a that does it for me, thanks for watching. i will see you back here next weekend at five p.m. eastern. right now, it is the sunday show with jonathan. ith jonathan campus crackdown, new

clashes as more pro-palestinian protest emerge on college campuses across the country. i will talk with two lawmakers who have met with students on the front lines of the action at columbia university, north mina kimes woman catherine banning, and jerome bowman will join me to discuss what they have heard from students. headed courtroom, with donald trump is really doing during his hush money election interference trial. we were there, in the room where it happened. join me for the inside story. dunking on trump, colin jobst headlined last night's white house correspondent dinner. >> can we acknowledge how refreshing it is to see a president of united dates at an event that does not begin with the bailiff saying "all rise?" this is "the sunday show".

protests against the israel- hamas war are continuing to spread across college campuses and officials are ramping up their response. yesterday, law enforcement arrested more than 200 people at four different universities. so far, pro-palestinian encampments have sprung up at roughly 40 campuses across the u.s. and canada. protesters want their universities to divest from companies that support israel's actions in gaza and, they want a cease-fire. there has been growing concern among jewish students who say that the protest have veered into anti-semitism. the demonstrations have remained largely peaceful, but things were tense earlier today at ucla with dueling protests sparked clashes. join me now from ucla's nbc news correspondent, adrienne

broaddus. what is the scene like right now? >> reporter: the scene has shifted. behind me, you see a line of police. these are campus police and members of law enforcement who formed a line to separate the two groups. there have been clashes throughout the day and the tone has shifted. behind the campus police at the front of the line, behind us, there's extra enforcement just now coming in. you see those members of law enforcement with their shields and other riot gear. now, there has been pushing and shoving throughout the day. there was a protest, a rally planned by members in support of israel, but before that rally even got underway, there were pro-palestinian demonstrators who rushed in and really took over the area that the university officials, here at ucla, created for those folks with the pro israel supporters.

they brought in a big stage, you'll see some of that video with loud speakers, essentially, to silence the pro- palestinian protesters who have been camping out, since thursday. >> do you know how long the protesters plan to stay? >> reporter: we have been asking that question repeatedly, all weekend. the organizers and folks who are sleeping in tents, they tell me they plan to stay until their demands are met. to be quite frank, some of those demands are out of the control of university officials. for example, calling on a cease- fire. they are also asking that the university officials, leaders at ucla, and other campuses across the country divest. they want them to divest their support. back to you. >> adrienne broaddus, thank you. reporting from the ucla campus in los angeles. one of the epicenters of the protest has been columbia

university in new york. joining me now is congresswoman kathy manning of north carolina who met with students at columbia university. she is also the co-chair of the house bipartisan task force for combating anti-semitism. thank you for joining us. what did you hear from students that you spoke with? >> we talked with jewish students who have been harassed, intimidated, and felt like they were unable to walk through the quad to get to classes, to get to the library, trying to study in the library with serious chance and drum beating going on, hour after hour. it made it very difficult for them to study for exams, and not only was there an email from campus rabbis advising them to go home, to stay away from campus, the university actually arranged to have hybrid classes, which was frankly, an acknowledgment of how out of control things have gotten on the campus and how intimidating

this hostile environment has been, which is created by protesters. >> what form did the harassment take? what did they say? >> there were students who were shoved, students who were spat upon, students who were prohibited from going where they were trying to get by protesters forming a human chain. there were also chants and banners, calling for the destruction of the state of israel, calling for the elimination of israelis, from the river to the sea. i think what was most intimidating, to so many students, is these protesters are not calling for a two state solution. they are not calling for the release of hostages. they are protesting in support of a genocidal government, hamas, that invaded israel, slaughtered people, and it is

hamas, of course, that has refused five different settlement offers. they have refused to do cease- fire offers that israel has made. the cease-fire offers have been supported by the united states, so these protests are extremely intimidating, calling for, frankly, the elimination of the state of israel, and no acknowledgment that israel, our democratic ally and the homeland of the jewish people, has a right to exist. >> i'm wondering, the students that you spoke to, did they say , did they have anything to say about the humanitarian crisis in gaza, which, extensively, is what the pro-palestinian protesters say they are all about? >> absolutely. everyone we talked to want there to be more aid brought into the palestinians, they want relief for the palestinian people. they acknowledged that the fastest way to get relief into the palestinian people is for

