a new week of testimony looms for donald trump. why a trump insider says the process is the punishment for the former president. plus, the author of this new piece explains how a tabloid publisher became a trump trial witness. a very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters. welcome to alex witt reports. another round of tornado devastation across parts of the midwest and the plains states overnight. oklahoma hit hardest with 35 tornadoes reported across that state in the small town of sulphur near oklahoma city. officials say the entire downtown was destroyed. several were hurt. this comes one day after more than 100 tornadoes ripped through six states.

14 million people are facing the risk of severe weather today with strong wind, large hail, possibly more tornadoes. we have a report coming up for you shortly. let's go now to donald trump's busy week ahead of the hush money trial. there is no hearing on monday. trump will be back in the defendant's chair tuesday. michael cohen's former banker will finish up testimony. no hearing wednesday, so trump will campaign in wisconsin and michigan and then be back in court sunday for his alleged gag order violations and the trial continues friday. here's a look at potential witnesses we can be taking the stand this week. michael cohen, stormy daniels, karen mcdougal, and hope hicks. also new today, unwavering support for trump from a staunch political ally. >> if he is convicted, you will still support him and vote for him?

>> absolutely. i think what's going on with donald trump, he's been prosecuted in manhattan, one of the deepest blue cities in the country. >> msnbc legal analyst and cohost of the podcast hashtag sisters-in-law, and former bronx new york assistant district attorney, now reporter covering the civil and criminal cases against trump. she has been at that courthouse all this week. as i welcome you both, the trial resumes tuesday, we three of trump having to show up and sit quietly while his accusers are brought before him. the washington post today quotes a source close to trump saying, the phrase around here is the process is the punishment. you expect to see any attempt from trump to adjust to his new challenge? >> so it's a great question,

alex, because the challenge ahead of donald trump is sitting through hours and hours of testimony as prosecutors build a case against him without being able to respond in any way. the question i think is whether he will be able to control himself. will he start with eye rolling or gesticulating? if so, the judge will certainly admonish them very sternly, probably outside of the presence of the jury, to make it stop. and looming over trump is a gag order hearing that will take place later in the week. >> are you hearing anything from your sources about which witness might be next? we suggested four earlier. what are you hearing? >> we don't know who is coming next. the way that the prosecutors approach this case will be putting on this bigger witness, david pecker, and then following up with witnesses that are important to the grand scheme improving their case, but are not as much of a bang

for your buck so to speak as pecker was at the time. i think they are really kind of giving the jury the bigger witnesses kind of spaced out in a way so they have the opportunity to really absorb the vast amount of testimonies the bigger witnesses may have. >> david pecker, he undoubtedly did some damage. he did not want the national enquirer associated, saying we already paid $30,000 to the doorman. we paid $150,000 to karen mcdougal, and i am not a bank. he also said he no longer wanted to be reimbursed for that mcdougal payment. you get the sense that he realized what his own exposure was and perhaps raised a red flag? >> yeah, look. david pecker is testifying pursuant to an agreement he will not be prosecuted. what he has to offer up with that agreement is going to hold and protect him is truthful

testimony. if he is caught lying, for instance, or had been caught on cross examination, then the deal would have been off and prosecutors could have gone after him. that was the dynamic here while he was on the stand, and prosecutors will be able to ask leigh not to the jury in a closing argument. you don't get to argue the law or point out to the jury the good points you are making when you have a witness on the stand. that all comes together in closing argument, and they certainly scored sums wrong point in terms of the elements of the crimes they need to establish and satisfy to the jury that they proved beyond a reasonable doubt during mr. becker's testimony. >> i just want you to remind viewers that there is a single perjury, joyce. so they all have to tell the truth or suffer the consequences. >> yeah, that is absolutely right. every time a witness takes the stand and testifies under oath, they face that solemn obligation.

