when it comes to

authoritarianism, it takes one to know one. the evidence before us that must be taken seriously if we wanted to remain a democracy. congresswoman katie porter is taking congress to school, and tonight, she's here to do the same as the u.s. continues to send more weapons to israel. peter welch is one of two democratic senators to rule against the aid bill to israel, ukraine, and taiwan and will explain why. let's do it. as donald trump sat in a new york courtroom, he was getting support from a familiar friend overseas, who took the stage at the c pack conference to tout his authoritarian agenda, which included notable maga allies like carrie lake, the back ramaswamy, and a message from trump himself.

in his speech, he told the crowd that conservatives across the west, including himself and trump, are under attack by hegemonic liberal order. he said that upcoming elections in november will be a chance for americans to usher in a "era of sovereignty modeled on hungary," you know, a country who has ostracized immigrants, marginalized lgbtq people, transformed the free press into a conservative media ecosystem, and staff the public prosecutor's office with loyalists. it's a country that orb on himself rightly declared "a liberal state." "for america c pack, hungary is a window into the sort of society we could become if donald trump, who has praised the dictatorial leadership, is re-elected this fall. " this week, the same week as the pack hungary, we saw several developments at home

that highlight the ex- president's authoritarian ambitions, many of which went under the radar, barely got a mention. the wall street journal reported that trump allies are drafting proposals to erode the federal reserve's autonomy and allowed trump to be consulted on interest rate decisions. the fed is a traditionally independent institution in this country. this would also give trump the opportunity to oust the fed chair, someone he has long hated, and replace them with a loyalist. that strategy is part of project 2025. it's the second term plan put together by trump's far right allies to "that the administered estate from within by ousting federal employees that they believe are standing in the way of the president's agenda, and replacing them with like-minded officials more eager to fulfill a new executives approach to governing. " he's listed his most trusted -- trusted loyalist. here is what his daughter-in-law and rnc

co-chair promised last week. >> the gloves are off. there are no holds barred, here. he's full throttle, he's not worried about winning another election. it's four years of scorched earth when donald trump retakes the white house. >> four years of scorched earth. get this, according to axis, trump's adult children, the dynamic duo of don and eric, well, they have new titles on their dads team. they will be so-called "loyalty czars," making sure that staff jobs in a second trump term are filled with sycophants, getting rid of anyone who dares to dissent. this culminated at the supreme court thursday when donald trump's lawyers argued that trump, while carrying out official acts should have immunity for virtually all criminal prosecution. it's an attempt to get his federal election interference case dismissed and it's an argument that conservatives, justices, are actually taking

seriously. the atlantics arguing that many observers fear that immunity, no matter how the majority tries to limit it, would embolden a re-elected trump to barrel through constraints of custom and law in pursuing his self-described agenda of retribution. regardless of how the court rules, the damage to our country may already have been done. to quote nyu history professor and friend of the show, "whatever the court does, having this case heard and the idea of having immunity for a military coup taken seriously by being debated is a big victory in the information war that maga and allies wage alongside legal battles. authoritarian specialized in normalizing extreme ideas." >> let's welcome in our all- star panel. great to have you with us.

david, what did you make of ruth's comments, the fact that the court is already hearing this, is that a troubling sign any big victory for the meg world -- maga world that can feel emboldened by the perception of literacy -- legitimacy? >> i think that's an understatement. it was baffling to me what they were able to say with a straight face. i was wondering, okay, lawyers get paid to make crazy arguments but this goes beyond that. let's put it in perspective. there is no case that deals with criminal immunity for a president, because we never needed one before. it's crazy that you can make the argument that hang on a second, we need to know the limits in regard to crime that the president can commit and not be held accountable for while in office. the case they kept signing, nixon versus fitzgerald, was a whistleblower case. someone was fired because the testimony he gave before congress, he said nixon fired me because he didn't like my

testimony, and that's the case being used to make the argument. anon, if you can't sue the president, you can send him to jail because sometimes they do things that are just part of the job. the supreme court will define when this will apply, when it won't, and if you're wondering what the consequences will be, look at how far outside the line former president trump is already stepping in his case in new york. anyone else would be behind bars for his behavior but right now, he is still free , waiting on the duration of this trial. >> there's a moment in oral arguments where the lawyer was basically asked if donald trump would be allowed to kill a political opponent. i think we've all heard that and he was saying yes, the killing of your political opponent could be perceived as an official act depending on the circumstances. i really wish one of the justices would have said, are you saying that joe biden right now, as president, could kill donald trump because he