hamas to release the hostages and surrender. that is the impediment to getting relief into the palestinian people, and frankly, to starting the rebuilding of gaza, if hamas would release the hostages and surrender. >> congresswoman, do you think the anti-semitic chance, or language that you heard, was it coming from so-called outside agitators or student protesters ? >> one of the things that we heard from the jewish students is that the university has refused to go into the encampment to determine who are students and who are outside agitators. although the campus is locked down and you need student i.d. to get in, we were told that there were outside agitators who came through either a gap in the fence, crossed over, or who were actually being let in to different doors of school buildings so that they could come in from the outside and get into the encampments.

there is reason to believe that there are outside agitators among the students. >> one more question, congresswoman. some jewish leaders on the biden administration to step up its response to anti-semitic incidents on college campuses. what exactly could the administration do? >> well, i have introduced a bipartisan, bicameral bill, that would implement much of the biden administration has in its national strategy to combat anti-semitism. my bill would both appoint a national coordinator, in the white house, to make sure that all of the administrative agencies are doing what is necessary to combat anti- semitism. my bill would also appoint a special official in the department of education, who would report directly to the secretary of education, would monitor anti-semitism on college campuses, make students aware of the university's obligations under title vi of the civil rights act and would

make sure that students know that they can file claims of discrimination under title vi. it is a comprehensive bill, and we have bipartisan support, and we have a bipartisan letter that we have sent to the speaker asking him to bring his bill to the floor. >> all right, congresswoman kathy manning of north carolina, thank you for coming to "the sunday show". joining me now to continue this conversation is congressman bowman of new york who visited the encampment at columbia university friday. thank you for joining us . what did you hear from student protesters on friday? >> well, thank you for having me. i visited the encampment and spoke to many of these so- called pro-palestinian protesters, there, and what they reiterated was their demands, and their demands are

the end of the collective punishment, that is taking place right now in gaza. remember, we have 100,000 people either killed or injured during this assault that has been happening in gaza since october 7th. they reiterated those demands to me, and they showed me around the encampment. there was food, there was water, there was coffee, a library, there was departmental help. they shared with me, in terms of ways i can support their peaceful protest. i want to emphasize that, it was completely peaceful when i was there. it's important to note that i met with students who identify as pro-israel, as well. it wasn't just encampment students, there were other students identified as pro- israel and we had a great conversation. i wanted to know, you know, how severe and consistent have you seen instances of anti- semitism? they said those instances were

very rare, in terms of what they have seen and heard, and they said that it was hard for them to differentiate between was it coming from students or outside agitators. that's one point of clarification. no outside agitators were present in the encampment when i was there. many of the students identify as pro-israel and were in the encampment. i wanted to make sure that the conversation was with them as well, to hear the other side. it was a good, collective conversation and i hope to have more conversations with them and i hope there are more conversations with each other, going forward. >> i'm glad that you answered a question i was about to ask you, about, were the only students in the encampment. you got that answer for me, which is yes, only students, no one from the outside of columbia university. i am just wondering, in your conversations with the pro-

palestinian protesters, did they say anything about hamas standing in the way of getting a hostage deal or a cease-fire or anything about the attacks on october 7th? >> that was not part of my conversation, when i was there, though i have seen some of the students interviewed and read their statements, and they condemn the attacks of october 7th. what they are talking about, as what is happening right now and what has been happening prior to october 7th is the continued support of the state of israel and benjamin netanyahu, even though there was a blockade in gaza, prior to october 7th, many human rights organizations have referred to israel as an apartheid state, based on their research and their work, there. also, the military occupation has been in place for several decades, but their demands are