that will apply to donald trump if he chooses to take the stand and testify in his own defense. >> it's deftly an aspect to you, kate. trump smiled when his lawyers cross-examined his former executive assistant. but if hope hicks takes the stand, will her testimony make trump smile, or will her telling the truth potentially do even more damage? >> i think what we have seen from trump in court is that in this case, he is being very restrained compared to best court appearances. i think even smiling at the witness and seeming like he is coming off professionally in his courtroom is something that they are taking into account. if hope hicks comes up and tells the truth, it seems like based on the way trump is reacting or has reacted that those who are still within kind of the inner circle or within people that he still respects, still appreciates are being treated nicely.

i am curious how he's going to react when people get on the stand who he certainly wants to show that they are not credible, so this would be of stormy daniels testifies or michael cohen testifies. >> joyce, just to put trump's legal week in perspective, monday testimony began in the historic touch money trial. the judge heard a contempt motion of the gag order. wednesday, documents runs the old and the mar-a-lago case and trump was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the elector scheme. thursday, they heard thompson immunity claim while another rejected trump's request for a new trial in the e. jean carroll case . do you get the sense accountability is heading trump's way? >> as you go through all of that, i'm reminded of why we are all in austin. it's an exhausting legal week,

but it doesn't take the same toll on donald trump that i think it takes on many observers and people who believe that this is all headed toward accountability. because donald trump has spun a narrative that is all witchhunt, that is all politically motivated. he continues to say that joe biden is behind all of this, which is ridiculous. joe biden has no control over that district attorney or the state attorney general in arizona. as long as he is permitted to participate in that narrative, there will still be doubt in the minds of some people in this country about whether or not donald trump has done anything wrong. and what hangs over donald trump's head is whether or not he will continue to succeed and delaying proceedings. this case in manhattan is going forward. it's likely unless there is a mistrial that we will see a jury verdict perhaps by les mae. the fate of these other cases hangs in the balance. i will be

watching to see how quickly the supreme court renders a decision in the presidential immunity appeal, because that will determine whether or not there is any possibility of that case, which is singularly important going to trial in washington for -- or rather, in washington before the election takes place. >> you talk about trump loyalist, trump voters, who are listening to tom's rhetoric and thinking it's a witchhunt and all that. the reality is, there's just 12 jurors that are responsible for holding this man accountable right now in this one case, let alone everything else i take through. do you think that point is lost on him somehow if you don't see him reacting certain ways? those 12 are it. a few alternates, six. >> they are. this is a jury of donald trump's peers who will sit in judgment of the evidence that they hear. they will be determining

whether he's guilty or innocent. they will be determining whether the government has proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt or failed to do so. in many ways, this jury is a sit in for all of us, are citizens across the country. as a career prosecutor, 25 years, i have great confidence in the ability of juries of americans to listen to the evidence and reach the correct results. >> they appear to be holding the line in civil cases as trump is trying to meld is world of courtroom and campaign. will the hush money criminal case either one last in front of voters before the election? >> i think we are seeing with these other cases getting delayed that this is likely that this is the last case that voters will see, and i think it likely -- the outcome, whether it be an outcome, a conviction or riddle or possibly even a mistrial is something voters will keep in mind when they

ultimately had to the polls. we will likely get a verdict months before the general election, the one thing that is also important to say is that this is where trump is campaigning right now. he's campaigning in the terminal courthouse. every minute, every day he spends in court is time that he is not getting to campaign outside and travel around the country. you're seeing that he's doing so this week on wednesday in wisconsin and michigan. however, this is all time he's not going to get back. how is going to impact the campaign has yet to be seen. >> it's really all about him, and it's the same thing over and over again. i'm not sure that what he's saying is that a fitting voters and what they nessus early care about, like pocketbook issues. i would ask you guys to stay with me, because we are going to talk about the fight over trump's gag order, less the expectations after the supreme court hearing after immunity claims. we are back in 60 seconds. seco.