believes that he is corrupt or is a dangerous threat to our society and be considered in his official acts? i would think that trump lawyer would say no, he would not be allowed to do that. the mac i would think so. you would think that the justices at some point would say, come on, now. you can't possibly believe that the believable argument, right? it's when election is him starts to trump common sense and it reminds me of that quote, it's a joke, so some of my friends or professors will get mad at saying, those who can't do, teach, and those who can't teach, teach jim? sometimes it seems like we have gym teachers in the legal community presiding on that. no common sense about that function. >> that is a scary thought. you are next word on the rise of autocracies in a legal sense and how they co-opt a legitimate legal system or enterprise to bring out their authoritarianism.

what about this willingness to take this seriously, what does that say to you? you've probably seen this unfold in nondemocratic countries, but think about democratic countries like turkey and hungary, where people are elected and then they manipulate the system. >> one of the things that happens when autocrats get a lot it is the first thing they try to do is co-opt the courts. packing the highest courts with their own allies is very common as an autocratic strategy. one thing the world saw this week as we all listened to what the supreme court was asking and the case before us is, are we living with a packed supreme court? the way that many of the judges got onto this court were not exactly normal in the historical, grand scheme of things. the procedures were manipulated, judges got onto the court that probably would not have gotten on if everyone was following the norms that were in place

beforehand. this is the kind of thing you see, elsewhere. you mentioned turkey and hungary and both were cases where as soon as they were elected, they started playing games with the high court and they expanded the number of judges, they put their own loyalists on the bench, and once they did, they knew that everything they did would be declared constitutional, because the criteria for getting onto those courts was that you would say that everything that those leaders did was constitutional. so, how far are we from that? this last week, it seems not far. >> it's really important and it's partly why i wanted to ask how we prevent that from happening be on the ballot box. i mentioned that trump's plan is to strip the federal reserve of its independence. the latest in a string of changes that trump and his allies are planning, part of the so-called project 2025. are there any legal pathways

for people to push back against these ambitions right now? is there something president biden can do? it's probably too late, but could there have been something done to make sure something like trump does not return to office? >> obviously, the ballot box will be the crucial one. the biden administration has been getting ahead of these plans to take over the federal bureaucracy. the biden administration just got through the office of personnel management, a regulation that will make it much more difficult to reclassify civil service employees as at will employees. this is behind the project 2025, it's the main precursor to everything they want to do. basically, what they would like to do is reclassify, upwards of 50,000 civil service jobs as at will employee jobs, meaning they cannot be fired for any

particular reason and then to replace this people with political appointees. that is what was behind this. at the biden role makes it more difficult to do. they could start a new rule, they can process the whole thing, all over again, but i think that dictatorship day one is not the thing that will happen because of the biden role. the fed is even more insulated than some of the other agencies and it's important to keep their eyes on the ball but that's not the easiest one. >> david, i know you are the legal analyst, but i have to get your opinion on trump in listing his children to serve as a key adviser and loyalty. you've dealt with criminal enterprises before, were you stack the organization with your most loyal members, your family. is there a danger with trump trying to keep it all in the family like this? >> it's going to be four years

of scorched earth, you have to take that at your word. if that is your claim to be the best way to run the government, one of the challenges people have a hard time accepting with the law is that it basically assumes everybody is going to walk inside the lines, or color inside the lines, to a degree. in the decade i spent as a prosecutor, sometimes i find myself thinking, man, this person confessed on video. are they going to show up for trial? than they do. this person got convicted, and the only sentence they can serve his jail, are they actually going to show up for sentencing? yes, they do. when you have someone who says, you know what, i'm going to push it and see how far i can go, the law is not equipped to deal with something like that. take a look at new york. you have a gag order that says, don't make statements to the press, threatening members of my staff, but think about how basic that is. don't threaten my staff, me, jurors, or witnesses. that shouldn't need to be said.

you have a former president who says all they can do is find the $1000 per violation. i can afford that's i'm doing it anyway. someone with that attitude, combined with everything you just posed, yes. we all have reason for concern, especially given who he is appointing to look over this process. >> i'll say it again, our system is being stress tested in a way we've never seen before and it's a dangerous moment as to whether or not it can withstand the stress it's under at this moment. thank you for joining us. greatly appreciated, as always. next, a recent briefing this congresswoman received from the state department on funding for israeli military including those implicated in human rights violations. pilat? so i started my own studio. getting a brick and mortar in new york is not easy. chase ink has supported us from studio one to studio three. when you start small, you need some big help.