rooted in our continued taxpayer support for the oppression and suppression of the palestinian people. when they call for a free palestine, it's about ending the occupation, ending the so- called apartheid state, and ensuring that there is a pathway to peace and freedom, because not only do we have the continued bombing of gaza, we have famine that is setting in, as well, and it's a nightmare in gaza, as we all know. >> one more question for you. what is your reaction to speaker johnson sang the national guard should be called in of colleges and universities, like columbia, cannot get protest under control? >> i think speaker johnson is disingenuous, in terms of really caring about anti- semitism. he does not care about anti- semitism. he cares about the repression of critical thinking, the repression of independent thought, and the attack on liberal education. that is what he is concerned

with, which aligns with maga across the country, banning books, attacking critical race theory. >> congressman of new york, thank you. >> thank you. coming up, what we are expecting next, which trump's hush money trial set to resume in less than 48 hours did a journalist who was in the courtroom will join us next. some of the best moments, and the most notable jokes, from the white house correspondents dinner. stay with us. hello, ghostbusters. it's doug. we help people customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. we got a bit of a situation. [ metal groans]

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trump falsified business records an effort to sway the 2016 presidential race. these are charges trump has continuously and vigorously denied from the manhattan courthouse hallway. banking executive, gary farrow, will be back on stand tuesday to testify about how michael: paid off stormy daniels. according to the manhattan district attorney, michael: took out a home equity loan to come up with the cast that financed the payments to cover up trump's alleged dalliance. presiding judge, judge merchan, will hold another hearing on gag order . trump has been accused of violating the gag order more than a dozen times, from calling michael cohen a liar to claiming that the jury is "95% democrat ." the website predicts that judge merchan will find trump for his comments, writing "the most difficult question to answer,

however, is whether any finding of contempt and resulting punishment will deter this particular defendant from future violations." joining me now, adam klotz felt, fellow at just security. he was in the courtroom all week . adam, great to see you, thank you for joining us. since you have been inside the courtroom, what is your sense of how the case is going? the mac >> the case got started with a bang, testimony from david pecker. david pecker really gave the case a wide angle lens. we've been hearing about hush money scheme, about michael cohen and stormy daniels , but with david testimony, what we got was a wide-angle lens of a spectrum of ways that donald trump and the national enquirer and their corporate parent joined forces, in david words, to be the eyes and ears of the campaign, to send stories popping up donald trump to the

supermarket checkout stands across america, to attack donald trump's rivals, and to find out if there were, in his own words, women selling stories , and then silencing those women. it takes the case from the keyhole view of yes, falsified records, prosecutors argue that, that were correlated with the stormy daniels payments to a larger spectrum of what they described as a corruption of the 2016 presidential election. >> so, adam, here is how trump describes the trial. >> is a rigged trial. terrible. we know that it's a rigged trial, everybody knows did the case is over. you heard what was said that the case should be over. >> adam, who has said that the case should be over? >> well, there has not been any

legal scholar that has been really saying it in quite the way that trump has, right there. these press conferences happen every morning and there is a very market difference between trump's demeanor outside the court , in clips like the ones you just showed, and what you see in the courtroom. there have been reports, of course, trump nodding off, there have been reports of, and i saw, at one moment, we are now on to the third witness, after the second witness, when her testimony finished, he sort of lunged out of his chair to shake her hand which you are not supposed to do as a criminal defendant. if you look very closely at the transcript, it says, at that moment, the audience could not hear it, but the court reporter did, "are you okay?" there is an impression that he

is trying to put forward to the jury as the witnesses and their testimony. >> so, how is the jury responding to trump's antics inside the courtroom? >> well, they are all business. i will give you one example. the jurors were met with a file into court every morning, they are passing trump a couple feet away. it's not a very large courtroom, especially in the well, and their eyes are, for the most part, fixed forward. we've seen this throughout the trial, there was a moment where the judge asked them if they had writing materials. the folks who, no one did, and asked if they wanted it, their hands all shot up and they have been taking notes. they are very intently scrutinizing the evidence on both sides. they are listening to cross examination and listening to direct examination and they are