any time of the day. what people don't know is that not all dirt is the same. you need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. look at this new organic soil from miracle-gro. everybody should have it. it worked great for us. this is as good as gold in any garden. if people only knew that it really is about the dirt. you're a dirt nerd. huge dirt nerd. i'm proud of it! [ryan laughs]

>> if you say to your child, be home by midnight and your child comes home at 12:30 -- if you don't impose a consequence, is going to keep coming home at 12:30. when judges rule and are very clear about what is permissible and what is not political and there is a direct violation of that rule, there needs to be a consequence or it will continue to happen. i expect judge merchan to issue a sanction. >> a fight on thursday over the limited gag order in the hush money trial. joyce and kate are back with me. his first contempt hearing was heated. the judge scolded him for failing to offer any facts, saying, quote, you are losing all credibility with the court. what is the biggest risk for

trump as he prepares for a second contempt hearing thursday? >> so the biggest risk -- the statute here controls with the judge can do to punish a violation of the gag order, and the biggest risk is 30 days in custody. the judge can't exceed that here. i wouldn't expect him to jump straight, but typically you will see a judge impose graduated sanctions in a case like this. and the judge will maybe start with a fine and admonish the defendant about the consequences if he continues to violate the order. this is a very unusual situation where repeated violations have occurred. the d.a.s office has asked for a second show cause order. i think tim is dead on the money here. either the judge and forces the gag order or trump continues to come home at 12:30 every night. >> prosecutors haven't asked, but secret service went ahead and prepared in the event trump gets thrown in lockout.

did it have any effect on trump? was he rattled by it? >> i certainly think some of the great reporting of my colleagues at the new york times has shown that trump is rattled about the possibility of potentially going to jail. we are ultimately at the end of this trial. prosecutors have yet to ask for that as a sanction here, but they have asked justice marsh on to say that jail time could be possible, that may be he will go with fines initially. but if he continues violating the gag order, that would be a distinct possibility. i certainly think that that could send that now is the time to really be careful about what you say. >> the odds of jack smith putting trump on trial, they appear to be sinking after the

supreme court hearing on trump's immunity claims in his january 6 case. here's what trump ally lindsey graham said today. let's watch. >> i think the court is going to find that presidential immunity exists for president trump like every other president, which is got to be within the scope of being president. i think they will send it back to the lower courts to find out exactly what actions fall within presidential immunity and what are considered personal. i think that's the way this will end. it will be some immunity for some of the actions. >> so joyce, which specific trump actions on january 6 do you think will qualify for immunity? >> first, it's important to say that we don't know where the supreme wart will land on this. mostly because the chief justice was unusually quiet and didn't really give much inclination of where his boat was likely to fall. but if this does come down to the distinction between

official acts and unofficial acts, i think the easiest way to think about that is to decide whether something was an action committed by president trump or an action committed by candidate trump. that line won't be precise unless the supreme court gives, you know, a very precise definition and lays out individual act, which is i don't think what we will see. she may have to hold evidentiary hearings and make decisions about which claims can go to trial and can remain in the indictment for the jury to consider. >> analyst are now saying jack smith faces a really tough call , deciding between trying trump on fewer charges of election interference, or even not at all. but how much can smith pare down the january 6 indictment? >> sure. i think it's possible with his power as the prosecutor to really evaluate what he thinks

could go at this point, and to make that determination, i think that is a very challenging question of what he wants to do now versus potentially after all the appeals -- after all the courts have their say, certainly a challenging decision. he is very in the midst of making it at this point. >> thank you so much. appreciate you both. and coming your way in our next half hour, a closer look at the national enquirer. i'm going to speak of how it brought david pecker and michael coe into the witness stand. a stunning number of tornadoes that touched down in the u.s. this weekend.

i'm jonathan lawson, here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85 and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three p's. what are the three p's? the three p's of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford,

a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 54. what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? also $9.95 a month. i just turned 80. what's my price? $9.95 a month for you too. if you're age 50 to 85, call now about the #1 most popular whole life insurance plan available through the colonial penn program. options start at $9.95 a month. no medical exam, no health questions. your acceptance is guaranteed. and this plan has a guaranteed lifetime rate-lock, so your rate can never go up for any reason. so call now for free information, and you'll also get this free beneficiary planner. and it's yours free just for calling, so call now for free information.