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increase humanitarian assistance into gaza. biden repeated warnings against an israeli invasion of rafah . this comes as the u.s. ways whether it should restrict aid to an israeli military unit after determining it was one of three credibly implicated in gross human rights violations against palestinians. that was prior to october 7th. in an update later, obtained by nbc news, secretary of state, antony blinken wrote to speaker mike johnson that it was under review. two other units will continue to receive military assistance is my concerns because the u.s. said it was given assurances from the israeli government. joining us that is democratic congressman of california katie warner who sits on the oversight committee. good to see you. to my understanding, you are one of two members of congress to receive an individual briefing from officials at the state department about aid to these israeli military units, however, friday's news about the three israeli groups, or

battalions, if you will, accused of human rights abuses, contradicted what you were told in your briefing. am i getting that right? >> absolutely. to start at the beginning, for everyone watching, as a taxpaying resident and american, when we use taxpayer dollars to give aid to any country, military aid, we do not want those weapons, which are being provided, to engage in gross violations of human rights. we are talking about terrible things, murder, kidnapping, sexual assault. for most countries, there's a pretty straightforward process before that aid is given. the state department that the individual unit, the battalion, and if there's any credible evidence of a gross violation of human rights, the aid does not go. but, israel has a different process, and that is what i requested and received the state department briefing on. we found out this week, after i

heard all about the process and got assurances that it was working, in fact, it is not. the state department employees sent up evidence of gross violations of human rights that israel has not remediated, has not held people accountable for, and where have those memos been sitting? with the secretary of state. there are real questions about that, being used as intended. >> do you have any reason why they are not acting on it? what's your understanding as to why these memos are just sitting there with these accusations or evidence of accusations and gross human rights violations and not being acted on? >> that's exactly the right question that congress now needs to be asking. we need to be asking what happened, here. we already had a lot of concerns and i had many concerns

, of the vetting for him -- vetting form that is supposed to stop aid from going to those who have engaged in human rights violations, but what we were told is that after all of this extended process, that israel was given a chance to address the violations, to hold people accountable, when it goes up to the secretary with the recommendation of all these different departments, then, aid must stop. what is not clear is what is happening at the state department and who may be implicated? >> the short answer is yes, but i guess, are your colleagues in line with what you've outlined? d5 you have support for them to do their job and exercise oversight over the implication of violating the law? >> this process, particularly with regard to israel and a

handful of other countries has been shrouded with mystery. a dozen other countries have this different, separate process and that is not well known by may colleagues in congress. we had a hearing, there's a lot of work that can be done along with colleagues who worked on this issue, to educate congress members that the process that we are told is working is in fact not working, and because we set up a special process for israel, we have a duty to investigate whether or not that is working. here, it appears it may not be. the mac if not, what should happen? >> under these laws, the remedy is if a military unit, it could

be at an individual level, it could be the battalion or unit level, we talk about military units. it is supposed to happen, the law is clear, if a gross violation has been committed, and the country has not held those perpetrators responsible, then aid to that unit must not go. it must not be received. the u.s. cannot send it. the administration is to follow this rule for these units, just like we do for other countries that we have found have engaged in gross human rights violations were perpetrators are not held accountable. >> i wanted to get your take on how all of this is playing out in the united states, specifically with growing pro- palestinian protest movements across college campuses. it's safe to say that will most of the criticism has been coming from the right, there are some members of your party who have attacked them, including people

like the congressman who equated the protest with white supremacist rallies. i want to give you a chance to comment on how you see what is playing out on college campuses and, the generalizations, as terrorist sympathizers. >> look, i think when we have any social movement, any protest, it will attract a lot of different people. i think that the goal is that americans have a right to be heard, but students on campuses have a right to be free from discrimination as well as the right to be able to get to and from their class's. i was a college professor before i ran for congress and these issues around free speech on campuses, balanced against making sure every student can