jotting down notes. they want to remember things, when we get to deliberation. they are treating it with the professionalism you would expect of a trial of this magnitude. >> one more question for you. one of my guests, yesterday said that he believes judge merchan is using the threat of a gag order ruling to force trump's lawyers to arraign him -- rein him in. what do you think? >> that is a sharp analysis. one of the things i always mention is that trump has already faced consequences even before any ruling has taken place, because we did not, we, the public, and trump's legal team, did not find out who the first witness was until the day before trial. that is because, the judge made clear, that he believed, and the d.a.s office believes, that he cannot be trusted with the

names because he goes and attacks witnesses in the prosecutors claims on social media. there was that fear. that fear has been addressed by the judge taking that sanction. >> adam, thank you for joining us for "the sunday show". >> thank you. up next, with trump using the bible as a moneymaking venture, i am left to wonder why so many white christian americans support someone awash in moral controversy? noted theologian, jim wallace, has a new book that might have the answer and he joins me live, onset, next. don't go anywhere. is some freakin' torque. what? horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. what happened to my inner child craving love and acceptance? how about you love and accept this? p-p-p-p-powershot! when can i drive?

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put the book down and said, "that's not for me." >> that was president biden at last night's white house correspondent dinner, knocking trump's latest business venture. however, the quasi-religious devotion trump commands from his followers is no laughing matter. 67% of white evangelical protestants say they have a favorable view of the disgraced former president along with 51% of white catholics and 47% of white nonevangelical protestants. how can so many christian americans support a man who seems to be the antithesis of everything christianity stands for? my next guest believes he has an answer. jim wallis writes in his new book, "i believe that is central to the answer of why white evangelical supported trump -- is the core issue of race. a white ethnicity and patriarchal culture -- with the

power to keep control -- is more important to many or even most white evangelicals than any gospel they alleged to proclaim." jim wallis joins me now, founding director or of the georgetown university center on faith and justice and author of the new book, "the false white gospel" . jim wallis, thank you for joining us for "the sunday show". so, how did american christianity come to be like -- linked with race in this toxic way? >> as you well know, every nation has their better angels and their worst demons did the worst demons in race run very deep. donald trump is a marker. he is marketing racial grievance. he is marketing our worst demons, isolation. the he brought the bible of so let's bring the bible up.

the bible exposes donald trump and his false white gospel. the bible says you can't talk about immigrants like that. you can't favor the rich over the poor, you can't use racial grievance, racial fears, the trajectory is fear, hate, and violence. that has to be opposed by people who are people of faith. this isn't just a test of democracy, the test of faith, and we have to stand up against the biblical illiteracy of donald trump. >> you save time for practicing christians to help dismantle the false gospel that empathize white the primacy and autocracy. but, how? >> well, we are having conversations across the country . i've been to 12 cities in two weeks, we had crowds of people, and we are having this conversation. i want to have a conversation of the theology of democracy, the spirituality of democracy, not just the politics. we are going to say, how do you

support the bible and have this agenda, which is contrary to what you say in that clip, the idolatry, of a force -- a false god? that's what donald trump is. when you ignore the teachings of jesus, which many people know, even if they are not followers, this is antichrist. he has raised a religious issue . he is using religion. he has a picture of himself in a courtroom, defense table, cartoon jesus beside him, i am being indicted for you. this is something that is blasphemous, the use of religion in this distortion. why don't we take the bible to him and his followers, and let's have debates about the bible all over the country? let's have conversations over the next six months. we are ready to do so and i hope that trump and his followers are, too.

>> do you really think they would accept that challenge? >> i think if they are serious about their faith, they could and they should. they are using a faith argument. i want to have the faith factor be really a conversation for these next several months. let's have the conversation. you cannot use faith and abuse faith and be afraid to talk about it. it is fear. they are promoting fear. i am saying donald trump and his religious supporters are afraid to talk about what the bible says and what jesus taught. they are afraid because i'm going to let jesus do the talking and that is a conversation we really need to have. the >> in the less than a minute we have left, would people finish "the false white gospel", what do you hope they take away from this book? >> we are having these great conversations, but don't leave the conversation here. take the conversation into the streets, to your current nations, have this talk

wherever you are. wherever crowds of people show up. they are taking this out, so let's have a serious conversation about what does the bible say, what did jesus teach, and let's have a conversation where we make the faith factor decisive in this election. >> jim wallis, "the false white gospel" . thank you for joining us. >> you blessed me by having me here. next, my panelists react to the latest news and brand-new remarks from senate minority leader, mitch mcconnell, on today's "meet the press." what he said about trump's fight for immunity from criminal prosecution, after the break. break.