you've got xfinity wifi at home. take it on the go with xfinity mobile. customers now get exclusive access to wifi speed up to a gig in millions of locations. plus, buy one unlimited line and get one free. that's like getting two unlimited lines for twenty dollars a month each for a year. so, ditch the other guys and switch today. buy one line of unlimited, get one free for a year with xfinity mobile! plus, save even more and get an eligible 5g phone on us! visit xfinitymobile.com today. breaking news. today, college students across the u.s. are digging in over there protest of the war in gaza. this as some jewish leaders are

pressuring the biden administration to step up its response to anti-semitic incidents and campus. more than 200 protesters were arrested in four colleges including indiana state university. >> this is something you see on the news. i saw it happen at columbia and i never believed it would happen here implemented in indiana. it was terrifying. >> over 700 pro-palestinian protesters have been arrested on campuses across the country as some colleges and have moved to shut down student encampments and cancel graduation ceremonies. where the protest and the encampment continues. maia, welcome. what does it seem like there today, and where our talks between students and school officials? >> as you can see behind me, there's a lot more activity after today. we are seeing some conservative anti-zionist jewish protesters standing in solidarity with the pro-palestinian student

activist here. negotiations between the administration and the student activist are still ongoing. those conversations are still tense. there's a lot of back and forth and it's a bit of a fragile power play. and this weekend, no media was allowed inside the student encampment, but we were able to see outside of the encampment. we saw students from a range of different backgrounds. we saw food, some greeting circles going on. take a listen to this first- year columbia student. >> i feel like a very vocal minority of students may be have been causing harassment to some of the jewish students, but that's really not the story of all the protest going on. i feel like more consideration should be given to the entire -- the majority of the protesters, and really, the students feel unsafe when they see a lot of the security guards and police and nypd officers all around campus and

all around the entrances. that's what makes students feel unsafe here. >> the other thing we've been seeing is lots of students in cap and gowns taking their graduation photos here at columbia. we know they are also -- that is scheduled for may 15th. we haven't heard from the university if there's going to be any scheduling or location changes. the student encampment is on the west lawn, and the setup is happening around it. there's two different realities happening for the students behind me. the students are demanding that columbia divest from companies with direct ties to the israeli government and are asking for an end to the violence in gaza. we will be watching to see if there is an agreement. >> as you try to get interviews with students, potentially with someone who has felt intimidated, are you able to do that easily, or do you feel that scared to eke out?

>> it has been very difficult. i think a lot of students here are aware of how this story is being covered by the media and are very hesitant to be on camera. we were able to speak to some students about it, but most of them had no interest in being interviewed. >> thank you very much, maia. the best punchlines from the president's big night with the press. the right investment and benefit choices. so you can reach today's financial goals and look forward to a more confident future. voya, well planned, well invested, well protected. >> tech: at safelite, we'll take care of fixing your windshield. but did you know we can take care of your insurance claim? voya, well planned, that means less stress for you. >> woman: thanks. >> tech: my pleasure. have a good one. >> woman: you too. >> tech: schedule today at safelite.com. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪ i wanna hold you forever ♪ hey little bear bear. ♪ ♪

♪ i'm gonna love you forever ♪ ♪ ♪ c'mon, bear. ♪ ♪ ♪ you don't...you don't have to worry... ♪ ♪ be by your side... i'll be there... ♪ ♪ with my arms wrapped around... ♪ to me, harlem is home. but home is also your body. i asked myself, why doesn't pilates exist in harlem? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help. and chase ink was that for me. earn up to 5% cash back on business essentials with the chase ink business cash card from chase for business. make more of what's yours. (woman) ugh, of course it stops loading at the best part. from chase for business. (tony hale) you need verizon. get their crazy powerful network out here, and get six months of disney bundle on them!