get an education and be free from discrimination are tough issues. i think that the thing that is good for our country that we should not lose sight of, despite how and -- how unsettling and difficult this is, is that it's important that young people are paying attention to what's happening in the world. at the most fundamental level, i don't think we ought to be discouraging them from engaging in having an opinion but we do need to educate them on the limits of how to express that opinion. >> congresswoman, thank you for joining us. next, we speak to senator about his decision to vote against the new foreign aid package. what? horsepower keeps you going, but torque gets you going. what happened to my inner child craving love and acceptance? how about you love and accept this? p-p-p-p-powershot!

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there is a stark split screen in this country, as antiwar palestinian protest spread throughout college campuses is students demand the

schools divest from companies with connections to israel. president biden signed another multibillion-dollar aid bill that helps the israeli government. the national security supplemental bill is part of a larger aid package which includes ukraine and taiwan but notably, includes $14 billion in unconditional military aid for israel. the keyword is unconditional. peter welch has been outspoken about u.s. support for israel and voted against the bill and says "as i have said countless times, sending prime minster benjamin netanyahu's government the munitions is using to destroy gaza is wrong and inconsistent with our own foreign policy goals." it's the second time welch is voted against in a packaged israel. the senator is with me now. great to have you, thank you . i wanted to start with your decision to vote against this aid. it's a very unpopular decision, politically. why was it important for you to

send this message to president biden and your party and others? >> well, two reasons. i mean, i want to start out by acknowledging the horror that israel experienced with the attack on october 7th, but two things. number one, so many palestinian lives have been lost and the bombing has been described -- indiscriminate. we cannot to be behind this. this will make things worse and we cannot have our bombs be killing innocent palestinians. that's number one. number two, this is a long-term objective that creates enormous instability in the middle east, with its complicity with israel and the indiscriminate attacks on palestinians. it's creating enormous risk to our situation, geopolitically.

if destabilizing the middle east. number one, humanitarian reasons, and number two, our own national security reasons. we have to have a better policy. we, of all people, should know this. after 9/11, we got attacked. we had a right to respond. we overdid it, in the long run. let's hope that israel can learn from some of the lessons we should have learned. >> why do you think it is this administration and this congress are not seeing it the same way that you are? why do you think israel is being held to a different standard? we were talking to katie porter, where there have been tremendous concerns within the state department that the israeli military is violating human rights abuses, even violating our only heloc, but at the same time, billions of dollars keep getting sent to israel with no conditions or strings attached? >> two reasons. there is a deep-seated respect

and acknowledgment of what the jewish people suffered with the holocaust. that is deeply embedded, i think. but, there is a different situation in the middle east now, where israel had been faced with nationstates that want to destroy it, to kill israel and jewish people. that is deeply embedded in the israeli psyche, understandably, and president biden's orientation. the israel of today is really strong in respect to the nationstates around it. they have established, good relationships with israel. what israel has failed to do is deal with the legitimate aspirations of the palestinians in the west bank and in gaza. benjamin netanyahu, as we know, actually was supportive of hamas getting money from qatar.

he, as we know, has actually supported a one state solution with more settlements in the west bank and violence toward many innocent palestinians, there. there is a total change in the circumstances between the israel, post-holocaust, that all of us, myself included, and the aspiration of democratic and jewish state of israel, but not the benjamin netanyahu israel that is expanding, exponentially, the settlements in the west bank and was complicit, actually, with qatar and trying to have hamas be a counter to the ability of a peaceful resolution of a two state solution. >> do you think, if you were able to speak to president biden, what do you think you could convey to him to change course, not only just for, as

you outlined, these reasons, humanitarian and strategic 40 national security, but the concern i had of november elections that there is a big movement in this country that is antiwar and perhaps not as enthused about reporting these current policies? >> what i would urge is for the president to move from his verbal support, to have israel stop and indiscriminate military attack on gaza, which is resulting in humanitarian catastrophe, and turned his verbal support for the palestinians into explicit support for policies to stand up to benjamin netanyahu's continued assault on innocent palace indians, number one. two, i think we have to ask ourselves a question. how can we be part of having our 2000 pound bombs be dropped

on a 10 story apartment building , because there might be a hamas person in the second or third floor and the results of that bomb is going to be to kill children, to kill innocent palestinians? we cannot be part of that. so, we have to step up and stand for what has been our traditional support for the democratic support of jewish and the democratic state in israel, but also, we can't have long-term peace if we don't have a two state solution that acknowledges the legitimate aspirations of palestinians. >> senator, we hope you get time with the president to convey that to him because i think we can all agree that something has to change with what is taking place on the ground, to bring an end to the war. senator, thank you for joining us. next, unthinkable

