinary professionals administering librela who are pregnant, trying to conceive,

or breast feeding, should take extreme care to avoid self-injection, which could cause allergic reactions like anaphylaxis. this is the best day of my life!

not all caitlin clarks are the same. caitlin clark. city planner. which could cause allergic reactions like anaphylaxis. just like not all internet providers are the same. don't settle. you want fast. get fast. you want reliable. get reliable. you want powerful. get powerful.

get real deal speed, reliability and power with xfinity. she shoots from here? that's kinda my thing.

just down the street, not too far away from where i am. presidents barack obama, bill clinton joined president joe biden for a record breaking fundraiser. the biggest haul for a political event, according to the biden campaign. it expands the president's already staggering $155 million campaign award chest. that is twice as much cash on hand as trump and the rnc currently have. nbc's white house correspondent mike was at the fundraiser and joins me now. mike. it is great to see you in

person. this was quite a historic event. it was kind of ground breaking in its format for a political event. you were there, what did you take away from it? >> only 45 men have served as presidents of the united states. we have three presidents and not one of them is going to court. the biggest one and probably the standout moment tonight obviously was gaza. you look out across the street. see how many protester theres were outside. and there were some inside. and they tried to disrupt the event add multiple points. it was barack obama, the obama biden relationship, biden defended president biden a lot. and that was what endeared him.

as they were continues to disrupt the event. obama said it is not enough, if you want to talkings you also have to listen. he said that it is one thing to have moral clarity but it is another thing to recognize these are not easy problems to solve. he said what only a president can say. this is not an easy seat. things president biden has tried to do. the complexity of what is still ahead. and that's the kind of president i want is somebody who is bringing his empathy, his wisdom to this situation. and the crowd ate it up. >> do you get a sense there was at all this contrast, there is this generational contrast between what a president obama represented and what president jobbing has talked about. but was there any sense from the biden campaign having these two stars, megastars of the

democratic party flanking the current president, could in any way backfire and just kind of reminding people of stark contrasts? >> the biden campaign recognizes they need all the help they can get. you talk about the ways in which they can help the president with real vulnerabilities. the biggest vulnerability he has is his age. he is 81. these are two former presidents younger than him who beat much older men when they ran for president. it was interesting to see them all on stage together. but they made light of age. president biden himself talking about donald trump's ideas are old and out of shape. so a little bit of red meat for the audience. >> speaking of the fourth president. he was also in new york. great to see you. thanks so much. for more, i want the bring

in donna edwards and david jolly. i will start with you. biden standing on stage with two younger former presidents ranked in an enormous amount of money. is this a sign that things are not as democrats feared? >> what happened is we had a state of the union message earlier this month. that helped to put aside the age question in a lot of respects. and what you saw are different elements of the democratic party coming together. supporting obviously the two presidents supporting president biden. whine dating with the democratic party. each of those parts the democrats will need in order to

win the election in november. >> biden has been taking more pointed shots at donald trump lately. particularly how cash poor his campaign is compared to joe biden's. talk to us about the importance of money at this point of the race and will these shots that joe biden is taking with the numbers that we are seeing today. $25million, have an impact on donald trump? >> yeah. look. i think they will and i think it is a broader indication of a campaign starting to fire on all cylinders raising money. targeting voters. but also in fine tuning a message. look, they don't have to play offense against donald trump. donald trump kind of projects his own image of criminality and culpability. so joe biden could just be focused on his domestic successes. his leadership on the world stage. but they are also including these on donald trump. and it is because despite

whatever somebody might have, favorable or unfavorable on either candidate, when they look at the contrast, it is very good for joe biden. and the biden camp knows that. so where does the money really make a difference? it makes a difference in those seven states that will likely decide the electoral college. you have to bake into donald trump's cash on hand. the fact that it might not even be spent fully on campaigns but legal expenses. the gap might be a lot larger than it actually looks like. joe biden's campaign is in a great spot to be six months out. >> where should that money go? how should the biden campaign put this money to use? >> the biden campaign has been running ads in a lot of the

states to try to move the needle. it is having impact in the national polls where the gap is slowly, slowly closing. the biden campaign is also, they announced they are opening up 300 or so offices all around the country. that is really important to have a presence in the state working from now, this long campaign stretch. between now and november. and to put that on the ground. and get the surrogates out speaking on behalf of the president. what you saw is the contrast that will go on the duration of this campaign. you have the three presidents on stage talking, raising money. running their campaign. biden is going all around the country. and you have the contrast of donald trump, on a golf course, in a courtroom, or, some place on truth social.

that is not a way to run a winning campaign and i think that the biden campaign is being able to count on using that extra cash to continue to get its message out. >> you don't think selling sneakers or bibles is an effective campaigning strategy? >> you know what? i think i'm not buying them. >> joking aside. let me ask you about the republicans here for a moment. they are not just facing a financial dilemma. trump is in a lot of problems. they are scrambling to organize early in mail in voting. and you know, trump has repeatedly disparaged. can they turn it around before november? can the rnc if they are not preoccupied with trump actually help turn out the vote for the republican base? >> it's true. there's a long way to go.