(vo) stream with six months of disney bundle on us. and watch it all on the new samsung galaxy s24+, also on us. only on verizon. it's hard to explain what this feels like. ♪♪ moving piles of earth. towing up to 4,000 lbs. cutting millions of blades of grass. nothing compares to experiencing it for yourself. you just have to get in the seat.

president biden is not holding back poking fun at donald trump at the white house correspondents dinner last night. he displayed his sense of humor with many of his jokes taking aim at his predecessor. >> age is an issue. i'm a grown man. running against a six-year-old. trump's speech was so embarrassing, the statue surrendered again.

age is the only thing we have in common. my advice president actually endorses me. donald has had a few tough days recently. you might call it stormy weather. >> joining me now is don calloway, democratic strategist, founder of the democratic voter protection fund and host of the podcast, and msnbc political analyst. good to see you both. susan, what you think of the president's remarks and how are they being received in general? >> i think they were great. i actually think they were probably the funniest of the night, and that his node this at -- >> holland yost. >> thank you. what is important is that he had fun with it. i think that is something that donald trump just could never understand, is that you can

have fun at some things. even though he blasted him untruths social, i think at the end of the day, this is an insiders dinner, so i don't think it will make a big splash with the rest of the country, but his remarks should be taken very well, i think. >> what about you, in terms of how well does trump jokes played in trump world? and let's face it, to donald himself? >> i think they probably played poorly in trump world, nobody in trump world is the audience for the white house correspondents dinner. donald trump said the media is the enemy of the people. while this is a glamorous event and something that everybody in washington, d.c. looks forward to, it's a professional gathering of the media who he declares to be their enemy. he didn't even go his four years because he couldn't take for a moment to the lighthearted ribbing that happens to the president every single year.

i didn't think his set was riotous, but he was there and it was steady, and i think it was the perfect encapsulation of his presidency. >> on friday, president biden made a stop year new york city for a live interview with howard stern, and that's where he discussed several pressing issues. there something that he said that is making headlines. let's take a listen. >> and i tell you a fantasy i have? are you going to debate your opponent? >> i think somewhere, i am. >> that's a big shift from last month when the president said a debate would be contingent on trump's behavior. trump says he is willing to debate president biden anytime, anywhere. so will it happen, and should it? >> by the way, i don't think those two statements will ever cancel each other out. the rnc basically said we will not accept anything from the

national debate condition, which is -- so it will be interesting to see what donald trump does, but there will have to be rules. this is how things get negotiation. i don't think we will see it happen until after the conventions, but there's no reason biden said he had to debate trump. it will be too late to say, no, or under these conditions. i thought his response was right. >> what did you think about how the president did in this particular style of interviewing? as you know, in the past he's been on the breakfast club. is it time to do more in this format ? >> there probably is. howard stern is effectively mainstream media at this point, but it's important to recognize that the podcast generation gets their news from different spaces. they are not watching us, unfortunately. there is a segment in the white house that recognizes there's a

segment they are not watching us. it is insane to talk about a universe in which there would be no presidential debates. because virginia state has been the first to be awarded a presidential debate in the general election by the united states commission on presidential debates. it's a historic moment, but it's a historic moment for hbcus everywhere to show that we are institutions of a similar or not superior part two other schools. it will be unfortunate for donald trump to rob the country of that moment. >> so the campaign trail is providing a very interesting split screen, right? you are president biden in battleground states last week, and at the same time you have donald trump in and out of a criminal courtroom. don, how best can the president take advantage of this opportunity while trump is caught up in his legal lab? >> this is what the ads have got to be focused on.

i have friends who don't think democrats are doing enough. i tell them all the time that the messaging and outreach hasn't happened yet because there's a cycle of campaigning for the presidency. but i think it goes back to the old political adage -- if you stop lying about me, i will start telling the truth about you. all joe biden has to do is tell the truth about donald trump. i would call him the defendant. i would call him the unindicted co-conspirator. in the fortunate thing that joe biden has on his side is that all that is the truth. donald trump is at this point a criminal conspirator, and all joe biden has to do is drive that home into the minds of the american public when people start paying attention in september and october. >> susan, it's clear that transmountain of legal issues taken away from his ability to campaign. but put this in perspective. just how damaging is this for him, or is it, given the audience that he is seeking?