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what do you think, do you think that presidents should be immune from criminal prosecution for actions while they are in office? >> obviously, i don't think that , but it's not up to me to make that decision. the president clearly needs some kind of immunity or he would be in court all the time. >> that was senate minority leader, mitch mcconnell, sharing thoughts on why presidents need some immunity from prosecution. joining me now, we have a democratic strategist and former adviser for the obama campaign, former congressman, and a white house reporter for the washington post. i am coming here to the opinion side of this table, because my face was all scrunched up, because i am confused by what minority leader mcconnell said.

how many presidents have we had? 46? none of them have ever had to worry about this. so, what do you make of what mitch mcconnell had to say? >> he can't stop digging himself a hole. he's aligned himself with trump in a way that's interesting because mitch mcconnell, after january 6th, talked about and shouted down a lot of the tweets and the other things that donald trump did, especially in association with building up, that animus, trying to steal the election. he said he was practically responsible for january 6th, two go from that to where he is today is shocking. it shows how hard and they are against anything progress or democracy and honestly, they don't care. >> wait, i want to play one more scene, so i want to get your remarks, but listen to

what leader mcconnell had to say when he was placed on whether or not he would vote for trump in november. >> and you have said that you endorse former president trump, are you going to vote for him? >> shortly after the assault on the capital, i said that i would support the nominee of the party, whoever that was, and i do. >> and that includes voting for him? >> i said it three years ago. i'm not just making news today, i'm referring back to what i said shortly after the assault on the capital building. >> i am still confused. >> okay, this is mitch mcconnell , but this is the republican party lining up for trump. this is all of them coming home, this should not be shocking, this should not be surprising. it really ought to be a wake-up call to democrats, because i think, sadly, most republicans

are going to get behind him. >> and that creates a problem for the white house. is the white house as concerned? do they think that what joe is talking about is a big problem? do they recognize that? the mac i think there is a prize across the democratic party in the white house that the republicans are falling in line behind former president trump. they fully expected that to happen, though, they would hope that some would have stood by their comments they made after the january 6th insurrection, where they distanced themselves from him, but it wasn't all that competitive. they are aware of that. at the same time, i think that they see some opportunities to try to win over disaffected republicans and some of those people that have expressed continued concern about trump's behavior. we've seen that with nikki haley supporters, with that branch other publican party, that's not the overwhelming part of the party.

we will see that continued outreach. >> of that point, we have the pennsylvania primary last tuesday. nikki haley has not been in the race for more than a month, and she got a big chunk of the republican primary vote. does that not speak to something they were alluding to, that the biden campaign sees as an opportunity, in an election that will be decided on the margins? those people that are voting for nikki haley, that the biden folks could take off? >> the calendar does not benefit donald j trump. that primary was held while he is still in court. more people are seeing him in the courtroom, so the harder it and then going to be to have folks who might have been acknowledging he's the republican nominee that is what

it is to move toward something else. they might not have been in the camp for joe biden but they know that donald trump is a problem. >> i would hope the biden campaign has been in touch with liz cheney and chris christie, but i worry that they haven't and i worry that they are not aggressively enough going after these republicans who really don't want to vote for trump. >> you are covering the white house, and not a campaign, but in the course of your reporting, have you picked up anything that would allay joe's concerns? >> i devote the biden white house in the campaign, there's a lot, but i do think that we have heard concerns from those republicans that are not supporting donald trump, that they had not had outreach from the biden campaign. i think their emissaries from biden world trying to do some of that outreach to the donors in the republican class that are not supporting donald trump, but we saw outreach.

there's hope that that will come, but we are talking about those results, whether or not those people, they are going to deal with some of those challenges, and committed in this primaries against the president's handling of the war in israel and gaza. there is an opportunity, but it depends on the outreach the campaign and the president himself, what his message is as he closes his campaign and how many inroads he's able to make with those voters that could decide this. >> we will have much more to get to with my panel after the break including some of the biggest highlights from the white house correspondents dinner. >> i'm not saying both candidates are old, but you know jimmy carter is out there thinking, i could maybe win

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back with me, the former congressman, and tyler pager. i want to play a couple sound bites from last night white house correspondents dinner. the first, well, just play with the president had to say about stormy daniels, and then the next one is about "sleepy joe."