i got to tell you one of the least covered stories right now, republicans are worried. this is not where they thought they would be in the spring of this election year. they thought they would have joe biden being impeached and the economy would be in the tank. neither one of those were happening. the economic numbers are looking good. joe biden's numbers continue to improve. republicans have nothing to offer from their do nothing congress legislative achievements and when it comes to donald trump himself, he will likely face now a trial before november and for all of the legal maneuvers he is makeing to avoid other trials, he is sucking up all of their financial resources and telling republicans use the most reliable way to vote. mail in voting. republicans tonight are scared. they are worried. this is not where they thought they would be. they are having to reconsider. they thought they were going to win this in a walk away, now they are looking at a loss. >> and you are seeing that in

the messaging from trump. when he suggests the only way he lose is if this election is stolen. we have seen that before. a sign of desperation as well in his campaign. thank you. great to see you. when we come back, there's a lot of fear surrounding ai and what it could mean for the 2024 election. the political megadonor reed hoffman sits down with stephanie to talk about it when the 11th hour continues. the 11th hour continues.

there is plenty to worry about. maybe, it is the impact ai could have on the 2024 election. stephanie sat down this week with someone who thought about all of these things. reed hoffman has become a political megadonor. take a listen. >> i want to talk about the scariest most devastating most exciting most inspiring things out there today. which is artificial intelligence and politics. so, let's start with ai. tons of consumers are panicked about it. it could be a problem of like

okay, i'm trying to figure out this thing. like for example, a new mother, i have to figure out things. and it can help. it can help you lead your life. and, that is the thing to take to not listen to all of the kind of the chatter of. what is this big ai thing? it is a new technology thing. and go play with it yourself. and it can help you make decisions better. live better. work better. go get some experience with it. >> what about chapter 2? how worried are you? you are excited about ai. a lot of people are scared about it. you are also spending an enormous amount of time focused on the election, the democracy. tell us how you feel and why are you so involved? >> i have two strong feelings on this. one is obviously that biden doesn't get enough credit for the good stuff he has done. he has worked hard on the

climate. and yet while working hard on the climate, he raised our gas production to its maximum rate trying to help gas prices. like, he cares about the everyday american. he cares deeply. it's like one of the things in his bones. so he doesn't get enough credit for that. he is old, i they are both older. do you prefer older who cares about you and is wise or older who is demented? that gets the other strong feeling. trump is a candidate. here is a person who incited an insurrection. saying i want to pardon those people who are heros. killing police officers. and maybe give them jobs. and that is just one of the many things. he has been found guilty by

jury of sexual assault and slander on it. this isn't a democratic prosecutor et cetera. this is a jury of americans. and people should, this is part of what is enshrined in our constitution. if you are american and you believe in the constitution, it is a jury of our peers. so that kind of thing i think is very positive on biden. another hand, i think trump is essentially has been twice indicted and a criminal. >> then why do you think this race looks as close as it does? >> i think, look, i think our challenges to have people focus on the right issues, we have this distrust in different news eco systems. one of the things i loved about the dominion lawsuit against fox. you have on a commercial case, you had to reveal the text with

these various opinion people. the election was totally normal and fine in 2020. but we have to say something different only camera. that's not the system we should be living in. >> do you think the major few of the country knows what happened? fox news is across the street spying the same lieus they once werement they were talking about the bridge collapse in baltimore blaming immigrants. so the lies continue. >> i think part of what we have to do, for people in every media eco system try to figure out how to get the truth. what that means is ask yourself where you might have blind spots. look at them. i talk to people who support trump all the time. i say make the argument. here are my arguments. what are yours? who is the first to be strong

on china? okay. maybe he was the first to be strong on china. weigh that against promoting the insurrection and violence. trump is a complete train wreck and 100% of everything he does. it is only 95%. okay, fine. 5% is fine. no problem. but that 95% is disastrous. i walk the walk. i try to talk to people who disagree with me. and listen to their arguments. and i want fox and their show to do the same thing. >> do you think that will ever happen? >> i hope. >> i like that. one might say democrat reed you gave to nikki haley. >> i have heard that line before. look, what i care about is the

country. i have talk today a number of republicans at the time. the classic republican who cares about things like business, obviously, i'm a business person, too. but, this election is different. because it is about you know, kind of the rule of law. it is about democracy. it is about caring about the country, not about yourself. caring about the everyday people. >> but as a business person, you don't think that president biden is anti-business do you? >> not at all. and for example, when i spent hours talking to him. he said look, i need to understand this ai thing. what he says is what will it mean for the average american? is there anything i need to be doing to help the average american? he is curious. he asks me questions about it. i know you guys are building the stuff. how does it help business and industry? he wants to know that too. what will this mean for american business?