>> it's been a week. it hasn't been that damaging, except for the individuals don referred to, because he's absolutely right. it does say a lot. the biggest challenge, or the thing i'm looking for, is will he be able to keep his composure when this trial goes on? now, donald trump has already paid the victim. he has always blamed others. and frankly, when he campaigns, he only does quick stops into states. he could be campaigning more. he's going out to a couple of states missed week. why wasn't he campaigning this weekend? he could campaign on monday, but the fact is they don't have enough campaign cash on hand to actually hold these rallies. >> interesting. trump's daughter-in-law and rnc co-chair laura trump sent on election day, committee will have both poll watchers and people who can physically handle ballot. how concerning

is the statement given what we saw in 2021 election workers, they were often intimidated and threatened? >> is very concerning. let's be clear. for 40 years now, it's been voter suppression. it appears they've caught up with democrats this cycle inasmuch as they have recognize that point-of-sale is one last opportunity for voter suppression. i have no interest in showing up to my suburban ballot box, nor to my friends in cities have any interest in showing up and seeing a whole bunch of folks who look like proud boys lording over our election spaces, making us feel uncomfortable. that is a form of voter intimidation and that is, per se, a form of voter suppression going all the way back to the days of jim crow. i have no faith that laura trump, who has no idea of what an equitable ballot box looks

like, wanting to put poll watchers there. i have no faith in this, and it is another very clear pillar of the republican voter suppression strategy. >> good to see you both. much appreciated. the story of how and when donald trump become entangled with the national enquirer is next. next. just one pill a day blocks heartburn for a full 24 hours. for one and done heartburn relief, prilosec otc. one pill a day, 24 hours, zero heartburn. (♪♪) hey folks, chris counahan for leaffilter—the permanent gutter solution that protects your home in so many ways, it takes more than one chris to explain it. am i right chris? that's right chris. but together, i think we've got the job covered. like leaffilter has your gutters covered -

keeping out debris, like this. and protecting you from getting up on this thing to clean out your gutters ever again. and our install process keeps your roof warranty in tact. exactly, chris. and you know how else leaffilter protects your home? how's that chris? i don't know, i'm asking you. oh. ah, by redirecting water away from your foundation. sure, and? with our lifetime transferable no clogs warranty. at leaffilter, we stand by our work for as long as you own your home. longer chris. whoa that's huge. how do folks get leaffilter? we'd be glad to come out for a free no-hassle inspection. to schedule your free inspection, call 833-leaffilter today or visit leaffilter.com leaffilter. we're small enough to listen, (together) big enough to deliver.

>> trumps hush money trial is putting renewed attention on

the national enquirer and david pecker, former ceo , and he described how the paper suppressed damaging stories about trump. in 2019, one documentary showed a light on the inquires whole sordid history. >> people don't realize just how creepy the operations are. >> i have the rights to your story. >> never seen again. >> as corrupt as you can be. >> it's the most perfectly placed piece of propaganda in america. >> the most powerful people are changing this narrative at their whim. >> he did something everybody wanted to see. >> were there things done that were outright illegal? maybe. >> there's a lot here to get into. joining me is the director

scandalous, the untold story of the national enquirer. welcome to you, mark. you talked to former employees who said trump was one of the best sources even before he was a candidate. one reporter was assigned as the full-time trump editor and said, quote, trump saw the national enquirer as a megaphone to an audience he did not have. how did he in the paper collaborate over the years to give him that audience? >> that collaboration was extensive and began really as early back as -- and really, at the apex, trump would actually call the paper directly, calling the man who became the sort of de facto trump editor for the paper, call him at all hours of the night and feed him stories, often about himself. in fact, she would call with a pseudonym. he would say he was jon barry calling. and with that feed the paper