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any hope from the biden administration that israel would conduct an independent thorough investigation into the new mass graves discovered in gaza has all but faded. local authorities in gaza say they found nearly 400 bodies across three graves at a medical complex in gaza city, two months after israeli forces withdrew from that half. at a recent press conference, civil defense officials say they saw signs of torture on the bodies and some were children younger than 13. >> now, gazan authorities say

that mass graves were dug on the hospital grounds before in israeli raid in february, but do accuse israel of digging up the site to add bodies. two weeks ago, similar graves holding at least 380 bodies were uncovered at a hospital according to a gaza civil defense spokesperson who spoke with cnn. that hospital was left in ruins after this month's raid by the israeli military. forces deny allegations that they buried bodies while operating at his house rules, but did say that they did open the site to check for remains of hostages that may have been buried there. this is all leading to growing calls from amnesty international , the european union, and united nations for an independent investigation. the biden administration has stopped short of asking for the same. >> we think this does need to be thoroughly investigated, but we continue to see additional information from the government of israel. we believe that through a

thorough investigation, we can get additional answers. we are hoping to continue to get more information from a government of israel. >> the day after that interview, or that press conference, the israeli military spokesperson said there's nothing to investigate, "we gave answers, we don't bury people in mass graves. not something we do." joining me now is the executive director at amnesty international, usa. thank you for joining us. amnesty international has underscored the urgency for immediate access of human rights investigators into gaza. let's talk about time. how crucial is timing in these scenarios, to be able to answer the questions that we all have right now? >> good question. time is crucial now and has been for the last six months, in which the united states has refused to demand a space for independent investigations to

preserve evidence, to make sure that there is forensic analysis of that evidence, so that proper medical experts can do the right kinds of analysis of the dna and determine whether war crimes have been committed. every day that passes, with that kind of independent investigation not happening, is a day that makes it harder to find out what really happened. >> do you know who is preventing the independent investigation? obviously on the ground, israel and egypt control access in and out of gaza, but what are they telling the international community and organizations like yours and others who want to potentially forensically investigate this? >> this is been the issue. the government of israel is responsible for all of the human rights conditions on the ground as an occupation force. they are preventing journalists , independent actors, the united nations, and others to engage in an independent investigation and the response of the united states is to just

ask the government of israel to do its own investigation and receiver that goes. ultimately, the responsibility falls on the government of israel, but it is a problem for the human rights community, that the united states refuses to use as leverage to insist on independent investigations. >> can you break down the potential violations of international law? according to the rome statute, the desecration or mutilation of dead bodies is a war crime, but what are the actual violations that you and other organizations are concerned may have been violated at the siege at these hospitals? >> yes, you have to start at a point where this began, which is, you have medical facilities which are supposed to be treated with a very different standard when it comes to literary exercise and judicial restraint. the government of israel was explicit, when it went into both of these hospitals and

engaged directly in hostilities in medical facilities where civilians were present, and they claim that these people they killed were hamas resistance fighters. we cannot determine whether that is true because we cannot get to the bodies. we do know that we are hearing some of those bodies were women, the elderly, they were hand-tied. we are deeply concerned that these claims are simply not true . as you have said, what we have been seeing over the last months is indiscriminate attacks using forms of weaponry and forms of military engagement that simply do not protect civilians. we have no reason to believe that they were protected in this case. we can't determine the actual facts until we have an investigation. using indiscriminate attacks, forcibly displacing people, killing civilians, children, these are all were crimes that