>> what's the one thing you have spent an enormous amount of money and time, educating yourself and now, others about what you think matters in the political landscape for people who aren't inspired about voting right now. what should they care about? >> part of the reason a lot of people say government doesn't work is because they don't pay attention to it when it is working. there's a lot of things as an american i'm thankful about living in this country. >> like what? >> i think we have barring a certain orange haired man trying to break it, we have a working rule of law system. we have one of the best education systems. i think the charter schools thing is not just good for

chatter schools. we believe in capitalism, causing everyone to be better. i think all of that is also stuff we benefit from. we benefit from a world order that has had unprecedented decades of peace because of the role america has played in leadership in the world. all of the that makes me proud to be an american. >> thank you. when we come back, sam bankman fried is sentenced to a quarter century behind bars. we break down his big day in court when the 11th hour continues. the 11th hour continues.

(psst! psst!) ahhh! with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily gives you long lasting non-drowsy relief. flonase all good. also, try our allergy headache and nighttime pills.

shipstation saves us so much time it makes it really easy and seamless pick an order print everything you need slap the label on ito the box and it's ready to go our cost for shipping, were cut in half just like that go to shipstation/tv and get 2 months free

today, the former poster boy for crypto currency sam bankman fried received a stiff prison sentence at a federal court in new york. we have the details from cnbc's kate. >> reporter: convicted of several criminal counts of fraud and conspiracy. today, sam bankman fried learned his fate. sentenced to 25 years in federal prison. just a couple of years ago, he was a young billionaire living in the bahamas running crypto exchange. exerting influence in washington and courting celebrity endorsements. then it came crashing down. >> it does appear they are filing chap already 11. >> customers left unable to

access their funds. he maintained he had not done anything wrong. >> i didn't ever try to commit fraud on anyone. >> reporter: but today in court, bankman fried was contrite. telling the judge he made selfish decisions adding it haunts me every day. i was the ceo of ftx, he said, i was responsible. the judge said there is a risk that this man will be in position to do something very bad in the future. and adding in his 30 years he has never seen a performance like bankman fried's trial testimony saying when he was not lying he was evasive. his parents solemn saying they are heartbroken and will continue to fight for their son. lawyers will appeal. >> i couldn't eat sleep. >> reporter: he lost $2 million when ftx imploded and he is waiting to get the money back.

>> i don't think it fully reflects the financial and emotional toll on customers. all right, former u.s. attorney joyce vance is back with us, prosecutors were looking of a sentence to 40 to 50 years. what do you make of the judge's decision here? >> reporter: the judge sentences to 25 years. which is a very solid sentence. in a white collar case. the sentencing guidelines here are typically driven by the dollar amount of the fraud. that combined with the fact one of the charges was money laundering is what permitted the judge to impose a sentence like this. without going all the way along with the government's request. the judge sets the sentence up to be affirmed on appeal. it doesn't lookout ragous. it is well within the guideline range. and because the amount, the dollar amount of the fraud is

so extraordinarilily, it's the sort of sentence an appellate court shouldn't have trouble with. >> and he will appeal. what leg does he have to stand on in the appeal process if any and how do you see that going? >> he has a tough road. this is in many ways a paper case and the judge did a good job when he sentenced of making very clear that he believed that there had been extensive perjury during the trial. he talked about another incident where the defendant emailed his general council and the judge said that looked to him like obstruction of justice. so when you tag all the evidence and look at the way the judge bent over backward to meticulously document the reason for his sentence, both the conviction itself and the

sentence looks solid on appeal. >> thank you very much. when we come back, how america's favorite past time is bringing baltimore together days after a tragic bridge collapse when the 11th hour continues. hour continues. like progress, but with 3x more nicotine than a pack of cigarettes - vapes increase cravings - trapping you in an endless craving loop. nicorette reduces cravings until they're gone for good.

u

how exciting is it to be here opening day? >> very exciting. >> what does it mean as someone from baltimore to have seen that bridge go down? >> devastate. >> after everything baltimore has been through the past couple of days with the bridge collapse, how important is opening day? >> it's great. everyone gets to come together and enjoy themselves and take their mind off all the bad things. >> it is lifting spirits. you know. make them forget that tragedy. and they'll be able to move on. >> one last thing before we go tonight. an emotional opening day in baltimore. just two days after the tragic collapse of the francis scott key bridge. the baltimore orioles honoring the victims before the home opener. there was a moment of silence. the flag was displayed in the

outfield. the maryland governor wes moore met with the orioles ownership group and cal ripkin jr. at camden yards and promised the city would see the bridge rebuilt. >> baltimore may get knocked down but it doesn't stay down. it getting back up. the reason i cam here today is i'm calling on everybody to do their part. in this game, nobody gets to sit on the sidelines. we need every single baltimoreian and we need every single marylander to join us in this work to rebuild this bridge and rebuild the city. this team reminds us what we are made of. the orioles give us hope and pride. the orioles remind us what it means to be maryland tough. and baltimore strong. together, again, we are going to have another reopening day.

and that will be the reopening of the francis scott key bridge. and you can bet on that. >> just hours ago, the federal government announcing $60 million would be released immediately for emergency work on the bridge. on that note, i wish you a good night. you can catch my show every weekend at 7:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. for all of our colleagues, thank you for staying up late. see you at the end of tomorrow. tonight on all in. >> they are taking away john eastman's law license which is outrageous. he is one of the best attorneys in the united states, perhaps in history. >> actual