all kinds of salacious information that would continue to keep his name in the paper. >> you write that before david pecker, there was the founder of the paper. he came up with a fictional reader called missy smith from kansas city. as we approach 2016, how did missy smith the reader become missy smith the voter? >> pope was a marketing genius. and he understood what he called the mind of the average inquirer reader. which as you say, he named missy smith in kansas city. he knew exactly what she wanted to read, what kind of tidbits of gossip she would share with her girlfriends at the beauty parlor. and he knew this because he had secured real estate at the front end of checkout lines and thousands of grocery stores across the united states.

back in the early 70s, as newsstands are closing around america, he asked himself, where are my readers going to be? the answer was, the supermarket. he identified the space, he custom-designed himself, and then he placed his paper front and center, eye level, so that not only missy smith, but also everyone else would not miss the inquirer. and then he was able to do market research on what stories sold. the weight gain and weight loss sold a lot of papers. any kind of a salacious rumor about rock hudson was selling a lot of papers. oj sold a lot of papers, and on and on. he was determined to guide his editorial staff as to what they would cover. >> this is the way the missy smith person was described. someone who likes a blend of celebrity gossip, health tips,

ufo encounters, human interest dories, and photos of adorable puppies. so now we get to locklin cartwright, who is the executive editor of the national enquirer. he joined my colleagues and explained how he became suspicious there was correct coordination with the trump campaign. take a listen. >> because we are running these coordinated hit pieces. weekend and week out. hillary, six months to live. ted cruz's father is involved in lee harvey oswald. it seemed like there was some type of coordination, and i had no proof to go on. >> look. executive editor, how is it that someone in his position at that paper or tabloid wasn't included in discussions around the full extent of the collusion going on here? >> right. i think the first thing to remember is that this is an inquirer editor talking.

and so you can't always take what his people say as truth. i would say that this practice of catching and killing stories has precedent. i think that this is new information with pecker and trump, but the paper has a long history of doing this. even proceeding, doing with political candidates, it was doing it with celebrities, where editors had these very elaborate -- we know this. relationships with publicists and players to keep negative stories out. the financial transaction that happened, of course. but this has precedent with david tran05 and the schwarzenegger campaign for the governor of california in 2003. this has happened before. the fact that cartwright is shocked, you know, and claiming that he didn't know is stunning

to me. it is stunning to me that anybody at that level of the inquirer didn't know, and frankly, it further supports why we were denied interviews when we made the film. >> currently, they wouldn't give them to you. david testimony has been extremely revealing, then he first gave trump a heads up about a negative story in 1998. and then he killed karen mcdougal's story claiming her month-long affair with donald trump. even though it would have been gold for the paper. even with all you've discovered making your documentary, have you heard anything in testimony that surprised you? >> no, no. this relationship is so symbiotic and really sort of obvious to those sort of digging in. it was obvious what trump was getting from the paper. as you said, he was getting access to middle america and

access to the typical inquirer reader, a megaphone. he was also getting a situation that buried stories about him. the question i always got was, what is pecker getting all of this? and the answer is, really, two fold. one is proximity to power, of course. proximity which began with jfk jr., with the launching of george magazine. he doesn't seem to have party affiliation with david pecker. it's just about how close to political power he could get. arnold schwarzenegger was part of the general leader publications factory, and he required that in 2002. he came with it, and pecker directed his staff to say, schwarzenegger is forbidden fruit. you will not write bad stories about him. he became the governor of california. there's also a financial aspect to this and that ami was floundering around the time that all of this business was happening, and there was the

possibility of investment money coming in, possibly from a sovereign wealth fund. and so packer was courting that at the time. so while these things were happening, it was the sort of perfect storm that made -- that made this make sense for him. and of course, it's speculation, that is sort of what we discovered. >> all right. the documentary, scandalous, the untold story of the national enquirer. people should look it up. it is a couple years old, but it has current relativity today. storm at the brother-in-law of an israeli hostage, held of course by hamas, is going to speak out about a new video released this weekend. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients.