verified -- if verified, need to be prosecuted. >> israeli officials denied allegations of mass graves and had maintained that they have been acting in accordance with international humanitarian law. does your organization believe that to be true based on what you've seen? >> no. we've made very clear assertions from what we have been able to determine on the ground and we have forensic asked it's on the ground to have determined that u.s. weaponry has been used in attacks that have killed families of civilians. we can still see, today, munitions all over gaza that have been used indiscriminately. we know that were crimes have already occurred. we are very concerned right now that the forced displacement of populations and the restriction of the necessary supplies, for people to feed themselves, the fact that they are now in fragile tents, and increasingly

in the hot and unsustainable environments, these all amount to transgressions of international humanitarian and human rights law and it's the responsibility of the government of israel to adhere to that law. yes, they make those claims but we don't believe them. >> let me ask you, if i can, but the protest on college campuses in america. amnesty international has urged university administrators to respect and protect students rights to protest. what are you concerned about, as we see hundreds of police forces deployed the college campuses, and disturbing images of, you know, over militarized police cracking down on protesters? >> yeah. u.s. college campuses are one of the sanctuaries of free speech. it's the place, often, where we hear first, and most forthrightly, what the issues of principle and morality are, the values we claim to adhere to, and the fact that that largely peaceful protest is

being shut down with over use of force, administrators bringing in armed police, the tactics that are being used, is deeply concerning to us. so, we have spoken out about it. i have reached out directly to the heads of universities, asking them to restrain themselves, and to adhere to human rights values, and we are worried it will get worse before it gets better. that's not to excuse some of the comments we've seen from some actors, but in the main, from everything we've seen, the vast majority of protest is our peaceful and are calling for restraint and the use of the united states influence on israel to adhere to human rights values. we agree with that. >> amnesty international u.s. a executive director, thank you for joining us . greatly appreciated. next, the university of southern california cancels its commencement after protest. will other campuses now follow

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and we'll send you this st. jude t-shirt that you can proudly wear to show your support. tiffany: anybody and everybody that contributes anything to this place, no matter if it's a big business or just the grandmother that donates once a month, they are changing people's lives. and that's a big deal. [music playing] last weekend on "ayman", i spoke with the usc valedictorian. her commencement speech had just been canceled after pro- israel groups raise concerns over social media post import of palestinians. university said the decision had nothing to do with freedom of speech did not elaborate on the safety concerns that they say motivated the decision. in my conversation with her, she made a point that bears

repeating. >> my class has worked so hard for graduation and i know that we deserve a commence that is true to the work that we have put in. i think it's also a factor to know, most of us are from the high school class of 2020. we did not receive our high school graduation, either. for this to also be the not traditional commencement we've been looking forward to and for some of us, it's one of the biggest moments of our lives. it is honestly so tough, and i think that everyone is on the same page about wanting to celebrate and wanting to have fun for the work that we've done so far. >> within days of the interview, usc canceled its main commencement ceremony, once again citing safety concerns, saying it would take too long to carry out the safety process for the roughly 65,000 people expected to attend . the question before us, will other schools follow this lead? will they call are celebrating

one of life's most biggest achievements because others exercise their right to free speech and assembly? officials believe that protest and commencement can coexist to the university will have a designated area for protest outside the venue. columbia is prioritizing campus safety as they prepare for what they call a cherished, annual celebration. here is what columbia's student body told nbc news. the mac i'm hopeful we will still have a graduation. i am not sure what it will look like. it might be on campus, it might be elsewhere. >> canceling commencement ceremonies, especially this year, with this generation, were forcing history to review -- to repeat itself. if that happens, nbc news will

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in just a few minutes the premiere of the new document "commitment to life" highlighting the role that los angeles played in the height of the hiv and aids epidemic. here is a preview. growing up in the gay

community we learned a lesson about not planning our lives. the lesson was that, we knew we had to take care of each other. we looked at this desperate situation and felt something needed to be done. ♪. aids project los angeles was the first agency to be formed in los angeles county to respond to aids. >> we just had these meetings in our living room. and that was how it all started being organized. >> nancy is on the board of director of the aids project los angeles. >> i hate aids. i hate the disease, i hate aids, i hate the fact that no one has been able to reel get a grip on what this is and how to stop it. >> if you can not catch it tonight, commitment to life is streaming on peacock, make sure to watch it at any time. this is it for us this weekend. catch us each saturday and sunday at 7:00 p.m. eastern, follow