>> you might call trump's last few days "stormy weather." >> age is the only thing we have in common. >> it's after 10:00, sleepy joe is still awake. donald trump has spent the past week falling asleep in court every morning. fox news said he was just being "anti-work." >> so, what i found interesting about last night, obviously, colin jones was going to go after donald trump by name and hammer him with jokes. what was, i guess it should not have been surprising, but the president, going after donald trump by name, from the very

beginning, he did his own " sleepy joe" joke in the opening seconds of his remarks. what's the strategy behind that speech? >> we have seen a gradual change from the president. it started with the state of the union where he unburdened himself from some of the political tracking's, did not attack trump by name, but made it clear who he was talking about and delivered a political state of the union address. coming out of that over the last few weeks, he has put trump's name into everything and has attacked them not just on policy, but is trying to get under his skin. the president knows that was a highly watched speech and it's one of those that breaks through in a way his normal appearances don't. i think that they wanted to show him vigorous, that he could take a joke, but wanted to hit hard at that contrast, that they feel like they have a good story to tell.

the president is out there, awake at night, and can crack some jokes. >> what i thought, well, in my own way, i gasped when i heard the "stormy weather" joke because that is the closest i've heard the president even address the court situation that his predecessor finds himself in. the mac you're not the only one. i think that joke was hilarious, the timing was amazing, it showcased that the president is not afraid to take a punch. to the point you made, throughout this campaign cycle, there's been a shift in part because there has to be a show of strength from president biden. donald trump has no problem throwing grenades at everybody. for biden, he has to show that strength in the energy in his campaign and there are a lot of people who don't want to see trump again but want to see biden possess a certain level of strength. >> that's it. biden has one obstacle. voters

want to see he's up to it. i love that he goes after trump. trump is a jerk, trump is cruel. biden rightly believes that trump is unfit, so say it. call him out by name. it's the double whammy of, it shows the voters that biden can do it, but it's one thing -- it's one thing to stand there in black tie at an event that is a roast, an event where it's all about the comedy, and can you in the joke, and it's another to say those things at an actual campaign event. >> you should. he should replicate that joke on the campaign trail. >> i don't know about the joking, blend in some humor, but go after trump by name. he is unfit, go after every aspect of that. >> that's the strategy, increasingly, that they want to make this a clear choice. there are two candidates that have plausible pathways to the nomination, the presidency, ignoring the party, it's about biden or trump.

they want to make that binary choice clear to voters and i think we are going to continue to see a more aggressive amount of fighting, as aggressive as he can get, against trump to make that clear to voters. >> absolutely. biden has to create and paint this narrative because we cannot assume the average voter is watching wall-to-wall coverage of what went on at trial. he has to be able to go out there and say what it is, call him by name, and shame him. people are looking for it. >> tyler, where is he going next? >> they don't announce his travel all that much in advance , we can expect him to spend a lot of time in the states that, you know, we expect, battleground states, pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, arizona, georgia, et cetera. this week i think we will see him in the mid-atlantic, pennsylvania, but he is trying to get out on the road and trying to, especially as trump is in the court, it's a huge

difference. the former president is in court and the current president is talking to voters. >> 32nd flats, this just hit me, the operatives with an abortion amendment thing happening in florida, would it be, is it fools gold for democrats to think oh my god, we can flip florida, the president can win florida in november? mac i would say no idea. >> that may be a fools gold, but there are areas where there is a basis of progress. the rnc has stuck its championship be on florida and i don't see that happening for florida to be in play, they would be more groundwork. >> okay. we've got time. thank you for joining us for "the sunday show". we are back with more of "the sunday show" on msnbc.

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