you know, i spend a lot of time thinking about dirt. at three in the morning. any time of the day. what people don't know is that not all dirt is the same. you need dirt with the right kind of nutrients. look at this new organic soil from miracle-gro. everybody should have it. it worked great for us. this is as good as gold in any garden. if people only knew that it really is about the dirt. you're a dirt nerd. huge dirt nerd. i'm proud of it! [ryan laughs] (vo) verizon small business days are here. april 22nd to the 28th. get a free tech check. and special offers. like a free 5g phone, when you switch. no trade-in required. partner with our experts today. when i was your age, we never had anything like this. what? wifi? wifi that works all over the house, even the basement. the basement. so i can finally throw that party... and invite shannon barnes. dream do come true. xfinity gives you reliable wifi with wall-to-wall coverage

on all your devices, even when everyone is online. maybe we'll even get married one day. i wonder what i will be doing? probably still living here with mom and dad. fast reliable speeds right where you need them. that's wall-to-wall wifi with xfinity. breaking news, this just in to msnbc. president biden spoke with israeli prime minister benjamin

netanyahu just a short time ago in a second call this month. this comes as john kirby says israel has agreed to listen to u.s. concerns before launching its planned invasion of -- nbc confirms hamas will send a delegation to cairo for talks tomorrow. the ap reports israel is also sending a delegation. secretary of state anthony blinking to try to restart gaza cease-fire negotiations and pushing the return of hostages held by hamas. meanwhile, hamas released video of two more hostages -- u.s. hostage keith siegel and only neuron. nbc has not been able to independently confirm when and where the video was taken. joining me right now is the brother-in-law of -- who was kidnapped on october 7th. first question to you, how are you and your family doing today after seeing this video?

how does your brother-in-law look and sound to you? >> tonight, here in israel, we were all together yesterday as a family. we were happy in the beginning to see and to feel it, to have a visual proof of life of him. we cannot confirm when the video was taken. by the same time, it was difficult to watch and see how he looks so different. you can see it in his eyes, the spark that he is known for. the smile that he has is gone, and his condition does not seem very well. but it gives us hope that we can continue advocacy work, whether here in israel in order to promote a resolution for the hostage crisis. >> were you given a heads up

that the video is coming? you say you were at the family gathering. did you know what you are going to see? >> we did not know. we gathered after it was published. we actually were on different places. we hurried up to return to where my family is displaced right now in southern israel. and we gathered after this was published as a family. it was very difficult for my sister, of course. to see him, to feel like he is still close, but yet so far. but we actually do not know about the publication of this video, and we were not prepared for it. >> i can't imagine how difficult it is. but we have learned this weekend that hamas is revealing a new proposal for a cease-fire in gaza. it's in response to a hamas proposal that involves a release of hostages.

how do you feel about the efforts to bring the hostages home now? seven months later, why do you think it is taking so long? >> if i can be honest with you, it's been a nightmare following the reports about the negotiations about meeting policymakers and hearing the same four months. i did not think we would reach this milestone where we celebrate passover, a holiday liberation, of exodus of the israelites in egypt and returning to the land. but i do understand that there are complications, because we are dealing with the war. we are dealing with intricate diplomatic negotiations and we have to be realistic that these things are not sold usually so quickly and are prolonged. and stakeholders and a lot of

other different kinds of impacts that you have from the stakeholders. i think israel is doing what it needs to do to negotiate as much as possible. but it is at a crossroad right now, and it needs to decide whether the primary objective is to bring home hostages and perhaps make concessions on other objectives to carry on with other objectives they have in regards to the war in gaza. >> are you in contact, or is the government in contact with you and your family with updates periodically or not? >> we are in contact with the government.